Satan in Heaven????

Perhaps her good deeds was something she learned watching you. You might be surprised how our actions do touch others. WE can lead others to God by what we do such as : our acts of love and kindness, our acts of forgiving especially when others won't, our acts of standing up what what is right in the midst of great opposition, and our acts of showing others that hate is not really a viable choice for any reason. Yes, there are so many ways we are touching others. As for trials, tribulations and our choices,this is the way to true wisdom. When our actions return to teach we learn. At some point, one accumulates all the wisdom, all the answers, how could this ever be accomplished if we are sheltered?? It couldn't. Know that God understands this path and loves all his children Unconditionally as they go through the growing pains that learning often take. It's a bit like kids going to school. Kids hate going to school but when it's all said and done, they are grateful for having acquired the knowledge. Happy Holidays, Vandy

bird ...I am reminded of Our Father prayer, and the part that I like of it... Give us this day our daily bread..(I am a foodie), And forive us our trespasses Do not bring us to the test, but deliver us from evil.. Amen.. Well..at least I got to order god instead of telling him please or something..lol Happy Holidays to you too bird. Always a pleasure interacting with you. :)

You are right. There is no need to hate in this case. On the other hand, there are many lessons needed. One should never forget lessons at the point they are most needed. Can you see or do you choose to hate? Some do choose some very hard lessons for themselves. Intelligence can prevent so much. We must all strive to acquire intelligence.

The one who is forgiving is the one who was wronged, but is willing to dismiss the wrong because they want to restore the relationship. The one who rejects forgiveness is hurting no one but him/herself. Do you honestly believe that intelligence stops hurts? Because God dearly loves us, of course there are things we do that hurt Him because He knows that we are hurting ourselves when we do things that are against His will. I particularly think He's hurt when we don't trust Him because we're missing out on His blessings as a result of that mistrust. For instance, how many people do you know who are suffering from sickness because they don't trust God when He tells us, "by His (Jesus') stripes we are healed"? You really don't understand God at all. It's not about what we do, like learning it all, but about what God has done for us. No matter how hard you work for your salvation, it will never be enough to erase the wrong you've done. Our hope is in Jesus Christ. You really need to get over this blame obsession you have. I'll tell you one more time: Yes, we are tempted, but since God has made a way of escape from temptations, we have no excuse when we yield to temptation. So you see, Satan is not being blamed for anything more than tempting us. Stubbing your toe has nothing to do with being tempted to sin. That's either an accident or carelessness. Temptation is when you know what you ought to do but there's another voice telling you to do what you know you ought not do. For instance, let's say you've done something wrong and instead of confessing you listen to that voice that tells you to lie about it. That voice that's telling you to lie is an evil spirit that's tempting you. Do you understand? I have no idea what those who produced the link are looking for. Thanks for looking at the link. Did you learn anything? Where did you get the idea that God's forgiveness is not necessary or that I agree with you? The only way you'll spend eternity with God is if you accept His gift of forgiveness. If you don't, you're forever lost in your sins. Right now God's goodness is still in the world, but a time is coming when our life here will be over and then it's either heaven or hell depending on the decisions we make here and now. You haven't been paying attention to what I've told you. If you'll refer to paragraph three above, you'll see that I have forgiveness. Since I have forgiveness I don't hurt. Actually my life is pretty joyful. Have you ever thought that you might be staying up too late writing your responses? You seem to misunderstand so much.

In this case the forgiving helps the one who is forgiving in that they stop hating. Those who we forgive means something only if the one forgiven feels guilty. That being said. Do you feel guilty? You seem to need forgiving awful badly. Why is that? Why does forgiveness have to be accepted? The person forgiving will gain just in the act of forgiving. For the person choosing evil,they do not require forgiveness for they do not truly understand their actions. Until they do understand, it's all wasted energy spent. Lessons are needed. God will provide. Yes, those donuts looked pretty tasty. Was the devil telling me to eat them? No. Somebody knows how to cook to make them look and smell good. One will eat those donuts with absolutely no guilt. When one understands that they are not healthy and after those donuts twist around in one's guts trying to digest, one learns and understands. Once one understands, no amount of tempting will make a difference. It's the same with choosing evil. There are things you would never choose to do no matter how someone tempted you. When you truly understand your actions, evil is no longer a viable choice. AS for you question about who created evil, how can you have goodness without evil. God created a full range of choices. Learn it all. That is where wisdom is formed. Satan does not exist because there is no need for Satan, not to mention God would of had Satan straightened out by now. One should not hold onto hate, blame, and anger for any reason. Even if it is projected on a fictitious character, it keeps the hate around, inside and hurting everyone around your life. You do not need all those petty things like hate, blame, and anger. Let Satan go and he will no longer exist for you too.

