Help Me Sort-Out Jesus Christ's Words Here (Luke 17:1-13)
@mythociate (21432)
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
September 10, 2012 12:52pm CST
Some of Luke 16 kinda confuses me; looks like some meditation-&-discussion is needed here. Let's start with just looking at it (with maybe a little discussion as we go):
"1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
"2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
"3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
"4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
"5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
"6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
"7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
"8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."
Huh? Explain to me what the steward did, because it LOOKS LIKE he discounted debts owed to his master (by paying the difference himself? I dunno) and then got PRAISED by his master for doing that ... but only after he was 'accused' (truly? falsely?) of mismanagement.
Please explain that, & the following:
"9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
"10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
"11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
"12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?"
Is that saying to treat unworthy things as if they are worthy? Isn't that on the same level as lying? Especially if you know the following:
"13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
But what if you are 'serving mammon' as a test to prove yourself worthy of 'serving God'? Are you to hate God while serving mammon?
2 people like this
3 responses
@carmelanirel (20942)
• United States
11 Sep 12
I will try to explain the second part here:
[b]"9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
"10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
"11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
"12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?"
[/b]
The above is like when one starts working at a company. The new employee is not usually given the top ranking job, but must work to show his skills and loyalty to the boss before he is given a promotion. I hope that made sense, if not, let me know and I will try to explain it another way. Now for the last verse.
"13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
When one serves mammon, they put it before G♥d, thus it means he or she hates G♥d and loves the mammon. But if one serves G♥d, then mammon will mean nothing and so he or she hates mammon and loves G♥d. Some people, even Christians and leaders of the Christian community, do love mammon more than G♥d. They don't see G♥d as their provider, and instead they see money as their provider.
@carmelanirel (20942)
• United States
11 Sep 12
Well mammon is really a form of material wealth, so if one serves it, he or she is breaking the first commandment of having other gods before Him. Now everyone does need some form of money in order to survive, whether it is cash or gold or whatever, but we need to know where it comes from first, because it didn't come out of thin air..
As for the little hearts, if you didn't want to know, why bring it up???
@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
11 Sep 12
'everyone does need some form of money to survive.' That's just what the Devil hopes you think.
And money really does come out of thin air (as the bankers & loan-takers demand it).
1 person likes this
@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
11 Sep 12
Oh, I see! You're not SERVING unrighteous mammon at first, you're DEALING WITH unrighteous mammon!
But all to serve G-d (I don't know how you do those little hearts; I mean I know how to look it up, I just 
don` wanna 
)
don` wanna )1 person likes this
@Citizen_Stuart (2016)
•
10 Sep 12
As far as Verses 1-8 go, my take on it is this:
The servant's aware that there are a couple of people who owe his boss, but haven't paid him back - maybe they're paying back in installments and it will take a long time to pay it all back, or they don't think they can afford to pay at all. The servant brokers this deal where the debtors pay back what they owe at a discounted rate, but it's paid immediately. That way the boss at least gets something back instead of nothing, which is a rational deal when cash flow's an issue and you've got bad debtors. It's the sort of deal that takes place every day, it's like when a credit card company offers you a discount if you pay them a lump payment instead of installments. It seems to me the point of this parable is that, instead of sitting around feeling sorry for himself, the steward has used his brain to figure out how he can make himself useful to his boss and get his job back. It's actually not a bad potted lesson in entrepreneurial thinking.
I can't help you with the rest unfortunately, I find the language a bit vague. A bit more of the context might help, but I can't lay my hand on my Bible at the moment. Hopefully someone more knowledgable will be along shortly ;-)
@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
11 Sep 12
All the context I know is that Jesus is a 'freelance rabbi' (a guy who thinks & talks about old wisdom, but who isn't "degreed" & isn't tied-up in the professionalism of the official scholars of the day) & the Pharisees, lawyers, and other official scholars aren't "having that" 
and are looking for ways to show that Jesus is actually sinister & an anarchist trying to tear down the royal system (which he kinda was, so He could replace it with a system built on the foundation and not -on the people's dreams of high places).
and are looking for ways to show that Jesus is actually sinister & an anarchist trying to tear down the royal system (which he kinda was, so He could replace it with a system built on the foundation and not -on the people's dreams of high places).@carmelanirel (20942)
• United States
11 Sep 12
Actually, mythociate, Jesus was very well learned in His day, enough that He surprised the leaders when he was 13, talking to them in the temple.
Citizen, you might be correct, I didn't catch that perhaps that was the man's way of getting some money back for his employer.
@ebony_77 (42)
• United States
15 Oct 12
When a person is rich, they dont need anything. Most of them have people working for them. It gets so bad that when they lose everything they have, they become prideful because they are not used to asking for help or receiving from other people. The same with the rich man in this scripture. The steward was the person that did everything for him. But when jesus took the steward away, the rich man became prideful because he never asked anybody for help. What you mentioned is what the steward did. they paid some and he paid the rest. Yess he was praised because he did something right.
As far as the other scripture 9-13, what jesus is doing is teaching the steward that he should receive anybody no matter where they are in their life. the unrighteous represents sinners or those in need. YOu can become friends with them. In order for them to see or know who God is, they have to be around you. Also what it is saying that before God can see how faithful you are with many, you have to be faithful with the little you have. If you cannot be faithful with what you have, God will not bless you with more. verse 13 is saying you cannot serve God and the devil at the same time. You have to choose which way you are going to go. Are you going to serve God or are you going to serve the devil.
I hope this helps.
@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
16 Oct 12
That's good.
I do think that 'saying "not serving God is serving the devil"' is a little misleading, as it's saying that the devil has control of ALL THE POSSIBLE CHOICES EXCEPT GOD, which he doesn't.
When Jesus 'took away the keys to the gates of Hell,' that control is what he took. Now it's God Vs. Each Person's Own Spirit. As that Spirit IS part of God, it's a matter of choosing whether you belong to yourself or to the whole Kingdom.
