Is a Holiday Really Offensive?
By matersfish
@matersfish (6306)
United States
December 12, 2012 11:38pm CST
I was watching Restaurant Impossible the other night, a great show where Chef Robert Irvine goes into rundown locations to revamp them. On this particular episode, called "Holiday Impossible," Chef Irvine, along with some help, transformed a Boys and Girls Club location into a beautiful place after a tornado threw a monkey wrench in the program.
Near the end of the show, Irvine was standing there speaking to the kids. The kids were younger and older, male and female, white, black and brown. It's a pretty inclusive club. But with all the respect Irvine showed to these children, he said something that, to some people, is truly unforgivable.
Chef Irvine referred to it as a "holiday." He didn't call it Christmas. And, come on, we all know that it's Christmas. Christmas is what we all celebrate. It's what I celebrate. It's the religious holiday the American government has chosen. So we all must call it Christmas!
When he called it a holiday to those children, I had two initial thoughts. One: Oh, crap! I bet you there are thousands of Christians up in arms about this right now! Two: What a beautiful, nice way to include everyone in the celebration instead of potentially making some kids feel left out if they celebrate Kwanza or Chanukah or another holiday at home! Just saying "holiday" touches everyone equally. (Damn communists!)
I grew up celebrating Christmas, and I'm not religious. I don't mind it. I call it Christmas. I call my tree a Christmas tree. So what? Doesn't bother me personally. And if someone calls it just a holiday, I don't flip out and make a movie about the "last ounce of courage" and say that there's some big war on Christmas and that the atheists are taking control of a Christian nation.
Is it really offending anyone to call it a holiday? I don't see how folks get bent out of shape on either side. It seems to me that calling it a holiday is an all-inclusive way to celebrate EVERYONE'S tradition, but a lot of Christians feel like calling it a holiday is a code word for every holiday EXCEPT Christmas.
Why does it need to be Christmas in your opinion? And if you're of the mind that it must be called Christmas for you, why does it need to be called Christmas by the entire nation? Why is it a "war" if some people don't want it called Christmas?
Over the past few years, I've gotten really annoyed with this and have evolved on this issue. I didn't care much before and actually thought it was a stupid, pointless thing to try to call it a holiday. But a lot of different images, like that mixed bag of kids sitting there, have really changed my mind. The idea that it MUST be Christmas or else it's anti-Christmas is seeming more and more like petty whining to me by people who desperately want their religion to be the nation's religion.
Or is there another reason?
4 people like this
15 responses
@scorpiobabes (7225)
• United States
14 Dec 12
Everyone is so damned worried about what is right any more-we're too politically correct that I want to throw up!
The United States was founded on a number of beliefs, one of which was religious freedom. And as such, every American is free to celebrate a religion or not. I was raised Catholic, so I celebrate Christmas. I also have friends from other faiths, and have never asked them to celebrate ONLY Christmas, just as they have never asked me to celebrate only THEIR faith.
If one truly wants to be all-inclusive, we're celebrating the holiday season. There are a number of holidays during the final six weeks of each calendar year. American holidays, like Thanksgiving, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Christian holidays, like Christmas. Jewish holidays, like Hannukah. There's a holiday celebrated by African-Americans-Kwanzaa. But it's more about the overall feelings shared during this time-it's meant to be a time of sharing and giving.
2 people like this
@scorpiobabes (7225)
• United States
15 Dec 12
I knew that the majority of Americans DO recognize themselves as some sort of Christian-as of 2008, over 173,000,000 Americans considered themselves Christian. The rest of the breakdown is as follows: non-Christian faiths comprise of nearly 8.8 million; just over 34.1 million people did not specify a religion; and approximately 11.8 million refused to answer the question.
I think because the majority of Americans asked happen to be some form of Christianity, that would explain why it appears to be the 'official' faith celebrated. I beg to differ-I think that people of other faiths sometimes adopt Christmas traditions that have no religious following (ie, Santa Claus, having a tree, etc.). I knew a Jewish family AND a Hindu family that both celebrated their own faith's traditions, but still partook of an American Christmas.
