Is reincarnation true? What bible says?

What you say would seem to make sense except it perhaps promotes the idea that by our own effort... all the best, Urban

Sorry to give that impression, if I did (which part of what I have written seems to give that impression the strongest?). We have our small free will, which is very much respected in heaven, but we are completely dependent upon the mercy, grace & love of God. I hope that helps? I'm sure I've missed something out somewhere...

Yes Urban, in many cases, but our free will is such that we may not wish to be so close to God so soon & also we have not developed ourselves to "stand in his presence", so to speak, as a citizen may stand in the presence of a King, for example. There is also the grace of God to consider which also makes a difference. Far be it from God to force us to do what we do not want. But we will all get back there eventually, as it's part of a long process. To those who reside with him in bliss, it is often only for just a short while & as much as our merit permits (so we should, as Jesus reminds us, store up our treasure in heaven). In such pleasure, we take God for granted & have no desire nor motivation to experience God in all his fullness. Where there is no suffering, how can we understand or appreciate bliss? This earthly life is one of the greatest opportunities that billions of beings await the chance to be born here. The rate of learning & developing ourselves in love & every manner of God-like quality is so much more accelerated here than elsewhere. There is also a massive loving energy which draws them here that just cannot be experienced elsewhere - in other higher, more developed worlds, of which there are many, for example. It is not that God repels us down here... we really, really want to come here - every one of us. We know there will be suffering, but feel that it pales in significance to the wonderful opportunities awaiting us to develop & grow & store up our treasure in heaven. Otherwise, if God were just to pull us all up into heaven, it would be a place full of blunt, stupid, lazy, pathetic angels in no time & no-one would enjoy it there at all! Does this make any sense, or have I missed something?

I was hoping you would start this discussion having mentioned it elsewhere. When you mentioned those passages before I read them in context but I cannot see what you are getting at ...Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? ...Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. ... But whom say ye that I am? ...Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. ... Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Forgive my abbreviation of the verses, I am trying to see a reason why you would not interpret this to mean that Jesus is inquiring to see who recognises him as the Christ? And that when Peter does he confirms it is by faith? all the best, urban

Sorry Urban, I think we're talking past each other on this one. I'm also having great difficulty in seeing how the text you quoted in your reply to this topic relates to reincarnation at all, as I touched on in a previous discussion, but maybe now it is fitting to discuss these things in more detail in this discussion? I'm very reluctant to start religious discussions, or indeed to post in this category often as it divides the very few active friends I have here & seems to attract a lot of ignorants. Many others have also left MyLot for good, it seems, and fewer & fewer have time for it. Furthermore, I don't feel the need to start such discussions as I have my own experiences (as well as my studies & investigations into these matters) on these issues & these are in conflict with the majority here as well as the powerful institutions that be. I also feel these discussions are better started by your good self & I'd hate to steal your thunder! More later...

Ah! I see the problem now. I think I left a number out in the references given. I'll write them out in full: Mark: “And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am? “And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets. “And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. “And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. “And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. “And he spak that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. “But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.” Luke: “And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him; and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am? “They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again. “He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. “And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing. “Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.” Matthew: “When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? “And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. “He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God. “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. “And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [Here about the Keys, and “binding and loosing”]. “Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. “From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. “Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. “But he turned and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me. Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” I know it doesn't answer your question, but I'll get to that in a moment...

Perhaps you could explain how this relates to reincarnation? I have tried, since the first time you mentioned it, to understand how such a text rules out the possibility of reincarnation. As I see it, reincarnation could reasonably occur after the judgement & after any suffering or maybe as a result of both?

Well, I guess I interpreted 'once to die, to mean to die once all the best, urban

That's quite understandable. I'll have to look into this further.