Do you think the super rich should be paying more taxes?
By Pose123
@Pose123 (21635)
Canada
November 14, 2012 6:01pm CST
The old saying about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is just as true today as it ever was, in fact more so. In America alone, there were more than 1000 millionaires created every day between the end of 2008 and the end of 2011 – this at a time when the unemployment rate at one point reached 10.3 percent. Worldwide, if the trend continues, it is expected that the number of millionaires will increase by about 18 million to 46 million by 2017. The super-rich are currently hiding away wealth estimated between $21 trillion and $32 trillion in tax havens such as Switzerland and the Cayman Islands while those on low incomes are strictly monitored by the state and are badgered for their tax payments.
Those hardest hit by tax evasion are developing countries. In the past 40 years the wealthiest citizens from 139 developing countries hid away non-declared assets estimated at $7.3 trillion to $9.3 trillion in tax havens. Their offshore assets are known to be greater than the national debt of their respective countries and play a major role in the lack of money to finance urgently needed health and education programs in their home countries. It is believed by many that Global social inequality today is not only much more pronounced than all the official statistics show, but It has, in global terms, reached levels unprecedented in human history.
Should this be allowed to continue? Will we someday see a revolution such as that which overthrew most of the monarchies in Europe in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries?
5 people like this
24 responses
@Mattxu (62)
• China
15 Nov 12
I agree with what you have said. In our society, the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. I think we should increase the tax of the rich and reduce the tax of the poor. We should use the tax from the rich to help those who still can't get access to the normal education and medical. We should use more money to help those people , so we need more tax from the rich. It means the justice in the world. We also need to hit the tax evasion of the rich severely punish the tax evaders.
As what you have said, we may need a revolution to reform our society.
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
15 Nov 12
What is happening now is the Rich are paying most of the taxes and the "poor" are getting back all the taxes with held and they also get the earned income tax credit. So the rich are paying more and the poor are getting more than than they paid in. How would you make the tax system fairer? Would you want to take (steal) from the rich and give to the poor? Is you idea to give to the poor every year.
There is a famous proverb that says Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for ever. 0r give a man money and he depends on you, teach him to work and produce and he depends on himself.
2 people like this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
21 Nov 12
Hi Mattxu, Thank you for sharing those thoughts. I don't think that we need a revolution, just a fairer tax system. It is my fear that if the change doesn't come fast enough, and there is no sign of it yet, then there will be a revolution. Right now the middle class are paying far more than their share. The working poor also pay their share. We need to find a way to put everyone who can working. The sick, the disabled and seniors on fixed incomes, need to be treated better than they are now. The problem is that many of the super rich are paying no taxes at all and that has to change. The richest families in the world are rich because their great-grandparents were successful in business - some were crooked too but that's another story. No one should be allowed to hide billions in a foreign country, so they don't have to pay taxes in the country in which they live. I am not against anyone being rich, providing they got their riches honestly, and are paying their fair share of taxes, Sadly, few are doing that. Lets hope that we can get people to understand and bring in some sweeping changes without having to resort to more violence. Blessings.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
15 Nov 12
No, I don't.
Here's my question to you:
What do you think you would achieve by raising taxes on the rich?
As far as I can tell the only reason anyone wants to raise taxes on the rich is out of jealousy and a desire to punish them for being successful.
2 people like this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
21 Nov 12
Hi taskr, Thank you for sharing your thoughts but surely you don't agree with the super rich hiding their billions in a foreign country, just so they don't have to pay taxes in the country in which they live. We all have a right to our opinion of course, but I think the world is in for some big changes and it won't be pretty. Will it be an better? I don't know but certainly not in the beginning. I am not jealousy of the rich or of their success and I know that many do pay taxes. Blessings.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
15 Nov 12
I don't know why the powers that be can't see their way to cutting loopholes and subsidies, which really are nothing more than political favors and pay backs for campaign donations! If it's a simple raise taxes on the wealthiest at a uniform rate, those who do not see their way to 'bribing' our politicians are the ones who will be carrying the major part of the load. Simply do away with those loopholes and un-needed subsidies.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Nov 12
Hi flowerchilde, Thank you for sharing but isn't it the rich that take advantage of those loopholes? The poor can't be expected to pay very much but they must be looked after. I see the middle class as carrying most of the burden while the super rich are allowed to keep their billions. Blessings.
