Tongue in cheek stuff..why do people do it?

Naseem, I find you so logical and rational. And I do have such friends. I hope people read this first response before going ahead with writing what they feel or think.

What can I say..to me it is similar to that display on the roads ..monkey and its owner..as the desired by the owner monkey performs or acts. So Muslims have been reduced to that, teasing them in cruel way. Not fair..somebody is getting perverted pleasure doing this.

In a way I agree. They have made themselves vulnerable to such attacks or ridicule because they more often than not tend to bring religion in every sphere. Every conversation that you have gets an addendum ..there is only one god who is Allah. While under normal circumstances people may ignore it as much as a cough or sneeze, at times it can be very annoying to a stressed out person who might pick a fight for no other reason than the stress. What would ensue would not be very pleasant. By saying that so often, they are making others hate them and Allah and their religion. Are they not realizing that?

Muslims too do the same to others.They have made themselves vulnerable to such attacks and teasing.

I keep hoping more of us will see and understand that simple fact that G-d comes in many forms and answers to many names.

My kind of lady. Take for instance..me, I am daughter to somebody, sister to another, mother to yet another, and so on. But on the whole, I am only one person isn't it? So we each relate differently. He is just one. My daughter may call me mommy and my brother may call me sis, that does not make me two different persons. When will people realize this.. And yes, we need to respect the differences

Yes, why did the Russians invade Afghanistan? I never did quite get that... (tongue in cheek)

Yes..I agree..killing is wrong..very wrong and crazy. Now, if we said that, they would happily ask why Afghanistan happened? When do we cut off looking over our shoulders?

lol..now I am enjoying this.. So what..that is between Afghanistan and Russia, isn't it? How does it concern us?

Funny nobody asked me whether I like that way of imposing god. Because I would be real loud in saying NO. It is offensive to be told that my god is no god, as if I had no brains to be following him or her or them. Whether I am an atheist or not, it would still be annoying and persistent hammering of such things provoke people to rataliate in their way, then once there is a reaction from another place, crying foul is not right because it is a cultivated stuff. We reap as we sow, right? Killing is wrong, killing an innocent unforgivable.

I agree with We reap as we sow... but then, with that how do we explain - the killing of others who were nowhere involved? Isn't this killing of others who were nowhere involved something similar to saying Their God is No God? I agree that the movie might have been a wrong message and a thing which never should have been done... as it is against the faith of millions who believe in their god since birth... but then, the killings, to me, also suggest that how weak their faith and belief is which gets to killing others just because of some crap act of someone who isnt even of their faith.

I think training may have been essential for their survival in harsh environments in the past, and many things of that era are now irrelevant. In any event, I have not met any Muslim who has been cruel or violent with me, but I can safely say 40 percent of close relatives who incidentally are Hindus are inclined to be violent. Samar I will return to your post.

Samar, I didn't say a word what happens to the animal when slaughtered in the Islamic way. You may be right on this subject. I simply said about tradition of seeing a dying animal for hours and enjoying the scene makes people cruel by nature. Killing is no more a ghastly incident to them. Rise of terrorism all over the globe and involvement of a particular community in these is an indication towards my view. Vandana, you have been dealing with your community and people like all of us, so know only about them. Please look at the newspaper reports on crimes not only in India but at other places also, and find out which community is contributing maximum to the world of criminals.

My brother, there is a kind of people go out the worst in human inside of violence or evil , by provocation continued his .. This should be treated other by his morality , not by the morality of others thank you vandana

