Undocumented workers, Organ Transplants, and Public Charity

Tucson, Arizona
December 9, 2012 3:15am CST
An odd group of topics, but bear with me: In Chicago, Loyola did a free kidney transplant for an "undocumented worker"--I'm being polite, the Chicago Tribune called him an illegal alien. www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-illegal-immigrant-kidneytransplant/20121209,0,3537821.story (sorry guys, still can't link, you know). Granted, he got his new kidney from his mom. But he had apparently been on dialysis for years (wonder who paid) and he is raising money to pay the 10,000+ a year for anti rejection drugs. He wondered why he was treated differently--health care should be a human right. His medications will apparently be paid by the Simon Bolivar foundation (look him up, he was a real peach). My best friend needs a kidney, has for years--and I match. BUT--the state of Massachusetts won't take my kidney, even if I sign a pile of forms saying I won't go on the transplant list if something happens to my spare--and the transplant costs would be covered, but drug costs wouldn't be fully covered forever anyway--only 5-7 years. She almost died last year. My God daughter is only 16. That's beside the point. It turns out that two other illegals, brothers who need livers, are now on the list for organs--no clue as to how those will be paid for. How does public Charity fit in here? Lets ask Grover Cleveland: I feel obliged to withhold my approval of the plan to indulge in benevolent and charitable sentiment through the appropriation of public funds...I find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution. This was his Veto of the Texas Seed bill, by the way--to give seed to Texas farmers. It was Cleveland's assertion that existing government programs and private charities should bail out the farmers, not more government money. I wonder how Cleveland would feel about bailouts for businesses? Davy Crockett had this to say: We must not permit our respect for the dead, or our sympathy for the living, to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not attempt to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right as individuals to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress, we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. In this case, Congress wanted to appropriate funds for the widow of a Naval officer. It should be noted that our POTUS didn't even have a pension until Harry Truman was granted one--because he was broke. Not technically charity, because he earned it. The transplant case above is in a grey area for several reasons--while Loyola did this very expensive double surgery for free--Loyola does get federal money. Also, they will find some way to pass on the cost, undoubtedly--probably several ways. So now I am wondering--how many of the entitlement programs that our administration is championing would be considered "charity"? We are endowed, according to the declaration, with certain inalienable rights: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The right to Life does NOT, in my opinion mean the right to a healthy, or perfect, or fair life--it merely means no one can come along and kill you just because (legally anyway). Once you're alive, what you make of your life, and how you live it are your choice. Liberty--freedom. Pure and simple. Pursuit of Happiness--we can try to find things, and do things, that are enjoyable and fruitful from our point of view. I don't see health care on that list. should it be there? While we are adding things, how about the right to shelter? The right to food? The right to an education? To a Living Wage? Well, let's see here--right to food--SNAP/Food stamps. Right to Shelter--HUD/Section 8. Right to health care--Obamacare. Right to education--National Student loans (1 trillion dollars worth are going into default, by the way). Living Wage--The Communists tried it--but just because it didn't work for them doesn't mean we won't try it. Where does entitlement end and charity begin? Or, are we really "entitled" to Anything, other than the big three mentioned?
3 people like this
5 responses
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
9 Dec 12
You mentioned the seed bill in Texas--I recall hearing about that and once they voted it down money came pouring in, exceeding even what had been proposed that the government contribute. Texas was better off without being given public funds. I do not think the government should be supporting anyone or pay for someone's surgery. That is charity and charity is supposed to be freely given. Every time the government does something like this it is no different from someone breaking into our homes or mugging us on the street--they are taking our money without our approval and giving it to someone else. I'm sorry for that illegal alien who needed a kidney but there are citizens like your friend that have needs and can be taxpayers, producers and contributors. It makes me angry that a non-citizen should be given all the advantages and privileges of this country when we deny and tie up in red tape benefits to our own citizens.