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
24 Nov 12
Tax the rich, they will leave the country and we will get no, zero, nothing, out of them while right now they are paying aroudn 80% of the taxes. What will you do when they leave.
IN the 1990's people and companies left California because of the high taxes. They just voted to raise the taxes higher yet. So let's see if more will leave or if it works for them. This will be a big test of raising taxes works or not.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
15 Nov 12
For the super-duper rich, the people who can "hide" all their money and such, I think it'd be a wiser bet to close up those loopholes and to reformulate (read: uncomplicate) the tax code so that they're more inclined to put that money in America's economy.
I wouldn't accuse people who want higher taxes of using the government as a charity, but I do know that there are many people who do believe our federal government is America's great charity. They're supposed to be in charge of evening out the playing field and helping to pull people out of poverty.
But when it comes to government, it really, truly, honestly seems to be incredibly inept at nearly everything it does, save the young men and women putting their lives on the line serving in our armed forces. For the regular government, though, everything from the postal service to disaster relief is inefficient overall.
Sure, people still get their mail! Some people still receive much-needed help from organizations like FEMA. But there's also a lot of waste and inefficiency there.
My great "fear"--I suppose that's a good word for it--is that enabling government to tax more and spend more is going to send a signal that we don't care about a waste-happy, inefficient government.
Just as Obama and liberals believe his reelection gives him a mandate to enact the sort of policies they want, giving in and eating the rich is going to enable government to do much worse.
If government were to start pulling in more revenue, what would they do with it?
Would it go to where it's needed? If so, why didn't the previous stimulus spending make a bigger splash?
I'm too cynical at this point to believe government taxing more for more revenue is going to do any good. I believe it's going to lead to more spending and more waste and more problems.
As to the whole "unprecedented in human history" bit, I'm not sure I buy that. But my beliefs there don't matter. What matters is what some people propose we do about it. Take from those who do have it to give it to those who don't?
The people in charge of taking always seem to be the ones to win out in that scenario.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
15 Nov 12
Hi matersfish, Thank you for responding and you have explained your position quite well. I agree that governments everywhere waste money and there are far too many loopholes. Governments too, need to be more accountable to the people but there will always be different opinions as to the best way to spent our tax dollars. I realize too that the system is far more complicated than most of us comprehend. I still feel however that everyone must pay their share and the rich have always been good at avoiding the taxman. Blessings.
@lacieice (2060)
• United States
15 Nov 12
I really have mixed thoughts on this. The idea that the rich need tax breaks so they can invest and improve the economy and hire more workers is a grand idea, and its been called the trickle down theory. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for the most part. It seems to me that the rich have tax breaks and loopholes that enable them to put their money in off-shore accounts and not pay taxes on that money at all.
I think they should eliminate all the loophols and tax breaks and then the rich would be paying their fair share. The only ones who should get tax breaks would be the ones who can prove they are trying to improve their businesses in order to hire more people.
I don't think a flat tax for all would work. It sure wouldn't hurt the super rich, who can afford to buy whatever they wan regardless of the cost, but what about the people who can't even afford to buy clothing and nexessities now? They would be devastaded.
I'm a simple person. I don't know a lot about economy and such. But I know what's right. I don't receive food stamps or madicaid. I do get social security and medicare, but I have paid for that for years. They are not entitlements.
We struggle through the month, most of the time running out of money before the month is over. A flat tax would crush us, so I tend to feel that the tax code needs to be redone to prevent those who have money from hiding it and not paying taxes on it.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
29 Nov 12
Hi lacieice, Thank you for sharing and I think you make a good point. The trickle down system just doesn't work because it's built on the idea that the rich actually care about how the ordinary person lives. I'm sure that a few of them do, but not enough ever trickles down. It is really a ridiculous system that we need to get rid of in the twenty-first century. Blessings.
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
15 Nov 12
As taxes go up on the rich, the rich actually start moving out. There have been many who have given up their US citizenship and moved to other countries with lower taxes.
Another point that everyone forgets is that the rich invest their money. Where? Generally in the same thing where they made their money in the first place. This is usually in business that in return hire other people to work for them...What did I just say???
