Obamacare and Your Investments
By chrystalia
@chrystalia (1208)
Tucson, Arizona
December 9, 2012 1:45am CST
After spending about an hour translating the latest 150 some odd pages of documentation at
www.irs.gov pertaining to the first Obamacare taxes (I wish those guys would write in English over there) I have figured it out. I already wrote a discussion about the medical device tax, but some further information has come to light on that issue: According to one medical device company, since those taxes are imposed on pure gross sales, the actual impact will be about 15%--rather than the tax amount. To put it in ordinary terms--normally, a tax is imposed on a product, like a table, one of two ways. If a table is sold wholesale, for resale purposes, the person buying the table doesn't pay a tax when they buy it, only when they sell it--the sales tax imposed by the state it is sold in. They also pay their standard corporate taxes on their adjusted gross--their profit--each year, of course. The company who makes that table pays corporate taxes on their total sales--but NOT on pure "gross" sales.Ordinary corporate taxes are paid on adjusted gross--profit, in other words. But not this time. As an example, in ordinary cases, company ABC sells 100,000 dollars worth of product, and makes 40,000 in profit (very profitable company, wish it were mine LOL). The 3.2% medical device tax would have only been applied to the 40,000. Now, it will be applied to the 100,000. Some analysts are speculating that this new tax will cost the industry over 40,000 jobs.
Additionally, one company has already shelved plans to open several new manufacturing facilities.
Now on to investments--this is for the 2%, so to speak. Starting 1 January, if you are a single person making over 200,000 a year or a couple making over 250,000 a year, all of your income from investments that is over those base levels will be taxed 3.8%. It gets complicated: if, for instance, you are a couple that makes 220,000 a year in standard income, and 50,000 a year in investment income, then 20,000 of your investment income will be taxed at this additional rate (the other 30,000 is still below the 250,000 figure)--on top of your ordinary taxes for making a total of 270,000. Which means, if those terrible Bush tax cuts expire, your actual taxes on your investment income will more than double. Quite a bite.
By the way, those lucky people will also be paying an extra .9% medicare taxes on their regular income. Makes me glad I'm no longer in that group. By the way, those are just the first of the taxes kicking in, the 2013. there are more coming in 2014-2020.
2 people like this
6 responses
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
13 Dec 12
yep--and I don't know about you but I didn't get flowers, candy, dinner and a kiss first, either...
1 person likes this
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
15 Dec 12
Not to mention doing all the laundry as well--but cheer up, at least we get to look forward to the same cavalier treatment, over and over, until 2020 at least. Don't you just love this relationship?
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Dec 12
and had to change the sheets myself!
1 person likes this
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
9 Dec 12
I too have been trying to keep up with all of the new taxes linked to the obamderthalcare tax bill, but I searched you link and did not find what you referenced.
People need to be aware of what is going on. Everyday when you look up information on obamderthalcare, you find a new tax or regulation. When they passed this 'tax', they did not put any information in the bill; they passed an idea and are now adding more and more taxes daily.
There are so many regs that no one is every going to be able to get it right, because there is no way to know everything. I know CPA's that are getting out of the business because they do not want the liability of getting it wrong. Even they cannot keep up with all of the additions and daily changes. The government does not even know what is going on.
1 person likes this
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
It generally takes at least 10 minutes to find anything on the IRS website--there is a lot of stuff buried there. I will try to find a link directly to the new regulation. They actually put all the information in the bill--I have it stored in my computer. The way these spending bills work is Congress writes in exhaustive detail where the money will come from and what it will be used for, and then those portions that will come from taxation are turned over to the IRS--which then begins writing the hundreds of pages required to implement those new taxes. Even though the law passed in 2010 (just barely), the IRS is just now getting around to writing up the new code called for in the law--they apparently have had other things to do, or something.
A lot of accountants are getting out over this--pretty soon we will have a shortage of accountants, because the tax law is so impossible to work with. Spend an hour or to at the IRS website and you have a headache for days--it's unreal. Insane. Boggles the mind. The government never knows what's going on anyway. Government and reality are two mutually exclusive terms, in my opinion.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
10 Dec 12
I have read an awefull lot on the obamderthalcare mess. I do stay up to date on as much as I can. My problem is that I cannot sit long enough to search for stuff right now...I just had extensive back surgery and can not find any chair to sit in for very long...This limits internet use right now big time... I am hoping that it gets better REAL soon.