2 people like this
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
9 Dec 12
I absolutely agree with this. If the government or hospital is going to help SOMEBODY, why shouldn't it be your friend? Why are they not allowing you to help your friend and instead paying for some undocumented worker who shouldn't even be here? What a huge waste of taxpayer money. HOnestly, taxpayer money should ONLY go to help other taxpayers, who are mostly other citizens who have the right to be here. Non citizens should NEVER get benefits, it should be so miserable for them to be here that they should leave. They complain they can't get anywhere in their own country, well, it should be even WORSE for them here since they only come here to take!
@mariaperalta (19073)
• Mexico
9 Dec 12
Im in mexico and youd be surprised how many husbands are in the usa working. And dont have papers. I get kid sin cafe here, who tell me thier dads have been in usa working for years illegally. They used to come home every year, then go back. But since usa has better border protection. Its to hard and expensive for them to come and go. So many stay in usa, and send money here to families.
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
9 Dec 12
It must be hard for them. While we here in the US resent illegals, our government refuses to do anything to prevent them coming over. So they are prey to Coyotes (people smugglers) and other low life scum. Why don't they apply for a working visa? My son is engaged to a wonderful girl down there and is just starting to investigate how to marry her and move her here legally. I've known illegals in Arizona that work hard and sometimes 5-10 of them live in a single apartment and sleep in shifts so that they can send everything possible back to their families. While this is admirable, I wonder why the people of Mexico don't demand an improvement in their economy so that there are jobs there with living wages? I don't know much about Mexico so maybe I sound ignorant, but I've always wondered why people flee a country rather than try to improve it.
1 person likes this
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
you used to have to know English, have a job waiting for you, have the means to support yourself and a place to live, and in many cases, a sponsor. But somewhere along the way, that has apparently changed. La Raza makes the claim that they want back the territory that used to belong to Mexico, mentioned above. Of course MEXICO, and all the territory mentioned, used to belong to Spain first... so it's a little bit confusing. No offense, but I am allergic to California. Literally, in my case--according to the other half and the kids, every time I have spent more than a day in your state, I end up with my eyes swollen shut, breathing problems, the whole nine yards. Our administrations, past and present, have caused this problem, by not enforcing the immigration standards we used to have--which were decent. I agree this is our country--unfortunately our government doesn't seem to agree with me, or you, or many other people.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
10 Dec 12
I live in California, I have no desire to give MY state back to anybody who never should have come here in the first place lol. I don't believe amnesty is the answer either. People who are NOT criminals who really intend to make a life here should maybe have an easier path to citizenship but NOT amnesty, they should still have to do certain things, pay a fee, be investigated to make SURE they are not criminals or related to any criminal activity, learn English, learn about our constitution, and pledge to uphold it and learn about our culture. America is not Mexico, or Russia, or Israel, and immigrants need to understand that. If you come here, do NOT look down your nose at Americans. This is our country, where we live, where we work, and where we play, and if you think living here is better than where you used to live, then respect that fact and treat the people here well, not like you are owed anything or are better. Nobody who is not a citizen is owed or entitled to ANYTHING in America unless you do what is necessary to become a citizen.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
10 Dec 12
Illegals are not "entitled" to anything except short term intercession in the case of an accident and only until they can be transported to their home country for further medical treatment. Americans are JAILED for entering foreign countries illegally. JAILED!!! The are not fed, housed, paid, medicated, given $500,000 operations for free. They are JAILED!!! and then deported when their sentence is up. AMERICANS in AMERICA do not receive such help for free. Thousands of AMERICAN doctors go to third world countries and provide medical services for FREE. Most of the medical equipment is also provided for free, Many are backed by OUR religious organizations also. Just how much do these freeloaders want? They need to fix the problems in their own countries and leave us alone.
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
No argument here. Of course, I don't think we have the jail room for 10 million people--and the U.N. and the world would scream about civil rights, or crimes against humanity, or something probably. Our government and our various administrations, past and present, are a major part of the problem here--but all of us pay the price.
