coptic christians
innocence of muslims movie
islam
muslims
nakoula basseley nakoula
prophet mohammed
radical muslims
Nakoula Basseley Nakoula and "The Innocence of Muslims" Movie
By bostonphil
@bostonphil (4459)
United States
September 13, 2012 2:38pm CST
What damage this man has done and what havoc he has brought to much of the world with his insulting move about The Prophet Muhammed. Four very innocent Americans are dead in Libya because of Nakoula and his peers. These victims were all persons trying to help the Libyan people and they paid with their lives because of some questionable jerk living in Los Angeles. To try to make the situation worse, Nakoula tried to pretend that he was an Israeli Jew. Like the Jews and Israelis need this, right. In fact, Nakoula if a Coptic Christian of Egyptian heritage.
Nothing is bringing back the four dead and who else knows what more will happen.
However, in saying all of the above, the movie was some ridiculous Grade F piece of junk. It was not based on truth or fact. It was meant to insult and inflame which it has done. No one would have ever heard of it except for the rioting and chaos. Even if radial Muslims were offended, it would have been a lot better if they had ignored the entire thing.
Nakoula and his buddies have caused so much damage with their Grade F movie but radical Muslims have fed the stereotypes.
I am heartsick about the situation especially the four Americans who have lost their lives.
3 people like this
12 responses
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
14 Sep 12
Mr Nakoula is responsible for making a crappy film. There is no law against making crappy films in the U.S., nor is there likely to be one anywhere soon. Nor does the United States have laws against insulting people, nor are likely to pass any anytime soon.
The only people responsible for the violence committed by people upset by Mr. Nakoula's disgusting movie is the people being committing their violence. No one forced them to be violent, they chose to be violent and that is on them and them alone.
2 people like this
@cotruelove (1016)
• Denver, Colorado
15 Sep 12
In America, we do have laws about inciting to riot! Depending on how the American government views this so called film, there are laws in place that can be used against the film maker. It is no different than someone standing in front of a crowd and getting them to riot, which usually ends with someone being injured or killed. It just happens this is a film. Whether it was solely the responsibility of the film maker, or a conspiracy designed to create the reaction we have witnessed, is yet to be disclosed. I'm sure it is all being investigated and thoroughly.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
I am very sad about the violence especially the deaths of the Americans in Libya.
Mr Nakoula's movie was trash based on nothing factual. It was meant to insult and provoke and it did just that. And yes, the persons responsible for the deaths of four very innocent Americans are those who engaged in the violence. But Mr. Nakoula, being a Coptic Christian of Egyptian heritage, must have know that his movie would have caused some uproar. He probably did not expect such an uproar.
Why would he make a movie like this?
@ladysilver (370)
•
14 Sep 12
This movie (if you can call it a movie) is a filthy provocation which ,I'm afraid, might turn into serious problems.Mocking Christianity was an easy thing to do, but it won't be the same with Islam.It's a different mentality.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
Agreed. it is a different mentality. There are many out there who do mock Christianity. I do not approve of the mocking but one does not see Christians uprising and out of control because of the mocking. They would probably pray for the person who mocked them.
There have been some instances where Christians were outraged by insults from former Christians or those of other faiths. But in those situations, the Christians were vocal, not violent.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
15 Sep 12
I think that they can get him on something. I am wondering about inciting a riot. It was not even much of a film. It was being shown on the internet.
The film was nothing more than a piece of junk but the response to it is outrageous. And it has already gotten worse. I fear that there is even more to come.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
15 Sep 12
The United States is a democracy and we enjoy great freedom but sometimes freedom can be abused. One freedom we enjoy is the right to free speech. I may not like what someone says but they have the right to say it no matter how hateful or cruel.
But here is an example where someone exercising his right to free speech has cost the lives of very innocent persons. The bodies of the four Americans killed were returned to the United States today. it is very sad.
In many Western Countries, there are laws against hate speech but not in the United States.
@Gordano (795)
• United States
17 Sep 12
The purpose of that film is All political not just religious bigotry, or rater political agenda used religious bigotry for its purpose, the president Obama is not hostile towards Muslims, and he tries to build good connections with the Muslim world, some people want Muslim world to raise up arms, they funded and produced the film with the intention to make trouble knowing the Muslim reaction in advance, they will highlight the reaction of Muslims in the Media, this is to make a notion that another Bush (a republican) is the best choice for America now, which is certainly not true.
I hope that All liberated Americans understand this, and support Obama for world peace.