So you are saying the one who is doing the forgiving is the one who is hurting. Do you really think anything that you could do would hurt God? Give me a break here. God is much more intelligent that that. God can fix anything you decide to do with lessons for you. Further,every action has been accounted for ahead of time. The appropriate lesson arrives just as you request when you choose your original action. There is no need to create demons to blame when you are the one making the choice. I stubbed my toe this morning. It was that demon chair that walked in my path somehow. Can you really believe the stuff you do? There were no demons. The chair didn't move. I stubbed my toe all by myself. I chose to walk too close to that chair. I read your link. They did admit in one part that they had no answer this side of eternity. Are they even looking for answers?? You are right about one thing. God's forgiving is not necessary. Nothing of that general nature ever comes up with God. There are far better things to look into. We all have the power to choose what we deem important in this world. If you deem it's important that you are forgiven for your sins, you will hurt until you are forgiven. That is a choice you are making, not God. I don't have the problem.

Response to your first paragraph. As usual, you’re evading my question, so your claim of, “reality,” is false. You are not able to prove your statement that in "reality Satan doesn’t really exist". Since I never made any claim in this discussion about Satan being or not being, how can you ask me to prove something I didn’t say? Your second paragraph You’re speaking of him as if he’s human. For someone who claims to want to know it all, you sure are ignorant. Your third paragraph Are you saying you have to go around the block to get back to where you were? Why if you’re already there? That doesn’t sound like education. It’s more like an evil game played by a vindictive god. Where is the love you keep talking about? Your fourth paragraph So far, what you’ve said about God doesn’t add up to a loving God who cares about His children. It adds up to a god who hates all, a god who plays vindictive games to hurt. Where your god is concerned, he is the demon. That is the reality of your god. Your fifth paragraph Understanding has brought me the wisdom to know you don’t speak for God. You speak against Him and for our advocacy.

Understanding requires work rather than mere belief. I suggest you let your beliefs go then venture into undiscovered country and discover the truth for yourself. Do not rely on what others tell you. Truth waits to be discovered by those who seek it. I can point, however you must choose to seek. I do not speak against God. I only speak against that which is said about God that simply is not true. I do so not with anger or hate but just because it is important that truth be in this world. What people choose to do with truth is entirely up to them. I see so many times you choose to ignore the truth. One day your need to value the truth will overcome the need to hold onto your blind beliefs. You have all my unconditional love and kindness.

Where is your proof that Satan does exist? People are using a fictitious character as an excuse for their own choices. Blame has always been petty. Working toward results will supply better answers. Now if you do know Satan, send him my way. Clearly,if what they say about him is true, he needs someone to care enough about him to teach him the truth. Intelligence always makes the right choices even in Satan's case. Yes, bestboy, You can see more actions of God. Why did God create and allow evil in this world? Could it be one can never know goodness without knowing evil too? A well rounded education is important. Everything about God and God's system does add up completely. Look closely, there is Genius behind it all and you don't need stories of demons to understand it all. I'm sure stories can make things sound more exciting in addition to creating fear in people, however above all else one needs to seek reality and the truth. God will be that Source. Look around you at God's actions. They have never been changed by mankind. Understanding will not only bring you great wisdom but direction by which you can discover so much more. As with everything in life, each must make their own choices. Blaming others or some demon will change nothing. Your actions will return so that you might understand what your actions really mean.

Satan, truly set aside to be thrown into the lake of fire and God, made that decision ever since this world being created. If you read the bible, my friend. You find out what I mean with that purpose of God to satan...

I have read the bible. So tell me where is the justice in eternal punishment? Wouldn't a ruler that imposes eternal punishment with no chance of redemption be no more than a tyrant? Is the goal to create fear and hate in others? Isn't the real God much more intelligent than that?

Is it really Intelligent not to forgive and fix the problem? Isn't your description leaving God a bit lacking if He can do no more than destroy His problems rather than find a Real solution?

Yes, we must allow our reason part to rule over that feeling part. Simple reacting can lead one down a path one might regret later. It also helps to take time out to think things through. Perhaps when hate appears, it's just a sign more work toward goodness is needed. Since our actions define who we are, we need to decide what we really want to say to others.

Yes, you are right. Regardless of who one conjures up to blame,each is responsible for their own choices. If one really understood evil, one could never choose it. That being said, some choose evil thus choosing the lessons which will teach that evil is really not a viable choice. It can be a long painful process that many seem to have to go through. I choose always to forgive. If we hold onto hurt and hate, we only hurt ourselves. Still, when confronted by those who choose evil, we must never miss the opportunity to teach or at least point the way toward goodness. In time, they will see that is the only direction to go. We can't allow that truth to be missing from their view.