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
17 Dec 12
I love your post, Adoniah!! I completely agree!! It is so refreshing to see someone else say exactly what I have been saying for years! I end up being around too many bleeding heart people or people who don't want to say that illegals should go home and they try to make me feel bad for having the view I do. I would not be this insistent about it IF we had resources to ensure all our citizens were okay. Since we have so many homeless jobless uneducated citizens, some with health problems, we clearly need to put our focus back on only the people who belong in our country. I get that things appear WORSE in third world countries but I don't understand why we don't fix ALL OUR PROBLEMS HERE FIRST! Give that free care to all the poor kids here who have no medical care. Make sure that an American citizen here can get a transplant and medication so they don't reject their organ, don't go do that outside our country for someone who won't even be contributing to our society or our economy in the future. Sheesh.
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
9 Dec 12
LOL! First of all, 'undocumented workers' are supposed to be denied employment or fired and deported. I know some people would think I'm hateful for saying that, but if you want to live in this country and work here, why not come here LEGALLY so you are NOT an undocumented worker so you are able to actually get a job legally, get a place to live legally, drive legally, etc etc? I believe that illegal aliens should not only be deported as soon as discovered, it should be very hard if not impossible for any of them to be able to get a job, get a license, drive a car, or rent, buy, or otherwise live here period without proving they are attempting to gain citizenship LEGALLY - and then they need to do so within a certain timeframe or deported. As far as medical care - no, I do not believe undocumented workers or illegal aliens or whatever term you use should be allowed to qualify for any federal or state aid or healthcare. If you are an illegal, you pay out of your own pocket for your care or you leave. WHY should AMERICAN CITIZEN TAXPAYERS pay for your medical care, hospital bills, etc, in any way, shape or form? You are not an American citizen and you have not even attempted to BECOME one. YOU are not OUR problem. Taxpayer money, government funds of any kind, grants, or money from programs which are resources that should go to help our citizens are not to be used for people who are not supposed to be here, whether or not they are sick or having health problems. This is why we have no money to give insurance breaks to families who have children covered on state medicaid - the parents have no medical coverage even if the children do - and they are AMERICAN CITIZENS who perhaps aren't below the poverty level yet their employer doesn't offer ins to them or they cannot afford the employee sponsored plan. This makes me sick. Entitlements - I think - should only be available to actual citizens, AND if you did not pay into them, then they are not yours. Charity can be given to anybody I suppose, but you would think it would be better to give it to people who will make something of their lives and pass it on to others, not people who may eventually take whatever they can get here and leave again, thus not putting anything back into our economy and our society.
1 person likes this
• Tucson, Arizona
9 Dec 12
--my views are more...extreme...than yours, my friend--but then again, my other half and my grown sons are still down in lovely Arizona--where the illegals work for a few weeks, then stand next to a dirt road, wait for DHS to come along, get on the air conditioned bus, go to the barracks in Tucson, have a hot shower and a good meal, get bussed down to the border the next morning--then come right back over and do it again. Seriously. THEY DO. The DHS agents down in Arivaca see it all the time. THEY KNOW A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE BY NAME. About my views--I will only publicly state--I believe the Constitution should only apply to people here legally. There were a few things wrong with the Alien and Sedition Acts Adams wrote back in the day--but a lot more was right with them. As to entitlements--they now comprise 40% of the budget. in 2011, that represented 24% of our gross domestic product-- 24% of the ENTIRE OUTPUT OF OUR COUNTRY. By the way, 1.3 TRILLION dollars of the money used to pay those "entitlements" in 2011 was BORROWED--interest on our national debt--interest alone--takes 6% of GDP. In other words, 1.3 dollars of those entitlements WASN'T paid for by "us"--yet. The government should only be paying out what we pay in--anything in excess is a form of "charity". So at the moment, 30% of every single thing we produce goes to service these entitlements--that are growing exponentially. If the government were a "business"--if America were a "corporation"--we would be in deep dookie. Which, by the way, we are.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
10 Dec 12