New details emerge of anti-Islam film's mystery producer:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/13/world/anti-islam-filmmaker/index.html
1 person likes this
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
3 Oct 12
Gordano, do you know the film maker(s)? How do you know what they expected and were trying to do? It looks to me that part of the motivation was a response to Muslims persecuting Christians in Egypt. A lot of people (including myself) think Obama is too friendly to Muslims and should stand up to them more. Also he seems to be betraying Israel to please Muslims. A lot of people think he's secretly a Muslim.
I don't like Mormonism either so I have serious concerns about Romney.
I also have my suspicions about the dirt which is being dug up on the movie maker.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
17 Sep 12
You have an interesting viewpoint. I will keep what you say in mind. It is an election year and everything is political at this point. I do not think that you have anything to worry about. The pundits seem to feel that Obama is a shoo-in.
The film maker knowingly pushed buttons. He knew there would be outrage. The militants did exactly what he wanted and hoped for.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
17 Sep 12
Thanks for the link. Interesting. Very interesting. I have been following this story and had read some things about the film maker but this story had added information. The film maker is a real weasel.
I forgot to read the link before my earlier post. Just wanted to let you know that I did read it and glad that you sent it.
@cotruelove (1016)
• Denver, Colorado
13 Sep 12
Hello friend,
One of the problems that develops in a country with as many freedoms as we have, is the freedom of expression in any manner we so choose. However, in this case, it would be in my opinion an act of terrorism. That is exactly what it accomplished. I would not be surprised if Mr. Nakoula didn't become subject to some of the laws imposed since 9-11. He is directly responsible for the attacks on American citizens. When you knowingly create something to insult people who are fragile at the least, namely Muslims, with the current politics in the world, you know what you are doing and you should be the one suffering the consequences of your actions not innocent American citizens who may or may not have even known of the film's existence. Because we live in a country that allows such freedoms of expression and speech, the blame has been placed on all of us, not the maker of the film. It is awful the tragic consequences that has been bestowed on all of America in the eyes of the Muslim world because of one person's indiscretion. I do believe that Mr. Nakoula should be held responsible in some manner and the Muslim world should be made aware of our intolerance of such behavior.
Unfortunately, I believe we, as a nation, have interfered with so many other countries and their beliefs and government that we have lost their respect and confidence in us. As a nation, we seem to believe we have the right to force our beliefs in freedom and democracy on other countries in the world, whether that country has a problem with the way they govern or not. Perhaps we should learn to mind our own business more and allow other countries to have their own way of life whether it agrees with ours or not, and we need to respect it.
In the case of Mr. Nakoula, his freedom of expression, is unacceptable to many in the world and basically is viewed as a religious attack in the Muslim world. Sad that the repercussions of his film will be felt for many years to come in the diplomatic community. There are many things in this world that do not need to placed in the comic, sarcastic, dramatic or fantasy world of film regardless of the quality of the material they use. A film like his which totally misrepresents the sacred beliefs of a religion should never be aired in my opinion.
Several years ago, I had the opportunity to talk to a young man in Saudi Arabia. His mother had formed an opinion of America based on the film "American Pie." That opinion was blocking him from coming to America and getting an education. His mother was an educated doctor and she felt that our colleges and life on campus was exactly as represented by that film. So, the visual world has influence on the opinions about life in America whether it is factual or not; just like Mr. Nakoula's film has inflamed the opinions of the Muslim community. I do not know if the young man ever was able to convince his mother that all life on campus was not like the film or not, but it definitely was not his opinion. Our film industry needs to look at what they present to the world and how what they are presenting may affect others, but because of our freedoms, I doubt that will ever happen. I think if we were to ask many people in other countries what they think of America in general, I think we would be surprised by the answer and many of those opinions have been developed by our film industry.
People need to think about what they post in places like youtube before they post it. Many need to be deleted or removed from the public eye and for that, I feel youtube needs to be held responsible also. Is it called censorship, well, yes, but it is the responsibility of organizations to set guidelines about an acceptable submission. Just think, however, would the problem with bullying ever have been revealed without youtube or facebook?
Thanks for the discussion!
1 person likes this
@cotruelove (1016)
• Denver, Colorado
14 Sep 12
Personally, I believe in the restraint of what I say, write, or do. Because I can do something, doesn't necessarily mean I should. Everything I say or do needs to be well thought out before I spill it out into the world. I don't believe everyone in America should say whatever comes to their mind, much of it is x-rated, violent and encourages people to behave poorly. Yes, I believe in freedom of speech, and it isn't about bending over backward to pacify anyone, it is about realizing the effect of our actions in anything we do whether in words, movies, written word, or violence and being responsible for whatever we do or say.