We need the rich people money going in to businesses that hire others. This money is used better than paying the taxes, which does not bring in any returns in its investment.
One of the big factors lately is that they are investing the money in foreign countries right now. Many in countries that are building their infrastructure. Many underdeveloped worlds are showing great potential for investments in infrastructure type business and this is where the growth exists.
Our government does not have a income problem, it has a spending problem We grow from 20% GDP spending to 28% spending in thet government sector. This is way too much spending.
Every dollar the government takes in as taxes is onevless dollar that does not circulates around our economy.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Nov 12
Hi Fatcat, Thank you for sharing but I think the rich are only interested in keeping their billions. Yes, money is being wasted, especially on the military, but there is much more that every country needs to do for it's citizens. I do not believe that the rich are paying their fair share in taxes. We need honest politicians that can't be bought. Blessings.
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
24 Nov 12
In order to keep their money, they have to make over 3-4% return just to stay with inflation. Therefore, make money, they want about 7% return on their money.
And the rich are paying about 80% of the taxes now, so even with paying 805, their are still not paying enough taxes?
The money they invested into corporations are already taxed about about 35%.. This iwhy they have kept the capital gains taxes down to 15%, so that the total taxes paid on the money ends up to be 59%. Fifty percent of their money is going to the government.
Every dollar the government takes out as taxes, reduces the money in our economy for grwoth. The government money does not produce growth.
We need honest politicians that will cut government spending, keep taxes down, and helpt the economy grow. Our politicians are only looking at what they have to do for the people they represent, and we allow them to sell out to us by giving us freebies. This has to stop. They have to do what ir right, So this is why we cannot get a honest politicians. Any politicians that would say to their districts, ypu are getting more money that you should, we will cut down on the money, will never be elected.
@wolfie34 (26771)
• United Kingdom
16 Nov 12
Some would say that British Royalty is an unnecessary expense, and whether we still need a monarchy? I think the problem is with the way rich people can hide wealth or find legal loopholes to place their money which cannot be touched by the taxpayer, swiss bank accounts and other such places. I do feel the onus should be on the government, maybe if we stopped wasting so much money on bombs and armourments and giving politicians golden handshakes, extortionate expenses and high wages then the money could be spread around more!
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
29 Nov 12
Hi wolfie, That is an excellent point. We need to stop the waste of military spending, and start working for peace. Politicians too are paid far too much. The argument has always been that you won't get good people into politics unless you pay them well. Well, look at what that idea has given us! If we cut the salaries in half, we would likely get better people. Close those loopholes too and make the rich pay their full share. As for British Royalty, I personally would not want to see it go, but I'm sure that changes can be made to make it much less expensive. I understand that the Queen is now paying taxes. Blessings.
@sukumar794 (5040)
• Thiruvananthapuram, India
15 Nov 12
Since tax levied from higher sections of society it is the rich man's duty to pay back his taxes on time. Tax revenue is much important to the exchequer of any nation. The smooth functioning of state administration is largely dependent on tax money secured from the rich people of society anywhere.
1 person likes this
@mzz663 (2772)
• United States
15 Nov 12
I think it is true that the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. The one thing that I have read and think makes perfect sense is to abolish the income tax and make a flat tax for everyone, in things that we buy new.
Everyone would end up paying the same tax, depending on what they buy.
If I had all of the income tax money right now that I paid into, I would have plenty of money to go buy other things and make the economy stronger!
Here is a better description of how it would work: http://americanfreepress.net/html/traficant_abolishirs_040910.html
1 person likes this
@lampar (7584)
• United States
17 Nov 12
The super rich should pay their fair share of the taxes collected by the government, it is just about all one should expect their elected government can do to treat every citizen fairly. At least when the super rich is paying their fair share of the burden in a nation building, they will continue to reap enormous benefit from the economy prosperity compare to the poor; hardcore poors and the rest of the population far into the future. They shouldn't be asked to pay extremely high tax and several time more than other if possible, but pay reasonably higher rate than the average tax payers so that fairness can be prevailed. A tax system that base their revenue collection system on equal ground is the best way forward for the nation's economy and encourage individual work harder to achieve greater wealth .
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
17 Nov 12
That cycle is the way of the world for sure. It takes money to make money and if you are struggling to get by there is no way to get ahead.