vandana7... Did you check with history when you seem to side the atrocities to some series of insults, perceived and non perceived injustices? Kindly check on how the Middle Easterners like Gaddaffi, Saddam and Osama became America's enemy? All of them were formerly America's allies until they went south with their policies, politics and government. The other fact will be the ever going relationship between America and Israel where the latter is ever at odds with ALL of the Middle East countries. So, as you can see America did not go about killing innocent people in the Middle East and the wars within the Middle East were never started by America. On Bin Laden and his beloved, I really have to ask you WHY SHOULDN'T other countries join in the wizard hunt? You seem to forget the fatal Mumbai massacre which is from an Al-Qaida linked group - Mujaheddin who came in from Pakistan and started blazing. Since the joint cooperation many potential attacks have been successfully stopped before it actually hit the innocent masses. Training camps in various hidden corners were destroyed and stopped from committing more acts of terror. Not forgetting that the international cooperation on seizing the finances these operatives are getting that are mostly foreign funded. If there were no cross border cooperation then I am sure, not only will there be more attacks, the attacks will be even more devastating when these cells will be able to finance the resources to produce nuclear and biological mass destruction weapons. Remember terrorism is international, worldwide and deadly. Next, I have to correct you about the Afghan war where you seem to perceive that America just went in to attack the nation to seek out Bin Laden. Again, you seem to forget the oppression the Afghanistan people were in, when Talibans governed the country with an iron hand. Peace talks would just collapse right after a few days and fighting will just resume. Horrific accounts were revealed on televised documentaries after Americans went into Afghanistan. Didn't you see them when they were being televised on CNN, National Geographic and Discovery? The country was literally shut to the outside world, their bylaws were oppressive and punishments brutal. Even children were not spared. War being inevitable will always result in innocents civilians being severely injured and killed. You need to understand that terrorists do not fight conventionally and they usually mingle within the crowd using them as shields. They camped in young children schools or establish headquarters in peoples' residence or offices. They use guerrilla warfare and do not observe war conventions with their captured war prisoners. I don't think you know that after the Taliban were forced out of Afghanistan, the local Afghans were very happy and relieved. Fighting terrorism is never some straightforward search and destroy war. These terrorists are cunning and they are difficult to find. If you do what America did with Bin Laden, you will have an international incident and if you use the drone on them in there will be innocent civilian casualties which will rile up emotions and undermine international relations and cooperation. Finally, if you had done the checks at your end, you should be able to conclude that America did not draw first blood as far as wars and violence are concerned.

If people do not want to learn from history like the Japanese from WWII, then I would agree with you that there's no end and point even of referring back to the past. History is a study of past mistakes so that it can never be repeated but when it falls on deaf ears, it will just be a benchmark for greater violence - repeating every bit of it. As both sides are in the wrong in various areas, I think they will need to recognize their own faults and start doing their in-house discipline.

Even if that freedom of speech puts their country at risk? Surely, it can be expected that such demonstrations would happen? Even destruction of properties. I would say burning of flag is a very serious issue. Anybody doing that or doing any actions leading to that doesnt deserve any mercy. Artemeis..series of issues are boiling in the hearts of followers of Islam, so how do you expect honor, tolerance, love etc., survive? We had Afghanistan bombings. Were innocents not killed there? We had Iraq bombings. Were innocents not killed there? If America is justified to attack a nation instead of bringing Osama Bin Laden and his friends on their knees, then this is a miniature of that. They can think like that, isn't it? I am from a religion other than Islam, in fact a foe religion you could say - and I am questioning it in that. Obviously, we went wrong with them once too often and they are hurting inside. We need to calm the waters instead of encouraging such things in the name of freedom of speech and expression.

SusanLee bad apples are everywhere..trust me I get irritated and anti god when folks from my religion try to tell me ours is the only religion and best religion, whatever. I get into the defiant mode, and start arguments FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING AND MAKING THEM FEEL OUT OF DEPTH. Not that I believe much in what they said or what I say at such times..lol. It is the typical my daddy strongest syndrome. Everyone ends up lying ..lol But yes, it does provoke the adolescent in me. What impresses me more is how people behave. I dont want lectures and I dont want preaching. I dont even want to be told what is there in the scriptures until I am the one that is seeking answers and asking meanings. All I want is to say, you have two eyes, I have two too. So your god is as good as mine..may be they were twins triplets quadruplets etc..lol

Aerous..in a way I think I understand the demonstrators. Look at it like this, would you like anybody to say mother mary couldnt have been a virgin because virgins dont have children. Now that is HUGE. If I start a discussion here on something like that, a lot of people would get perturbed but my intention is just to show you that every religion has their inconsistent stuff. We shouldnt opine on them. What is good in the religion we should pick. If we ridicule another religion, our population will start thinking ill of a community and it could lead to communal riots at a later date. Therefore, such a crime should be treated as the highest level of defamation and laws should be passed to control such movie making.