I know many Muslims here in America, and they don't expect anyone to bend over and bow to them. There are a few radicals in every religion and even here on MyLot they exist. As has been seen before, in a book that was published knocking the Muslim religion, those who do so, tend to be in jeopardy for their lives. Think that would make anyone careful of what they say and how they say it. I know I wouldn't like to be forced into hiding because of what some see as a harmless film and others see differently.
I too, have read the Koran. Just reading it does not mean understanding. Mohammed was a prophet and accepted as one even in the Judeo-Christian community.
Don't assume someone hasn't viewed the film. Their opinion of it may be entirely different from yours, and obviously, in the Muslim community in the Middle East, it isn't viewed the way many in America see it. Restraint of the form of creativity in the movie, may have been a better decision than to cause such violent reactions as we are seeing in the middle east. We already can't afford the war in Afghanistan and having this movie cause war conditions thorough out the middle east, is a form of bad judgment on the film makers part.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
13 Sep 12
cotruelove, this response COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DISGUSTS ME!. Don't you believe in freedom of speech? No it this tradgedy is not the fault of the film maker, it's the fault of the Muslim scum who actually did the attacks!
Lets go back the supporting freedom of speech and stop bending over and dropping our trousers whenever we see a Muslim! The sun does not shine out of the their orofises just because most of them have dark skin! They should not be allowed to censor the media by the use of terrorism!
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
I believe in free speech and we are so blessed in this country to have so many freedoms. God bless America! But sometimes, free speech can inflame and incite as this movie did. Mr. Nakoula is a suspicious person. He has a criminal background. He is not young nor is he a film maker. He is Coptic Christian who has a grudge against Muslims. What he did is unacceptable and has resulted in murder as well as so many other problems. The whole Muslim World is outraged and turning upside down.
I do believe that Mr. Nakoula should be held responsible for some of the uproar that is occurring. He should be held responsible for inciting a riot or riots.
Regarding the film industry. They do not always do right and they are very powerful. They influence all of us, sometimes for good but often for bad.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
3 Oct 12
I'm disgusted by this business! Everybody is blaming Nakoula or whoever made the movie and very few people are standing up for freedom of speech. I strongly believe that Islam is an inherently evil religion which promotes violence, religious intollerance (exspecially against Jews and Christians), sexim, homophobia and pedophilia and needs to be strongly opposed. Unfortunately it responds to even peaceful oposition with violence and lawfair (using questionable legal means to silence critics, e.g. filing a hate speech suit against somebody for saying, correctly, that the Koran is badly written).
It's necessary to send a very strong message to Muslims that they have no right to censor Western media or to special protection that's not also given to other religions but this is exactly what is NOT happening. Instead everybody is acting as if criticizing Islam is inherently wrong.
Nobody is paying much attention to what the movie really claims, which, as far as I can tell, is true or at least based on some evidence. I think part of the makers' motivation is to oppose persecution of Christians by Muslims in Egypt but this aspect is hardly mentioned.
The world's non-Muslims need to have the rose tinted glasses torn off their faces so they can see how dreadful Islam is and that means that people need to be able to tell the truth about it. Telling the truth about Islam is pretty much the same as insulting it.
1 person likes this
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
5 Oct 12
bostonphil, if you were to decide that movies (and probably other media) like this one should be banned, exactly what law would you make that acheives this? You can't just ban things some people, or even lots of people, don't like, you've got to have clear rules about what lines can't be crossed. You've also got to make sure those lines can't easily be moved. There's a strong danger that Harry Potter or anything about evolution could be banned because it offends some Christains. There's a perhaps greater danger that anything that contradicts Islam, including movies in which Jesus is crucified or even the Bible, will be banned.
Perhaps you'd like to explain what bits of the movie aren't true as, as far as I can tell, most it's claims are true and there aren't any I'm sure are not.
There's certainly reason to doubt that the killing of the Americans was really related to the movie. Also the US seems to have had warning of this in advance and chose not to take apropriate measures.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
5 Oct 12
I have not seen the movie nor do I have any interest in doing so. I have followed discussions about the movie and events that have followed on line and on TV. Most, if not all, observers feel that the movie was a piece of trash not based on any facts.
Have you seen the movie? How do you know that it is the truth?
I have no interest in banning any speech at all but others do. I try to respect all viewpoints, whether I agree with them or not.
@peavey (16936)
• United States
13 Sep 12
I agree that it's a disgrace for anyone to make a movie like this (I only know about it from hearsay), we need to put the blame where it belongs. Part of it belongs to the movie maker, but part of it belongs to the radicals who reacted so severely. There was no reason for that except that they wanted an excuse to terrorize.
Other religions have endured far worse and have not murdered and rampaged as a result of it.