I remember when I started school, we did not have Jewish holidays off. It took a couple of local families to push for it, and as a result, they just pushed around some other dates (Christopher Columbus was no longer a school holiday, but we did receive a Jewish holiday off). Kwanzaa is much more recent, plus it falls during the week between Christmas and New Year's, so most kids are off. I don't know that it's a religious holiday per se though, and that may be the reason why.
I tend to just say Happy Holidays because I came from a religiously diverse town (we had 18 places of worship in our small town, plus a lot of transfers from other places). Then the only ones who would get upset are the aetheists.
Happy holidays!
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
14 Dec 12
I do agree that political correctness has gone to extremes, but just the images of those kids sitting there and the thought of one of them feeling left out due to Christmas or Kwanzaa or whatever -- it made me realize that sometimes it's okay to be PC and you don't have to sacrifice anything to include everyone.
As for the freedom of religion, that's right. But a lot of people argue that the USA only celebrates ONE religion officially: Christianity. That doesn't give the appearance of neutrality. That gives the appearance of "Oh, we're Christians, by the way, but you can be something else if you want."
Kwanzaa and Chanukah aren't government-endorsed federal holidays.
But I agree that this time of year is about sharing and caring and family and togetherness, no matter what you celebrate.
Thanks for the response.
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
13 Dec 12
It doesn't bother me when this time of year is referred to generally as the holidays because, as you said, there are a few celebrations that coincide with the timing. Happy Holidays is a good greeting when you're not sure which celebration a person takes part in. That part doesn't bother me.
What bothers me is when people won't call a Christmas tree what it is or when they take others to court to remove a nativity scene. There was a big stink at Grand Canyon years ago when I lived in that state--atheists took their battle to court and got the angel removed from one part of the trail. The Buddha was allowed to stay there. Tell me that isn't discrimination. Atheists also fought against church bells in Phoenix and managed to get them silenced but the mosques were not included and their call to worship (which really is beautiful) can be heard several times a day. This is why Christians feel that they are being persecuted.
Back to the holidays--I don't care what they call it as long as they don't restrict my celebration of it and don't belittle it. Like the governor of RI refusing to call it a Christmas tree when it obviously is and people protesting a church having a nativity scene. That's what bothers me, no so much the generalized holiday greeting.
1 person likes this
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
I agree that they should be going after all religions equally if they want to go after them. The most militant atheists seem to be leftist shills, only going after what's acceptable on their side of the fence.
As it stands on Christmas in particular, that one is a bit different, though, as it's a government-endorsed religious holiday. America isn't supposed to do that. So I believe that they have a legitimate beef on that front. Although I'm not much bothered by "Christmas"; I'll continue to celebrate it how I choose.
The tone some people take, however, is like atheists are literally knocking at the door and are about to take "Christmas" away from everyone. It's ALL I can find on Fox anymore! Last night, O'Reilly made it a point to shout "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" at Barbara Walters when she said "Happy Holidays."
For Pete's sake. Simmer down, Fox! And a big LMAO @ Fox for literally labeling people an "Atheist" if they're atheists down there on their little bar. Not author? Not actor? Not doctor? Just "Atheist."
I see the a$$holes out there. They get no love from me. But I think it hardly constitutes a "war" like it's being labeled so often.
Thanks for the response.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
Christmas is, by its name, a Christian holiday. It's a holiday that celebrates the birth of one particular deity in one particular religion (or religious philosophy, if one chooses to go the O'Reilly route).
I don't know why I would need "several" examples of this. I don't understand that request.
The United States of America celebrates "Christmas" as a nation. It is decreed as such, as if it came down from on high. Christmas became a federal holiday. And as far as I'm aware, other religions do not have their own holidays that are endorsed by the federal government.
We celebrate soldiers, independence, civil rights, historical events -- and one religious holiday to honor one specific deity whose existence, unlike Washington, King, pilgrims, soldiers, etc, is not only iffy at best, but really nothing at all to do with America. Unless you're Mormon, I suppose.