I think it would be very beneficial to not only the poor but for the country as a whole if more attention was given to the people stashing money all over the world. What is there to really gain from badgering someone for say $5000 when there is someone that may owe 100,000? Now I understand the thought processes mentioned earlier in your discussion about the desire to succeed and the fact that they might try to hide more than what they are now, but I also think that giving them accountability and leveling the playing grounds for others that want to start businesses might have a positive effect too.
1 person likes this
@changjiangzhibin89 (16758)
• China
17 Nov 12
It amazes me to learn what you said.You seem to have a good knowledge of world economy .I think the more the super rich have ,the less they pay the tax.They know well how to tax evasion,in addition,money makes the mare go,they can buy off tax collectors.
1 person likes this
@averygirl72 (37845)
• Philippines
15 Nov 12
Could it be that the government and the business capitalist are all hiding something from the general public when it comes to the filing of income tax and the honest use of government funds? I see the rich gets richer because they are obsessed with money and their money piles up everyday but they don't care to share it to the poor who is powerless to accumulate money instead they are even abused by the high prices of commodities. Money is power and those who have more will have more power and influence.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Nov 12
Hi averygirl, Thank you for sharing and you make a good point. The rich are under no obligation to share their wealth but they must be made to pay their fair share of taxes. Not all of the rich are are hiding their wealth where it can't be taxed, but many of the super rich are doing just that. The old saying that the more you get the more you want is very true. I think that most of the problem is greed. Blessings.
@KOSTAS499 (1624)
• Greece
15 Nov 12
I can only speak for my country. Rich people find ways NOT to pay taxes. One of the main reasons the country is in crisis now. And politicians look away, as long as they fill their own pockets.
So, the rich get richer. Plus, they make deals with the state, which means they give little and get back millions.
Will we have a revolution like the one in Europe you ask? I believe not. People are divided into parties in each country. They do not see the common enemy. Whenever we have strikes in Greece, you will see people divide in parties while fighting for the same problems. Politicians have divided us, they are winning......unfortunately...
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
15 Nov 12
When you talk about the developing countries you are talking about most countries that are totally controlled by one person or one family. To compare their with the people in the democracies of the world is wrong. Those people get rich by taking from every one they can. In the democracies they get rich by taking a risk and developing a product or service that people want and are willing to pay for. They don't get their money by taking it from someone else.
In the USA the rich do pay more than their fair share of taxes and we have about 1/2 of the population that pays no taxes or gets back more than is with held by the government. Is that fair to not pay taxes but get more back than was with held and yet many of the same people also receive over 60% of the government aid for the poor?
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
21 Nov 12
Hi bobmnu, Thank you for sharing and I'm familiar with your side of the argument as well, but we are all entitled to our opinion.It is true however that there are many rich families in democracies like Canada and the Us that keep their billions in foreign countries rather than pay taxes in the country in which they live. There are also those who pay no taxes at all. I think that everyone should pay their fair share but I think the middle class are carrying more than their share of the burden. We need to have everyone who is able to work, working and paying taxes. The disabled and those on fixed incomes should be well taken care off. The problem of course, is it's practically impossible to achieve full employment anywhere. I have nothing against the rich but they should pay their full share of taxes. Blessings.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Nov 12
Should the rich pay more taxes? Yes & no. Get rid of the word "tax", reform the system (including how it's collected, not just loopholes), offer the rich good, worthwhile incentives to invest in the good of the country (I personally would feel ashamed in parking all that money in overseas tax shelters & given that, at a guess, many of the rich would be quite patriotic & must be feeling somewhat frustrated that they can get good returns overseas, but not in their own country)... and (in the same breath) let every individual know just exactly what every dollar of their contribution has done for the good of the country (government accountability).
