Divine Inspiration

AidaLily: No one claims your list is divinely inspired. No one has been trying to rid the world of your list. Opponents of the Bible have been discrediting and trying to rid the world of the Bible for centuries. The reason they continue to fail is because Jesus said His Word would never pass away and it never will because the Word of God is divinely inspired. Why don't you do like the former atheist, Lee Strobel, author of "The Case for Christ," did and investigate the Bible with an open mind? grandpa_lash: And just because millions of people saying it isn't so doesn't mean that it isn't. Like it or not, you have to admit that even though there are those who have campaigned against the Bible throughout the centuries, people still believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and these are not just people who grew up on the Bible, but millions who have been inspired to convert from their birth faith.

Precious, it has been clear for at least the last century that most people are sheep. Anything that provides them with some sort of comfort in the face of the unknowable is going to be grabbed with both hands. But as Robert E Heinlein once put it (in essence), a million people saying something is so does not make it so. I see you have fallen into precisely the fault I am talking about, trying to use the Bible itself to prove that the Bible is valid. Doesn't cut it. Lash

The Bible is still here. So are the Iliad and the Odyssey. So are hieroglyphics and age old pyramids. So are the drawings of cavemen. So are the bones of dinosaurs. So are age old remnants of many many lost and/or forgotten civilizations. And much much more. There are plenty of things that are still here and to say that the bible still being here is proof that it is correct is essentially not saying much. After all, those things I just mentioned still exists as well. The dinosaur bones are older than the bible and yet there are no mentions of these creatures in the bible. It has been proven by a comprehensive study of history and the overwhelmingly true knowledge that history repeats itself. The knowledge that the book has been altered countless times is also there. All you have to do is go to your local library and start comparing revelations with different time periods. It only changes to suit the current times. Ask your religious leader to go and read and translate the original scriptures of the bible... if the Vatican will let you. As long as people believe that it is there only way to get answers, to be a good person, and more, it will never go away... Scientology has been disproved and yet there are still people draw to it like a moth to the flame. Scientology continues to convict, convince and inspire people to believe in emperor xenon or something like that. The bible is the same. If you grow up being taught that (like folktales for instance) then you are going to believe it unless you question it yourself. Could you be a good person with morals, if the book didn't exist? Could you still have faith without your holy text? Would you still be a good person with morals, if the book didn't exist? It is all in context. You say in three location the bible says "...My word will never pass away." Based on the human psyche, you are right because someone realized it could be used for control and someone made sure it would be passed down to continuously be used for control. While not as technologically advanced, humans still knew ways of manipulation and thus practiced them on fellow man. It is just plain common sense. However, I have stated many times, if you need that to have faith and be a good person, keep using it. It's like a self-help guide for some people. Therapy... to each their own.

I wavewr between agnostic (not knowing) and Deist, which means accepting that there is probably a creator, because hwio else to explain the amazing order to be found in the universe,, but not that it has anything to do with the representations humans have created to fill their need for an explanation of the incomprehensible. The Bible (or the Koran etc. etc.) cannot prove the existence of God for the reasons I mentioned in the OP. Lash

I hear your point Lash. While I believe I am an agnostic myself. I do realize that 14 plus billion years is a long time. I know humans have screwed up a lot of things since we have separated from the rest of the animal kingdom. If you really think about it though, look how much humans have accomplished in just the last few hundred years let alone since we started walking upright. So I imagine if we could accomplish what we have accomplished in a short time in the scheme of things. Then I can see how the universe is so godlike to many people. Really if you think about it, all the universe has over us is time. Of course we are all made out of all the things that created the universe. SO on my opinion the most amazing things have just been around longer. Had a much longer time to become to figure out how to be amazing. Technically we are made out of the same things that have been around so long. It is just nothing has evolved to the point we are at least that we know of. I hope that makes some kind of sense. The bible is what, 2000 plus years old and will never give the answers to a 14 billion plus old universe. Not for man, Earth or the stars.

I like it: " I don't question a person's faith, but I question that book." That is precisely my stance. I can even understand why people would have faith, even if I can't come at it, and respect them for it in most cases (evangelicals aside lol); but I cannot come at the Book because of all the reasons you have so clearly made throughout this discussion. And, of course, the same thing can be said about the Koran, or any other "holy" book. Lash

You are the first christian that I have read admits to their being alterations to the scriptures. I want to ask if you also find it annoying that certain things are protested against usually by those who attend church using a scripture from one part of the bible and when you ask why they do not follow the rest of it.. they respond with "it doesn't apply anymore." I think the original scriptures written on scrolls may offer some insight, but the ones they have found no one is allowed to read. Do you think that the first mass produced bible may have been altered and put together to suit the needs of the people running the church at that time? I hope I am not offending you by asking these questions. These have always been the questions that led me to believe in the bible as it is today and has probably been for centuries being used as a tool to control man. With every new "translation" it seems things are added, changed, and do not keep up with the original translation but instead what people have changed the words to mean like with those who use slang.