I don't begrudge Christmas. As I've said, I celebrate it. But a lot of atheists--and probably a lot of non-Christians--aren't thrilled at the idea that the United States of America declares itself Christian.
@StLouisMetroTutoring (678)
• St. Peters, Missouri
13 Dec 12
Matersfish - would you give several specific examples of what you mean by a government-endorsed religious holiday? Like, specifically, what does the government, or someone else do, that would make it government-endorsed?
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
13 Dec 12
They are trying to eliminate Christ and one of the ways is to take Christ out of Christmas and call it a holiday, that can be done anytime of the year. I have noticed that no one complains about the Jewish Hannakah or the other religious holidays that occur even the made up ones.
So it is not about well, we can call it a holiday because that will include everybody, because one can say, "Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays" or Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year," and it is the time when one can give presents just as the Wise Men gave presents for the Christ Child and we do not know the date when that happened either.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
13 Dec 12
I think it is the atheists on the far left side and the secular people who want Christ removed from Christmas, but they would not remove Chanukah or Kwanzas, because the later would make people think they are racists, and no one would be upset if they made a Muslim holiday. They do celebrate Chanukah a little before Christmas, but what upsets me is that one person can complain that they should call Dec. 25 a holiday instead of Christmas and not refer to the period as the Christmas holidays, but if someone complained about another non-Christian holiday, they would have to send in thousands of complaints.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
Well, that's certainly a view that I hear many Christians take -- that people are trying to remove religion in general. I'm not sure I agree with that in a broad sense as it pertains to atheists and other non-Christians who don't want "Christmas" to be American.
I suppose if the federal government made Chanukah or Kwanzaa a federal holiday, people would be upset. I'm willing to be that the majority of the people upset by the government naming a Jewish-specific holiday as a federal American holiday would be Christians.
But I'll still hand out my presents and open my presents. And I'll still believe that it's better to receive than to give!
Thanks for the response.
1 person likes this
@lsjapdoit (651)
• Indonesia
14 Dec 12
Whatever people do, they can never remove Christ from Christmas :)
1 person likes this
@bunnybon7 (50973)
• Holiday, Florida
13 Dec 12
because it is OUR nation and OUR countries holiday. in Christ's name. If we went to some other country and told them we are offended with their holiday celebration and want it called something else or even told them we are offended if they dont just call it a holiday instead of whom or what they celebrate, do you think they would comply and say oh ok, we will be ashamed of that for you and change it.? i gaurantee they would run us out on a rail, if they let us live. yet we worry over every little complaint others here give us and comply. im not ashamed and neither are many others for the name we celebrate for. sorry for the rant. its bad enough that most kids think its just sANTA s day most people dont even bother to explain to them why they really get presents. its likely why most kids today think they should be priviledged for being here.
@bunnybon7 (50973)
• Holiday, Florida
13 Dec 12
NO i dont expect the whole country here in northern america to celebrate Christs birth. i do expect for everyone to either celebrate his birth at this time or just shut up and not celebrate! do what they want but dont fuss at us for celebrating. 30 yrs ago it wasnt a problem. they either celebrated (and most did) or they didnt. are we turning into Rome? where we werent allowed to worship as christians? i dont celebrate cinco de mayo, yet i dont gripe at the mexicans for doing so and insist they call it something else why doesnt anyone do that? i dont feel threatened nor anything. im happy for them and say yes happy cinco de mayo to you to but i dont say hey, dont call it that. im offended because i dont even believe in it so you should not either. make my point? i dont celebrate Hannaka, (spelling?) yet i told my daughter in law, yes happy hannika dear.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
That's just my point. Who is this "our"? Christians? Americans? America is Christian?
I'm not worried about other countries and what they do. I'm more worried about people going into fits in this nation over something so petty.
You have one guy in the nation who wants to call a Christmas tree a holiday tree in order to cater to everyone, and Fox News runs a month-long special about how the secular progressives are going to start taking "Christmas" away from everyone.
