Why do atheists and agnostics .....

Yes it is true that people in positions of power have used religion as an excuse to commit atrocities but such people will always find some excuse. There is however, a body of atheists that attack religion not for the reasons you cite but for their own reasons of more dubious nature. all the best urban

If a particular religion is encouraging people to behave contrary to the laws of morality, that religion is dangerous. But what about those religions who clothe the naked, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, rebuild communities that have been destroyed by natural disasters, etc. Do you consider them dangerous? Are the Scriptures really unprovable or do you just not want them to be the truth? There are many websites regarding the accuracy of the Bible. Check out the archaeological discoveries that have proven many biblical claims. What are the historical inaccuracies of the Bible? What is provable is the way in which these writings have been variously excluded and included and excluded again, rewritten, poorly translated, and the ontologically ludicrous nature of their claims. -- Then prove it. Some people think that because the Bible talks about the way the world was during those times it means God either caused those actions or at least endorses them. That's not necessarily the case. Before you condemn too quickly, you need to do an in-debt study of the Bible. I will confess that many religious people forget that we're to speak the truth in love, but speaking the truth is necessary if we care anything about our fellow man and eternity. Since the Bible has been removed from all arenas except the church, things like compassion, morality, ethics, and decency seem to have been relegated to the back burner.

I'm and Agnostic/Darwinist. I believe that there could be a God out there and that there might be, but I believe that if there is, that God is omnipresent. I don't believe in religions because I believe that they were created just to control masses of people, but if other people want to be religious, then I have no problem with it as long as you don't force your beliefs on me. I believe that people should be allowed to believe in whatever they want to believe in, but I think that it is just wrong to force your beliefs onto other people.

You said, "What is provable is the overall historical inaccuracy of Biblical writings, whatever occasional things they get right. What is provable is the way in which these writings have been variously excluded and included and excluded again, rewritten, poorly translated, and the ontologically ludicrous nature of their claims." Could you give examples?

I do so because the belief in scripturally-based religion is possibly the most dangerous obsession in the world, perhaps second only to the love of money. Wrong, the most dangerous obsession in the world is to think that you are right and the rest of the people are wrong and to try to force them to accept your beliefs. Compassion, morality, ethics, and decency are not in any way reliant on religious teachings, but derive from the innate decency and goodness of the people who have these attributes, regardless of a belief in God or scripture. All these terms are empty words, they don`t mean anything outside our own civilization and they are built mostly on religious basis. The anarchist and the egoist are very logical.The rest are indoctrinated sheep just like the religious people. Why do they attack religion ? Here on mylot they are doing it to earn a couple of cents.

While I agree with 99% of what you said I think pointing out the evils are not the best way to reach people as it turns up the emotions and turns off the mind.Instead simply and with out passion...point out the contradictions and basic facts.....for example mentioning all the changes and re-writings of the bible and other religious works....talking about who rewrote them and why.Discussing the different writers of the gospels and going over what the political situation was at the time and why the religious text played a big if not major role in moving things in a new direction. A lot of people know that their organizations a run by men...but if you can show with each little step that is is all about control,money and influence you have a better chance at reaching someone. I didn't mean to be critical at all just wanted to add my opinion.

I find it is Atheists are just fighting back after the religious try to get them to convert. I strongly disagree about the influence of religion. It is the evil in people that have them use religion as an excuse to cause harm. All religions are true but they are not for all. It is up to each of us to find what works for us and be faithful. To many it means having a religion. For others , it means never to have a religion.

Well, you certainly opened a can of worms with this one! I have been trying to post my thoughts on this discussion for some time, but the site or my time has not allowed it. Your thoughts on organised religion are very similar to mine Lash. I did not grow up in a religious household, but as a child I did have lots of Catholic and other Christian friends whom I went to church with from time to time whenever I stayed at their house. I have also come into contact with many people from varying religious backgrounds as an adult which has led me to further believe that organised religions are not all that they are promoted to be. I have seen first hand many people who grew up in these religions struggling with their own beliefs as they have moved into adulthood. I have seen them living two separate lives and hiding one from their family and religious friends in order to avoid persecution. I have also seen them hiding this religious background from their non religious friends. This is not good for ones mental state! I see religions as being no different to sporting clubs such as football teams. In both football and religion, the organisation promotes their club or church in order to gain membership dollars. They spout the benefits of belonging and new followers come on board believing that their team or particular form of religion is the best, better and more appealing than the rest! Spirituality to me should be a personal thing. A belief in a higher consciousness, whether it be a Christian God, Buddha, Krishna or The Universe, is a personal thing that cannot be shared with others. It is a way of looking within ourselves and being at peace with our life. It should not be something that others force upon us or teach us. We need to find our own spiritual paths. I also agree with you that we do not require religion in order to have good morals. Some religions may bring that out in people, but I believe that in most cases those morals were already instilled in the person in the first place. They may have just been swayed by others beforehand. I know of plenty of good people who are not at all religious. There are also many people high up in religions who have definitely proven themselves to be lacking in morals. This fact has reared it's ugly head many times sadly.

I find it necessary because religion dominate my life. We have religious laws here, religious affairs minister, big taxes amounts goes straight to religious organizations, schools, and large families that brought to this world way too many kids because religion tells them to (19 kids, god bless them, and take of them... yeah right.). Here religion is not an individual thing. It's an obligation to the entire population. There are no cables on Yom Kippur, no bread on Passover, no non-religious marriages\divorce (do you see my point?). I think it is necessary for me, and others- to fight religion as it doesn't let us live without abiding its silly rules.

I am really surprised about what you write. The only people I know are the religions (christians and moslims) who always try to force what they heard of plus believe up to others. Even the Jehova witnesses are not that extreme as the religions are. Perhaps because I live in a country where most people don't care about religion anymore? Don't see it as a must and where churches are used as homes, shops, etc? The way you write about what you believe sounds to me also as forcing it up to others. The bible is a book, written by many, changed through the ages, translated and changed again, there was no book print. To some it's just a book (the fairy tales the brothers Grimm collected and wrote down in a book are sold as nearly as much as the bible!) to others it's the law. Personally I don't care what anyone believes, if it's the bible, a god or a vip like Michael Jackson or superman. And if it comes to evil.. evil is a personal thing so is believe. If you have brains, self esteem you have to decide yourself what is right or wrong, there is not just one way. Same to morality, ethics etc.. it all depends on where in this world you are living, the culture, the habits etc. It's not said that the western world is the right world or that the people over there are developed in the right way. If it comes to that I even doubt it. I am still looking for those religion people who truly love their neighbours but I never met them. They only like their own kind and even then envy is everywhere and the will to help out others is nearly zero. Those people I know who always give and care (and attract all the abusers and are stabbed in the back) are seldom religious.