John 1:10 how do you read this?

" He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. " Do you mean that this vers talk about Jesus (PBUH).

http://bible.cc/john/1-10.htm I was reading the above commentaries & could not find anything to suggest that man cannot come to know Jesus by his own choice. So you were right to hold such a viewpoint in such regard. I noted that this verse repeats verse three, but adds more detail. I also noted a very interesting point which also supports my view, that being that in the original Greek, the first mention of "him" refers to the light form or the word - in essence, the soul or "inner man" of Jesus, whereas the second mention of "him" is entirely different & refers to the very earthy, male physical form of Jesus the human being. Do you believe, at this point, in reincarnation, Urban? I believe it was the soul, the light form, the "inner man" of Jesus which created the universe & that same light form or soul has incarnated in many physical forms (eg, through the prophets) over the generations over the entire course of history of this earth as it chooses. As such, your final view is also encompassed by this.

Hi Urban I don't have any problems with a far more 'simple' reading. The context is that this is an introduction to an overview of Christianity, or more specifically exactly who Jesus was. He starts by saying Christ has existed since the beginning of time, moves on to talk about John the Baptist, and then onto Jesus coming into the world. In this context, I believe John is saying 'Jesus, this same person who was present and actively involved in creation, came into the world anonymously'. In fact the NIV uses the phrase 'the world did not recognize him' which I think conveys the meaning more accurately. Verse 11 repeats this concept, he came to that which was his own (creation), but his own (creation ie. man) did not receive him. Of course it is talking about mankind in general, because it then says 'To all who received him...' (v.12) indicating that there were a few who 'recognized' him. Whether one can 'find' Jesus without supernatural help is a difficult one because it can start to sound like a chicken and egg discussion crossed with a predestination argument. IE: What if I am ready, but the Holy Spirit is not active in my life, or the Holy Spirit is ready, but I just don't get it at the time?

How shall they believe unless they hear....Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Believing is an act of will. I don't have access to a Koine Greek translation, but perhaps a study on the word KNOW ?? The verse I offered here implies that we must KNOW Jesus by the action of will. Also, is the 'world' meaning mankind, or the natural world meaning 'earth' or 'nature'?

looking at the greek transliterated version, as interpretations are always difficult because we are dependent on what the translator thinks it means. the biggest difference between that and the kjv version is the difference between the world was made by him, and the world was made through him. as if the world was made through him he has a more passive role, whereas if the world was made by him, than he is the creator of the world, and god. which is a common christian interpretation, that jesus was god on earth, which i don't agree with, because if he is then he isn't his son. so depending on which interpretation you prefer, the concept of whether or not the world knew him, (him, i assume, being jesus), then the world not knowing that the world was made through jesus has a more metaphysical meaning, than the world not knowing that it was made by him, which is more literal. so the world not knowing that it was made through him offers more interpretative possibilities, in the sense that god must have used jesus to make the world, does it mean make the world from the beginning of time, or make the world in the sense that he changed so much of it, by his presence. then, the concept, to me, of the world not knowing, both becomes harder and easier to interpret. as the world did not know that jesus had made it makes sense, as large numbers of people rejected him, and did not fully understand, that while on earth, jesus was "making" the world as a vessel of god. so if god used jesus to make the world, and the world didn't know, then to me it makes sense that way. so its not, in my view, about an individuals relationship with jesus, or god, but about the world's collective relationship with jesus, which was to not really understand what he was doing. now i've confused myself, but it is interesting.

I think I agree with you urban. I've never heard it translated to meaning that we can't come to know Jesus (although I'm far from a scholar on the subject). I think it would reference to the past, but I also believe it speaks about today. Just as in the past, some people do know Jesus. But many others do not. And just like in the past, Jesus is with us today. Just not in the same form as in the past. I think it also refers to today and the many people who say there is no evidence that Jesus/God exists. But the fact is, the evidence is all around us. In the world.

I am so glad that I am Jewish...

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." (John 1:10) It simply means the Lord Jesus is co-creator with God the father. And He live in this world. He assumed the role of man for the very purpose that He wanted to save mankind from the doom of hell but the world (the people) did not recognize and refuse to recognize his deity, and His saving grace. John 6:44 is the verse that says "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." - Man by his own choice simply deny God, because man is sinful in nature and would not by himself seek God but God is good and still provides way for salvation by drawing us unto the Savior. As Matthew Henry commented "The gospel finds none willing to be saved in the humbling, holy manner, made known therein; but God draws with his word and the Holy Ghost; and man's duty is to hear and learn; that is to say, to receive the grace offered, and consent to the promise."

It means simply that the majority of the people in the world did not know Jesus as the soon of God. The majority of the people in the world today  still do not know Him.

Is the truth more-true if you know it?

There are a number of verses in the Bible from which you can deduce the doctrine of the Total Depravity of man (i.e., that man is depraved in all his faculties). This isn't one of them.

Even with or without the support of other verses, it's very vague to understand that particular verse. "He was in the world" - meaning he came from here. "The world was made by him" - God created the world. "The world knew him not" - God is a spirit, cannot be seen by our naked eyes so majority cannot acknowledged his existence.

I think that verse was written to make fun of Jehova`s witnesses because the way i read it is that our Creator came on Earth as Jesus Christ. To answer your question i think it is a combination between individual effort and God`s grace.Or sometimes only God`s grace but individual effort is never enough to know God, no matter how many times you read that book.

i have a question, what i know is that Jesus is the son of God so, it means that there is higher power than Jesus. i have viewed some of the response of this discussion, and mentioned Jesus as the creator?? i think God the creator is really different from Jesus the son of God.

He created the world and when the time he was here no one believed in him.

That passage---it's kind of a Mobius-strip (a strip of paper taped to form a loop after twisting it & taping the edge of the flipped-side to the edge of the non-flipped side, so that the loop has no inside-side nor outside-side ... if you 'tell people about it,' they still won't know what you're talking about---unless they know what a Mobius-strip is ...) But as for 'how you can know Jesus': I look at it more the way G-d was said to 'create' the things of the universe---by 'letting them be.' If you just 'let Jesus be Jesus,' you can say you "know" Jesus.

urbandekay I just think it means some people in the world don't know God but if people sought Him they would know Him...