So you feel that the entire country should celebrate the birth of the god you believe in, and that it's a shame more kids don't realize the reason for the holiday?
Fine by me. But then I can definitely see why some people don't want that to be the public face of the nation either.
Thanks for the response.
@StLouisMetroTutoring (678)
• St. Peters, Missouri
13 Dec 12
Yes, you're right. It's OUR country. Not the Christian's country. Our country is becoming less Christian all the time. Some statistics for the United States:
1990 86% Christian 8.2% No religion
2012 75% Christian 20% No religion
While the Christians remain dominant, that is obviously dropping and more people are rejecting all organized religions.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
This is the day they chose long ago to create a celebration in the name of Jesus' birthday, which I suppose isn't his birthday (and which I suppose he can't have a birthday anyway, but that's another topic). My point was that it shouldn't matter what it's called. A person can still celebrate Christmas without the entirety of humanity having to play along.
Thanks for the response.
1 person likes this
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
I don't disagree with that, Cetz. I'm not religious, yet I celebrate Christmas -- to the point that I'll call it CHRISTMAS out of spite if someone tells me that I shouldn't be celebrating it unless I celebrate it how they want me to! lol
But if someone doesn't want to call it Christmas, I don't have a problem with that either.
So I can agree with you wholeheartedly on the "have fun" point. We all should.
1 person likes this
@mariaperalta (19073)
• Mexico
13 Dec 12
everyone has their own thoughts and ways to celbrate the xmas holiday.. I know many countries have thier own ways. I just like to be with friends and family on xmas eve and xmas day. merry xmas to you there.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
That's really all I worry about in the end. The bickering back and forth gets under my skin.
Thanks for the response.
1 person likes this
@mariaperalta (19073)
• Mexico
13 Dec 12
very true.. usually the bickering is all between family members here.
@GardenGerty (160619)
• United States
13 Dec 12
Our school district, the last I checked, calls the break the Winter Holiday break, and I am right in the middle of the conservative Christian Bible belt. It is okay with me, but they still call the Spring Holiday Easter. I fully understand the inclusiveness of calling it a holiday in the context the chef was in. I get more upset about the people who are offended by Native American references in school names and accessories. I am Native American in part, and it does not offend me. I am diverging, though. Sorry. I guess if we want to be offended we can find ways to be offended about anything. If we are busy being offended we are denying the message of "Peace on Earth".
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
Nah, that's actually a very valid point to bring up -- what people are offended by and what they're seemingly not offended by.
I admit that the non-Christmas crowd takes things WAY too far. So it's called Christmas, as they want it called something more inclusive. That bit is understandable. But the "there is no god" signs up beside manger scenes and generally flipping out is just ridiculous and intentionally meant to demean people.
I don't believe Christmas should be "offensive" to anyone, just like a model wearing a take on a traditional Native headdress shouldn't be deemed offensive.
People need to lighten up in our culture for sure.
A lot of people offended by Christmas should take a step back and realize that it's nothing to be offended over. And the Christians who are offended that someone would want to call it just a "holiday" should also step back and realize that people not wanting to fall under their religion's banner aren't necessarily trying to remove religion.
I agree with public schools calling it a "holiday." I don't think they should be taking sides. Although it is still odd if they call it Easter for spring break. There should be some consistency on principle; it seems like they're kowtowing to pressure, either real or perceived.
Thanks for the response.
1 person likes this
@lsjapdoit (651)
• Indonesia
14 Dec 12
That is true GardenGerty. We can always find ways to be offended about anything if we want to be offended. We will then be filled with anger and hatred inside. We can, however, choose to be tolerant and understanding. We will feel peace and warmth inside with this option :)
@Celanith (2327)
• United States
13 Dec 12
First of our our US government had no right at all to make "Christmas a religious national holiday because it violates the first amendment of freedom of religion in that the government is not to make any one religious belief over and above another. There are a lot of people who do not observe Christmas in this nation. And yes many are indeed Christian and know it is not the birthday of Christ and that it does not honor Christ and is a day God hates and said not to learn these customs and ways.