If Satan is a fallen being never to return to God, then isn't your God a failure for not having fixed the problem?? Seems so to me. I know you need someone to blame for all your troubles but how can Satan be the cause of people's bad choices? Aren't people responsible for their own choices? Pointing blame away solves nothing. It avoids the real problem which is the lack of understanding. I have found many of those bible stories do not add up. I would rather deal in reality and look for God for answers rather than from books written by mankind. Say, wasn't today supposed to be the end of the world?? I guess those Mayans were wrong after all. One can choose to blindly accept stories but then one isn't always living in the truth are they? We all are free to choose which is important, truth or stories. Lessons follow to teach us all.

I am not saying that satan is the cause fo all our troubles, as maybe we do bring them on ourselves. what I am saying is that Satan is an evil being, and the evil in the world is the fault of Satan, all of it. God didn't destroy Satqan those many years ago, as if he had, we would serve him out of fear thinking if we did anything wrong we would be next. God wants us to serve him out of love, not fear. God is the father of the universe, and he is the inspiration for the bible as it was written by man, but God told them what to say. God always has been and will be, the one I serve and seve him daily.

Satan does not exist except in stories. People will always make bad choices. They learn through the results. As for God telling people just what to write in the bible, that did not happen. If it had, the bible would be a much different write. Simply because religion tells you God told them what to write does not make it true. They want followers. What else would they say? As for serving God, all God's children are doing just that. Though some do choose evil, they will turn from evil once they come to understand it. God does not hate His children for any reason. God will teach His children great wisdom in time. Let's not forget that choosing evil has never been wise.

OK, let's look at your God for a moment. Why is your God unwilling or unable to fix His problems as with Satan?? Why must your God use Fear and Intimidation in an attempt to get His children to follow and believe?? Seems like your God is lacking in so very many ways. Ask yourself this: Shouldn't a Being capable of creating universes be able to handle His wayward children better than this? Shouldn't there be better ways than the use of those petty things mankind holds dear such as fear, intimidation and destroying rather than solving tough problems? If God insists we solve problems, why would God refuse to solve His own?? Does all this you describe really sound like God? Do all the stories really add up?? Never forget that everything about God will add up completely. Those stories written by mankind never do. One should not blindly believe. One should question and see things as they are. God's greatest moment is when that light bulb goes off over someone's head and they finally Understand!!

Are all these things that mankind tells you really God?? Why do you not even question? How can you say what they tell you adds up? God could never be that monster. You can discover God to be much more intelligent and loving than you describe. You describe God as having anger. Is this anger you describe because God can't get you to do what He wants?? If God can create universes, how hard can it be to get you to do anything He wants you to do?? You underestimate God. Your holy book creates a god that values petty things as mankind does such as blame, controlling, ruling, demanding,the use of fear, intimidation, and destroying to solve problems. Why can you not see that this is not God? You must think for yourself rather than blindly accept what others tell you. Look to a much higher level than you ever have before. You can find God if you really choose to.

What you say ? you is wrong in God Himself , who created the universe , that human who could not yet explored and learn all its secrets, Is not able to solve the problems ? God was able to eliminate the devil at the moment , but the devil asked him to keep it until the day of resurrection, and God has given him so requested, in order to be his will the Almighty , what you say about intimidating people , it is not true , He is clear to us goodness and evil , asked us to worship Him alone , This is His right , and He clear to us , the end routes through faith and obedience (Paradise) and through sin and follow Satan and self is inclined towards evil Hell) , He leave us the freedom of choice, He loves His slaves and wants them well he sends them apostles to make them remember their God , and guide them to His way after they strayed. Did you know that compassion are hundred part , He down of which one part to the Earth which humans mercy other creatures from this part ? , and He kept to himself 99 part to mercy His slaves? Almighty wrote compassion on himself [6.12] Say: "To whom belongs that which is in the heavens and the earth? 'Say:' To Allah. He has written for Himself mercy, and will gather you on the Day of Resurrection in which there is no doubt. Those who have lost their souls, they do not believe. " Said Muhammad, peace be upon him "Lord wrote on Himself the compassion that it is the work of you does evil in ignorance , then repents after that , and be religious , He is Most Merciful , Forgiver " And he said, " Wrote Lord Himself with his hand before He created creation : My Mercy preceded My Anger" Did you know that the Almighty will not let the people who enter the fire , forever ? And that will come out of it each who was in his heart atom from the faith ? There of Aged them from the fire, and will remain there , only disbelievers and have been worship another with Him, ? You have a lot to know about your Creator .. I hope that God guide you to His light .

Yes, there are a million lessons to be learned around religion and none of them about God. So often people blindly accept when people should be thinking and questioning. Of course, they say Thinking is dangerous, however we know that thinking is really crucial. Yes, you are right. We all learn and grow into understanding and since intelligence makes the right choices our morality can't help but improve.