I don't have any issues with 'entitlements' going to citizens - as long as they are citizens who have worked and thus paid into those programs. Another problem I have with welfare and other 'hand out programs' are generational recipients, and there are people who claim those don't exist. Yes they do! I have even met people who brag that their grandparents were on welfare and food stamps and other things and their parents were too, and now so are they. These people did not work, they managed to get on government aid because they had children when they were TWELVE, dropped out of school, etc etc. I don't know how or why anybody thinks this is acceptable or anything to be proud of, but it's why I think in order to qualify for any government program of aid, benefit, or help, several things must be proven. First, that you have at some point in your life been a working, independent member of society, that you have a job history and you have paid over a certain amount into these programs via deductions for Medicare, Social Security, unemployment, etc. This means you should have a job history of at least a few years, even if it wasn't successive. I do not believe ANYBODY, citizen or not should EVER qualify for government entitlements or benefits if they NEVER worked. I don't care if you're 12 and you have a kid, that doesn't mean you should get medicaid, food stamps, cash aid, and other welfare because you are unemployed, 12 years old, and pregnant. Also, if you are the CHILD of a family who has received government aid, you should not necessarily be eligible to receive government aid yourself. See the first sentence here - this is where the slippery slope of 'generational welfare' starts. These programs are not here to PREVENT people from having financial problems or to pay all their bills for them when they lose a job, quit, or get fired. These programs should be short term HELP to get people back on their feet, but it should not be used to LIVE on. I have more to say about this but a lot of it is rather negative and frustrates me. I see good people who have a good job history and are trying get denied food stamps because they make
• Tucson, Arizona
10 Dec 12
It does happen, every day--and a whole lot where you are. Not so much up here, though we do have illegals here--just a very small minority. I agree that programs like cash assistance and food stamps should be a temporary thing, until people get back on their feet--when I was a kid, my dad said people had to pick up their "relief" at the unemployment office--and if there was a job, and they didn't take it, they didn't get their check. I can't get insurance--neither can my younger son, who needs it. I also can't get disability, even though I paid in, for several decades. I didn't WANT disability--but I did want medicare (which for some odd reason I can't get either, until I retire at 65). Go figure. I researched renouncing citizenship and moving to Canada, for an article I was hired to write--and I found out how much money it would COST to leave. And most of the rest of the first world has much stricter standards for immigration than we do, and stiffer penalties for illegals--probably why they don't have our problem.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
12 Dec 12
The pursiuit of happiness almost was worded; the right to property - by our founders. The pursuit of happiness means we have the right to engage in work, investments, and business to PAY for our way in life, not to have 'things' or 'entitlements' handed to us from the pockets of others. Chairty is voluntary, and if tax payers are FORCED to pay for the 'charity' it is not 'charity', it is theft. I am as compassionate as the next guy, but I can see a lot of unfairness in our government enforced 'charity' programs. I hear and read a lot from liberals who want to use the guilt trip method to make enforced charity sound good....not buying it. When those who cannot pay get handouts that enable them to live better than those who can pay...there is no fairness OR charity in it.
• Tucson, Arizona
13 Dec 12
Some disaster prep "expert" here lately, wrote an article about how prepping is "socially selfish", would you believe. If it had been worded the "right to property, the government would probably be spending our money giving away houses and cars to the homeless and poverty stricken--the way they do cell phones. Our government enforced "charity" programs are bad for both the recipients AND the taxpayers, in my opinion-- the recipients are encouraged to under-perform, and the taxpayers are punished for performing well. People who try to guilt trip me usually don't get very far.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
17 Dec 12
Socially selfish? LOL! I would love to find that discussion. I actually laugh at people who disaster prep to the point of stocking a whole garage full, as these are the types of people who will have their home flooded or entirely blown to bits by a hurricane or tsunami and then all that stuff will be no good. I do think it's a good idea to always have extra staple items around and to be ready in case something occurs but to build a bomb shelter and to sock away 1500 cans of food? No, I think there is something mentally wrong with someone who is that paranoid. I don't mind if they are, but I won't hesitate to make fun of them, just as I make fun of the 'world is ending' people.