The chef was correct in calling it a holiday in that he did not know who among the children might not keep Christmas, perhaps Muslim, Jewish, Jehovah Witness or any number of Sabbatarian faiths that do not keep it, or Amish or Mennonite or other faiths not to mention Atheists and agnostic.
It is an issue in that people who choose to observe it insist everyone else should be happy to hear about it, or forced to take off work when they cannot afford to so those who choose to keep it can have their holiday. Their celebration for their religous belief. That is why it is wrong.
As for who made it a holiday it was not God, or Christ or any of the apostiles but the Roman Catholic Church that took an extremely pagan custom and blended it with Christianity to appease Roman temple priests who complained new converts were no longer bringing gifts to them for the Saturnalia to appease the sun god, not son of God. So the light would return.
Plus there are other Winter holidays other's celebrate Hanakkah, Kwanda, Ramadan, Winter Fest among a few so to call it Christmas to make those who keep that day would be an insult to those who do not observe that particular religious holiday. Calling it a Holiday is generic enough to encompass them all and not offend. I too am sick and tired of people insisiting all of who do not celebrate this highly commercialized pagan custom that invokes selfishness, greed, commercialism and a false God with flying reindeer that actually USURPS Christ as he the fat man in the red suit and his reindeer get more credit for things than Christ does.
Christ is not the real reason at all why people celebrate Christmas and those who huff and puff and claim it is are lying to themselves and to other people as well, they do it for fun, because they like gifts or giving them, for the lights, the pretty things in a dark time of the year and it is something to do. Yes it is offending for some.
Christmas should not even be a federal holiday at all, let those who celebrate it take it off without penalty but let those who want to work do so. Schools and Employers balk when people of other faiths ask for their holiday time off but boy tell them they can't take off Christmas they would get totally bent But our nation's law makers did make Christmas a Federal holiday and the should not have.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".
Making it a Federal holiday gives more respect to this than to Hanakkah, Kwaanza or other holidays of other religious beliefs and people and thus every faith should have their holiday declared a federal holiday if the First Amendment were actally enforced. Which apparently it isn't in this circumstance. Which is why there have been protests and complaints. While there is more tolerance than there used to be there is still a lot of controversy and hatred and bigotry on all sides. So yes your are right about this and though I don't celebrate any of these days I know other's do and the true wish is "Merry Mithras" Because that is the true being or god Christmas is all about that and Santa Claus. Jesus is not the reason for the season for most not at all.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
And if it weren't for Santa and commercialization, it might have evaporated in the mainstream.
Thanks for the response.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
13 Dec 12
I'm personally a fan of calling it Holiday rather then Christmas. Every group has their own take on the time, and everyone has their own directions on it. How would a Jewish kid, or a Muslim kid, or an Atheist kid, feel if he was saying, "Happy times only to the people who are the same religion as me!"
And Christmas isn't only a remake of all the standard holidays that it took over from, but it's singular to just Christians... I mean, it even named after Christ, and it has images of christian angels and Jesus, and so many songs talk about just the birth of Jesus, and talk about how the Christian God is the best God.
I'm an atheist (if you hadn't guessed already!), and I'm not so big on the free publicity that Christianity gets through this season. There are many pieces about Christianity that I'm quite opposed to, so I find it offensive when it gets shown off through the public, along with giving gifts to children, pushing their young minds towards that specific religion. It's even worse with children from other religions, showing them that they're less then equal to the christians.
Of course, if someone wants to say Merry Christmas to me, or if they want to be putting up christian decorations, I'm not going to fight against it, I'm not going to picket their house telling them to take it down, I wouldn't want to oppose such a thing on what they want to do. But, if they are respectful of others that are not quite like themselves, I really respect that.
So, I like the sound of Happy Holidays, much better.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
For me, I don't mind so much that it's called Christmas. I just get more and more annoyed when someone wants to call it a holiday and some Christians go into hysterics, claiming there's a "war" on them and that they're being persecuted and that unless everyone in America worships their Christian holiday, it means people want to take it away from them.