I remember an old story from my childhood of how the sun & the wind went into competition to see who could make a man take his coat off first. The wind blew as hard as it liked, but this only made the man wrap his coat around him tighter. The sun shone as it always has & pretty soon the sensible fellow was persuaded to take off his coat. In the same way, governments can try as hard as they can, but they're not likely to be too successful in forcing the rich to bring their money back from overseas & pay taxes to a government that they know spends their money less wisely than themselves. The whole idea is very negative & regressive and "oh so last century's". We need less of the "stick" approach & more of the "carrot" approach. I think many of us lack the courage to create such a system & make it work. Governments should do more facillitating & less restricting, I feel. I can understand that most people don't know exactly how the rich spend their money, but then again, most people aren't aware of exactly how their government is spending their money (which isn't really theirs) either. There should be some accountability on both sides, I feel, as well as flexibility & communication - in a continous sense. I would like to see my tax money go towards certain areas, instead of being pumped into animal product industries input subsidies, for example. If I knew for sure exactly where my money was & wasn't going, then I'd be happier to part with it.
I'm not sure how the overthrow of Europe's monarchies relates to the situation we see today. Either way, I think the conditions are very different & people today are much better informed.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
17 Nov 12
And it is just as unfair to allow those who make under a certain level to pay NO taxes and even to get part of what others paid as EIC.
I don't see how taking from one to give to the other is right, ever.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Nov 12
Oh man! Now who looks silly, eh?
Just found the article from a more reliable source...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/fail-anti-obama-teen-wants-to-move-to-australia-because-we-have-christian-male-president/story-e6frf7jo-1226512853271
...with sincere apologies to the good people of Arizona!
Lesson for the day: never let Aussies get involved in American politics!
2 people like this
@ARMillerWolfe (12)
• United States
17 Nov 12
I believe that every person should pay taxes according to their income.
For example, if tax is 10% and you go to a store to buy a 1.00 item, you pay 10 cents, if you buy a 5.00 item, you pay 50 cents.
Likewise, if income tax is 20 percent and you make 1000.00 you should be taxed 200.00, if you make 10,000.00 you should be taxed 2000.00 and so on..
Tax cuts for people who have more is not only unfair, but it makes it impossible for the working class to ever get ahead.
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
15 Nov 12
Hi Pose. I don't believe in treating the rich differently than the regular working folk. What I mean is that they should pay taxes according to their tax brackets and percentages and deductions just like we do. If we work a legal job, we pay taxes. We pay according to the state and federal tax laws.
Business owners do get to take deductions. They also have to pay health insurance for the employees too. I don't believe in penalizing the rich just because they are rich. I never got a job from a poor person; this I feel that the rich are alreading carrying most of the load. If the government puts too much stress on the rich business owners, then people lose their jobs when they lay people off or fire all their workers and outsource all the work.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
21 Nov 12
Hi PointlessQuestions, Thank you for commenting and I'm familiar with that side of the argument as well, and of course you have a point. Some of the rich are paying their fair share of taxes as the present system is set up, but many are not. I can never agree with putting your billions in a foreign country's banks, so that you don't have to pay taxes in the country where you live. It isn't right that the middle class have to bear the biggest share of the tax burden. Loopholes in the system always favor the rich as well. I don't think that things will continue like this much longer. Will it be better? I don't know but I think change is coming. Blessings.
@robspeakman (1700)
•
15 Nov 12
Those Occupy halfwits will have the sheep like masses that all rich people hide their money to avoid paying tax - This isn't the case. Let us assume that we all pay our tax at 25% - on my salary I would.pay approx £7500 in tax every year, if someone was earning £1million a year they would pay £250000 in tax. They by default pay more tax - do we really have Right to ask them for more? Never forget that the rich also tend to be employers.... Tax they too high and the will.take the jobs elsewhere. Many people that complain about the rich also buy lottery tickets.so that they can be rich one day - that does not seem right to me
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
15 Nov 12
Hi robspeakman, Thank you for your response and I'm sure that all the rich don't hide their money in tax shelters but most probably do. I agree that if the situation was reversed it would be the same. If most of those who complain were to suddenly become rich, they would look for tax shelters to, but would that make it right? Blessings.
@habibti320 (925)
• United States
15 Nov 12
I don't think that there is a simple solution. I agree that tax loopholes need to be dealt with. Various government programs should be examined to see where they can be made more efficient and useful. We can also cut down on military spending.
Also, not extending some of the Bush-era tax cuts wouldn't "raise" taxes, but it would just get rid of certain incentives that benefitted the upper classes. We should also work on creating more real businesses in America.
1 person likes this
@writethem (96)
• United States
15 Nov 12
The rich already pay most of the taxes. Everyone should keep most of what they earn, no matter how much you make.
1 person likes this