Before I continue, vandana. I want to correct something about "I think those violent demonstration is proper" this might be "not proper". I agree with those demonstrator if they properly strike without any innocent people being killed. I don't think that any religion teach every member to killed anybody else. I understand their grievances, my friend. But what I don't agree about is that the violence they are instigated. Even religion has inconsistent it doesn't mean used as an alibi to killed innocent people. Look here in our country there is also a demonstration with our brother but they are peacefully cried out their grievances. There is only one person that makes mistake and I think it is not just to punish those people without any knowledge about the movie. There is only one American people did it. What I don't understand those demonstrator wrap up the entire country to be blame...this is not proper, my friend. That person really violate the free exercise of religion and there must not be law being created to degrade the sanctity of religion...

aerous..for starters I am not a muslim, and I am trying to look at the things from the perspective of both involved and seek a solution so that nothing similar happens. "There is only one American people did it. What I don't understand those demonstrator wrap up the entire country to be blame...this is not proper, my friend." They too are likely to think ..a few muslims do wrong, why do they say all muslims are terrorists? After all who likes to hear such statements about themselves and how can they explain to their children the things when the child asks? Right? Though I too felt it was too much, and wrong, I cant say much on it because while the US is fine with saying the right to freedom of speech is to be upheld, it indirectly wants another country to have laws in place to prevent such things. I also think as long as we are within the boundaries of our country we have some identity. Once we leave the country we become representatives of the country. So whatever be our country and culture and art form and whatever, we embody that. When an outsider talks to us, meets us, and recognizes us, he or she bears in mind the location from where, and what's our background. If we receive low quality materials from another country dont we say that things from India are so low quality instead of identifying it with specific manufacturer? Therefore, in this scenario, yes, though innocent, the embassy staff did represent the US and all that its citizens do. Ideally, I would have laws in place in all countries to see that no religion is ridiculed or hurt in anyway, and any right to freedom of speech would have to be within that limit as well.

Couldn't agree more.

Yes, confusing author with country is as wrong as confusing terrorists with a religion, or country, right? Or not? Top I am just trying to look at it from argumentative angle and trying to see..if we can reach a stage where we can soothe each other and move on. Slaying is always wrong, whether it happens in World Trade Center, or Afghanistan, or at Embassies, or concentration camps. Wrong wrong wrong.. Tell me the movie maker didnt know this could've happened? What was he aiming at anyway? Inciting people, getting them to kill some more of Americans ..for right now the anger is against Americans, isn't it? After Afghanistan. Earlier, Israel was the nation that was counted as the main enemy, but since Americans stood by it, Americans are counted as enemies too. So did that movie maker do his country any favors by doing what he did? Didnt he think he would be uniting a religion against the entire world? For what? Kiling, massacres, destruction? I'd understand if we united to form a force that built something but uniting for wars? Seemingly small mistake has severe repercussions so it should be treated as a serious sin. I would issue no trial type of life imprisonment for such people. That way people would start behaving perhaps.

Sometimes I think if I have to say I believe in god as often, then I truly dont believe in him. I am merely trying to hypnotize myself by chanting that I believe in him when all my being and logics tell me otherwise. Fanaticism is practiced only by non-believers.

Well, I honestly got lost in that second paragraph. I mean..I wish you had written it simpler for me to understand. And I dont know anything about John Chapter 10 and chapter 14 verse 6 of New Testament. So will you please explain.

JohnRok..I feel it is not right to speak of religion in places where people of other religion are there. Simple etiquette actually. If you have people who do not know your language but you know their language, wouldnt you talk to them in their language instead of carrying on a conversation in the other language with somebody who knows the language? So to me such topics are taboo. As to Jesus, I feel god who is love incarnate as Jesus mentions elsewhere can be as punitive. Imagine people trying to spread the word of god. There might be dont get an opportuny to become christians.Does it mean they will go to hell? I dont think so.