It's getting worse every year. News goes wild with this story, bringing on Catholic priests to tell us all how it should be "Christmas" for the good of the nation, and painting all atheists like the devil, and using one or two examples of someone calling it a simple holiday as an excuse to act as if Gestapo are coming into homes and replacing Christmas trees with a metal sculpture of a huge A.
The incessant need to make a private matter public is irritating me more and more every day.
I don't want to change the name. I'm fine with it being called Christmas. But for people who do want to call it a holiday, I'm pissed that they're treated like the scum of the earth for not wanting to celebrate it.
Thanks for the response.
@lsjapdoit (651)
• Indonesia
14 Dec 12
It's just natural for people to have different views over things. Differences make life colorful and interesting. Differences should not be made into reasons to disrespect, abuse or hurt others. We can be different and still live together peacefully by respecting each other.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
14 Dec 12
And happy holidays to you, too, Bird!
Thanks for the response.
@Aquitaine24 (11813)
• San Jose, California
14 Dec 12
Well,holiday means "holy day",so it could be construed as the same thing.or it could mean Hannukah rorDiwali.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
15 Dec 12
That's my point. It can be anyone's "holy" day. And "holy" can mean what you want it to. But "Christmas" is incredibly specific.
I don't have any beef whatsoever with Christmas. I celebrate it. But it's not very inclusive. If Christians are right, I'm still going to suffer for eternity, even though I celebrate it lol
Thanks for the response.
@StLouisMetroTutoring (678)
• St. Peters, Missouri
13 Dec 12
I too grew up with Christmas. I'm religious. For those reasons, I personally prefer to call my celebration Christmas and always will. To me, Christmas refers to the celebration for that one holiday. I really don't want to learn new songs! Could you imagine "Oh Holiday! Oh Holiday!" or "I'm Dreaming of a White Holiday"?
All kidding aside, I don't want to lose the designation of Christmas for that holiday. I would really hate for the term Christmas to disappear. But that's me personally. I often use the word holiday to refer to the season in general, such as "Happy Holidays!" There are many holidays during this season. I usually consider the season to start around Thanksgiving and go through New Year's Day. If I'm in a generous mood, I sometimes even include Halloween. I don't think that referring to this time of year as "holiday" should be considered negatively by Christians. We are told to love all our neighbors. It seems to me that includes respecting the traditions of others.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Dec 12
I can understand your sentiment. But just say the "worst" happened, and America officially changed the name to "Winter Holiday" and no taxpayer-funded public grounds were allowed to display manger scenes or call it Christmas. Would that be taking Christmas away from you personally?
I personally don't see the harm in having some people in public call it just a holiday. It's not like people are going into homes to take it away, nor is it going to be removed as a federal holiday.
So I don't think it's ever going to lose its designation.
Thanks for the response.
@lsjapdoit (651)
• Indonesia
14 Dec 12
When people hear holiday, they might ask what holiday that is. When people hear Christmas, they are clear without having to ask further. People should not make it become Christmas and anti-Christmas thing.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
15 Dec 12
Well, I know some people are specifically attacking Christianity and want Christ removed. But a lot of people who want it called "holidays" are just making the point that it should include everyone. Christianity doesn't include everyone. If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is your personal lord and savior, you supposedly burn in hell!
So a lot of people aren't anti-Christmas. They're not saying "Let's change the name to it's-not-Christmas!" They just want to include everyone.
Thanks for the response.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
25 Feb 13
Thank G-d I went to a school where it wasn't the Christmas break but the winter break.As a child Christmas was more about Santa Claus than Jesus. I became a Jew at age 17. And ever since I do not assume Everyone I meet is Christian. I say Happy Holidays.That way if they Are Jewish Or an Atheist , we all get Dec 25th off!A day off work or school Is a Holiday. i can't understand why they are upset about the word holiday. But.. I do understand why many do not like seei9ng X-mas! It is like someone replaced Christ with an X! Ouch!