1 person likes this
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
I so agree with what you are saying. Other religions get made fun of. Other Gods and Prophets get made fun of. I do not approve or encourage this hate but other groups do not rise up like this because their religion was made fun of.
The lousy movie was just an excuse, not the reason.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
14 Sep 12
Hi bostonphil, I too am very saddened by the deaths of those four innocent Americans. It is sad that there are people in the world who have nothing better to do than stir up trouble and this movie was clearly made with that intention. Blessings.
1 person likes this
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
It does not take much, does it. I believe that most people are basically decent and are trying to do right by one another. Those who want to hurt others are much smaller in number but those haters can cause so much grief for the rest of humanity.
Look at what has happened because of one man and a small group of haters.
@artemeis (4194)
• China
14 Sep 12
Everything about the film just doe not sound RIGHT!
1. The Producer
From Sam Bacile to Nakoula Basseley, no one actually know who is the real producer of this movie. Sam Bacile is just a pen name and as for Nakoula, he is a former criminal who looks like he is too good to be a Coptic christian. I don't believe a Coptic christian would give this movie such a good name. The title to me is sentimental to Islam.
2. Film Production
It is mentioned that the finance for the film by Jew donors amounted to U$5 million.
Then, how is it that the film could appear to be some cheap grade F flick where the dubbing could be tampered with and not even released to the cinemas but through the worldwide web?
It is even more questionable when the casts were being LIED to that the film is about the history of Egypt. I say lied to because I am sure these actors and actresses would be educated enough to reject the offer had they know otherwise.
So far all these do not seem to add up at all and since the film is being released on the web, how is it that Egypt got the first wind of the movie and not America?
Unbelievable right?
1 person likes this
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
There is a whole lot about the film and everything surrounding it and everything that happened supposedly because of it that does not sound right.
More is coming out. Nakoula was actually in prison when he developed this idea for the film. The film cost 50 to 60 thousand dollars to produce, not $5 million as was originally stated. And there were no Jewish donors for the film. I believe that most of the funding came from Nakoula and his son.
@adhyz82 (36249)
• Indonesia
20 Sep 12
send Nakoula Basseley Nakoula to Egypt..
He is trouble maker for all world not only for USA...
He should apologize to the world because of his stupid action and especially he should apologize the impact of protest because of his stupid movies (the victim of the movies are 4 USA diplomatic)...
nakoula basseley nakoula must be punished sooner..
1 person likes this
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
3 Oct 12
adhyz, there are laws about extraditing people to other countries. They include being fairly sure that they will be tried fairly and, if found guilty, not given an overly harsh punishment. I think in this case, extriditing Nakoula to Egypt is unlikely because of these laws. I'm not even sure if he's broken any US laws.
bostonphil, yeah, the problem is much bigger than Nakoula and his movie. The problem is that Islam is a horrible, violent, sexist, intollerant religion, founded by a mad terrorist and pedophile. It's scripture reads like the rants of lunatic. To make matters worse, it responds to even valid criticism by violence and/or taking questionable legal action against people (this is called lawfare). It has no respect for freedom of speech. It's values are totally incompatable with Western civilization.
@ajk111 (2495)
•
13 Sep 12
I have not watched the movie but clearly the killings are terrible and sad. if indeed Basseley is not a jew then he has clearly made this to cause incitment and for that he needs to be thrown in jail.
i feel the attack in libya may of been co-incidental as the date is too close to 911. Either way, Basseley and the killers in Libya need to be bought to justice.
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
13 Sep 12
I do not know if he Basseley has broken any U.S. laws in making his movie. More will come out, I am sure.
It will be interesting to see what will happen to the killers in Libyia. It could be that the movie was just an excuse and not the reason. Maybe, the real reason was 911.
@koopharper (7601)
• Canada
14 Sep 12
The motives of making this film are clearly political. The subject matter and the timing of its release was designed to get a reaction. I do not understand why anyone would bother watching this kind of slop. I think it is wrong to insult someone else's religious belief in this manner. On the other hand I think it is even more wrong to start murdering people who had nothing to do with it as a response. There are people there who are stirring up trouble. I do not understand why some very poorly made movie by some unknown that isn't even released through the normal channels would be or any real interest or concern to anyone. I don't even understand why anyone would want the guy who made it executed. Let him live the shame of producing such a piece of trash.
1 person likes this
@bostonphil (4459)
• United States
14 Sep 12
Very well said. I do not need to add anything more except that I wish I could write as well as yourself.
None of us would have heard about this so called movie but for the violence that was provoked by this movie. I would like to know how the radical muslims in Middle eastern countries heard about this movie.
Clearly, some persons or group wanted to do an uprising and they used the movie as an excuse.