Sorry Vandana, it is a bit complicated. What I was trying to say is that if a particular religion happens to be the true religion, and the only true religion, you can't expect it to say that other religions are also true. It may be tolerant, in the sense of treating followers of other religions as their neighbours and definitely not persecuting them, but to tell them they are also completely right is tolerance taken too far. They have to tell people who are wrong that they are wrong and where they are wrong and why. In the 10th chapter of John's Gospel, Jesus Christ tells His disciples that He is the door of the sheepfold, and anyone who enters, but not by the door is a thief and a robber. He says also that He is the Shepherd of the Sheep. In John 14 verse 6 He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except by Me". By the Father, He means God the Father. And by Father, in this context, He does not mean that God impregnates a woman, but that He is eternally related to Him (Jesus) as Father to Son. So when God the Son becomes a human being and takes human sin upon Him, He suffers an infinite punishment in a finite time for the sins of His people.

I am not going to agree to the suggestion that muslim friends be calm against a wrong that is done by somebody else. I think we need to cut down on such provocations that can have serious repercussions, especially the ones related to religions. The wrong should be corrected at both ends. Isn't it? So if the US government takes stern measures to see that its citizens lives are not jeopardized due to undesirable behavior of the movie maker, then corresponding repentence might be forthcoming. But if the US government dissociates itself saying it is freedom of speech, they are going to see it is freedom of action. Impasse reached. Like we held Afghanistan and Taliban responsible for Osama Bin Laden's and Al Quaida, it is understandable that they are holding other US citizens and the US responsible for what happened. How can we have different ways to measure similar things. This is much smaller size crime because fewer innocents have lost lives in this. In Afghanistan, many from US troops lost their lives. They should have focused only on Bin Laden and Al Quaida if they felt it was their doing. Why other innocents in Afghanistan?

Hatley ..if American movie maker who is a single person is bad and all Americans are not, then terrorists who demolished WTCs are bad, all Muslims are not, isn't it? I agree a lot of ignorance is there in them, which is fanned by priests and politicians from everywhere..including our politicians and priests. We most certainly dont need additional reasons for creating such issues. But we are providing. I think if a sentence or statement provokes deeper emotions and such facts are known or believed already then some serious punishment is due against it, like immediately pushing the movie maker behind the bars for life, without any further rights to fair trial because he tried to create disharmony which could have led to life loss and have led to life loss. Finally I agree with AidaLily's statement..Most muslims are probably gentle and do not advocate killing.... In this context, I would like to add Hatley we have had several Muslim leaders attacking us incessantly before the East India Company completely took over the country. They demolished temples, and built their mosques instead. However, they did not convert Hindus to muslims, when they could have done so very easily. Hindus remained a majority during and after their reign, which indicates that they have been religion tolerant.

Bellis..within that muslim group there are two varieties. One that is normal and one that is fanatic. It is the fanatic that tries do the convert or die trick or encourage the terrorism. But other group is much more contemporary lot with values quite like us. Then there is an in between group that does not defy the fanatics fearing something wrong will be done to them or their loved ones. We Hindus too have our set of fanatics. The difference between Hindu fanatics and muslim fanatics is that Hindus have not been spreading the religion so they are not viewed as competitors. Consequently they do not invite anger or hatred or dislike or ridicule. But muslims do when they say there is only one god and that is Allah. Even I feel like saying oh yeah? he cant be much of god if my god managed to give me two eyes, two hands, two legs, and virtually everything that your god gave you. I add..if all muslims were Indeed bad, we would not have had any Hindus alive in India. As things stand, only some were forcibly converted. Rest were safe under the shelter of more religiously tolerant rulers. This is the reason majority of population in India remained Hindu. Pity now we have fanatics refusing to acknowledge that. I reiterate - if majority of muslims were not tolerant of another religion, number of Hindus in India would have come down over a period of more than 300 years rule. Not everybody spreads religion. :) Some set examples. :)

Hello my friend vandana7 Ji, Well, I think this is the best policy to keep others engaged , so taht you can have lot of spare time to enjoy. Very well done. May God bless You and have a great time

Perverted pleasure..look how I made monkeys dance..kind of thing..

My dear fellow brown friend..we the wise ..can we ever manage to make world a peaceful place before we leave?

I think we need billions more of us to make it happens...

Exactly, that is why what has happened cant be undone. But it can be prevented in future by having strict laws in place on freedom of speech and acts that can lead to similar things in future and more loss of lives of fellow citizens.