1 person likes this
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
Youch, back surgery!?! Not good. I hope you get better soon, as well. Even if I stayed awake and online, 24/7, I couldn't begin to keep up with everything happening now, much less trying to re-learn everything I lost to the amnesia. I split my research time half and half between picking up on the lost years and figuring out what is up now--and for the life of me I can't figure out how we got from "then" to "now". It makes less than no sense to me. Our government is such a shambles, as is the country.
Take care of your back, and get better--hopefully you won't have as much difficulty now. I can't even imagine back surgery *shudder*
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
31 Dec 12
Personally this is all speculations and only time will tell if this will really going to be a good thing or bad thing for people, businesses and creating jobs. I am hoping overall that this will be a good thing and only time will tell.
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
31 Dec 12
Personally this is all speculations and only time will tell if this will really going to be a good thing or bad thing for people, businesses and creating jobs. I am hoping overall that this will be a good thing and only time will tell.
@mehale (2200)
• United States
12 Dec 12
Honestly I am not surprised. I think most people that support the bill simply saw the government "giving" them healthcare and did not stop to ask where the money would come from or how much it would cost. Which, unfortunately is what the government was hoping for. We will see many more exensive disadvantages to this new law before it is all said and done.....I wonder if the supporters will be as happy about it then?
@mehale (2200)
• United States
13 Dec 12
I agree with you about it being a total mess. I am still doing some research into the bill and what all it will entail myself. So far I am not any more happy with it than I was when they passed it. I am afraid that this is not what we needed as healthcare reform at all, and now we are in even further need of reform....sigh,but then again since when does our government actually get something like this right, lol. I guess we should be used to that by now.
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
13 Dec 12
Probably not--and now the democrats are talking about "postponing" the medical device tax they passed in the danged bill (since it will cripple medical device companies). The bill is a mess. I am still researching how badly it will impact care for disabled children that is paid for through FSAs...
1 person likes this
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
15 Dec 12
We should be used to it by now--the government is incapable of efficiency, in most respects. This is going to turn into the USPS of healthcare--especially since the taxes they have already started aren't bringing in the money they expected, the medicare "cuts" they made, all 700 billion or so, aren't "cuts" at all--they are decreases in expected future spending, for the most part--and now they are talking about delaying the implementation of the medical device taxes they were counting on to fund this thing until the fines for non-coverage and keeping private insurance kick in in 2014. As soon as that dimwit Pelosi said they had to pass it to find out what was in it, I knew we were in big trouble anyway--
@stealthy (8181)
• United States
9 Dec 12
If the doing away of the Bush tax cuts for singles making over $200,000 and families making over $250,000, the 2% as you put, which is what Obama wants, then for those of us who are not in the 2% but have saved and invested could well be hurt also. Although our taxes may not go up since we aren't in the 2%, our investments could lose value for at least the short term and perhaps for a long time. Some of those 2% may have capital gains in their investment holdings and will take them before the end of the year and the tax increase occurs. This could drive the markets down which would affect us non 2% people and people with 402(k)s and income from retirement plans. There are other possibilities also that I won't get into.
1 person likes this
@chrystalia (1208)
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
Absolutely--it will impact every investor, in one way or another. The markets are being artificially driven at the moment, by early dividend releases and a few other factors, and they are due for a correction across many industry sectors. Whether we go over the cliff or not, and even if the Bush cuts are left in place, the Obamacare taxes will impact the markets, for everyone. The impact will be more profound for those who derive the majority of their income from investment interest, of course--which covers a lot of the 2%. Granted, in some parts of the country, you are well off if you make over 200,000 a year as a single, 250,000 as a couple--but in many areas, that doesn't classify you as more than upper middle class. Yet the vast majority of people consider that to be "rich".
Your actual taxes may well go up in the future--as the IRS hasn't even begun to code all the provisions from 2014-2020 in Obamacare. There are a lot of potential "bumps in the road" to be considered here.