How should Christians handle the loss of religious freedom?
By hoseasmate
@hoseasmate (720)
United States
December 23, 2012 10:00am CST
Do you think that Christians should be actively trying to prevent the loss of their freedom of speech or do you think that we need to have laws in place to prevent religious encroachment? One the one hand I don't want the Satanic groups and cults to have freedom to teach their doctrines to my child at school, but on the other hand I don't want to give up my child's right to express their religious beliefs in papers and speeches that they are required to make during their school education. I think that some form of prayer and religious teaching should be mandated in the classroom because so many kids are bullying others and don't seem to recognize some of the basic rules of society. This discussion was prompted by the lawsuit that a college student won when she filed over not receiving her diploma because she refused to acknowledge homosexuality as 'normal'. I felt that she was right because she did not try to force her belief on the other, and tried to change the individual to a different group. Shouldn't prudent people be able to come up with compromises so that each person can practice their religious beliefs or lack thereof so long as no proselyting is the motive?
2 people like this
6 responses
@cupkitties (7421)
• United States
23 Dec 12
How about just teaching some simple morals, respect, kindness, dignity...? Those may be taught to you in church ,but those are not things that only a religious person can be aware of. Why do people think that crap? There are many kind, caring people in the world who aren't Christians or even part of any religion. You can still pray in school. To yourself. No one is stopping you. There is no need to force others to join in or here you. You want others to join in? Go to church or attend a christian school.
As for the girl. as stupid as I think her opinion is, I do believe she should have received her diploma. I don't see what someones personal opinion has to do with that.
3 people like this
@hoseasmate (720)
• United States
24 Dec 12
That is the point of the discussion. The homosexual activists were successful in trying to force her to accept their point of view to the exclusion of her work to earn a diploma. Education should be neutral. All points of view should be examined and taught so that each person has a choice, knowledge, and is not alienated. I agree that those on the outer edge of religious fringe that only want their point of view taught should attend their own private institutions, of which there are many. Public monies should be spent on education that is neutral and informative without excluding any. Schools should teach basic morality. Not morality that is based on any religious tenet but on society's need for that 'goodness'. I don't know of a single 'religion' or 'non-religion' that could object to that. Perhaps there are some?
@habibti320 (925)
• United States
24 Dec 12
I think that your initial discussion might have been a little different than what you seem to be proposing.
When you say religious instruction, it is very different than saying that you want religiously-neutral morals to be taught. I would agree with that whole-heartedly! A great way to do this is through literature that teaches students to "try on" different scenarios and examine people's points of view. This is what inspired me to become an English teacher, because there my students can be exposed to so many different points of view and analyze their own.
@habibti320 (925)
• United States
23 Dec 12
I haven't heard of this case where a girl didn't receive her diploma because she didn't acknowledge homosexuality. As long as that is not one of the "tenets" of the institution she attended, she should receive her diploma. That is a matter of the university and its bylaws, not the government.
However, your other proposal would most definitely be encroaching on the religious freedom of the MAJORITY. Prayer doesn't teach morality...it just teaches a belief that an invisible supernatural being is responsible for making things happen/not happen, which impedes upon personal responsibility. ex. I didn't get the job because "it wasn't God's will", not because I didn't compete for the job.
Are you familiar with the history of religious education in America? When public schools were first started, there was a significant amount of Bible and religion taught. However, it was all a specific Protestant ideology. Catholic families were alienated within public schools (which were paid for by tax dollars) and even Protestants of different ideologies protested. People set up their own schools to teach their specific form of Christianity.
Now, this was in a society which was predominantly Christian. I just took a look at the 2010 Census information and we have significant Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. populations...but the group which outnumbers all of these groups combined is Atheists and Agnostics (which are not Satan-worshippers, btw). If you want your children to be taught the Bible at school, there are plenty of Christian schools (and colleges) they can attend. But please don't infringe on the religious rights of all of these other people, and the Christians who don't want the school to be an agent of the Church.
3 people like this
@hoseasmate (720)
• United States
24 Dec 12
Nope. I don't want the Bible taught at school and I also don't like the doctrines and tenets of humanism and socialism taught at school either. I want each person, whether Satanist, Agnostic, Hindi, Mulslim, Jewish, Christian to be able to freely express their beliefs when writing papers or giving oral reports. I don't think any religion or non-religion should be alienated. My proposal is for freedom of speech and to prevent the censorship of (predominantly Christian) speaking and writing. I did not send my children to Christian school because I wanted them exposed to ALL type religions, non-religions, and others so that they could freely choose how they wanted to live their lives and what they choose to internalize as their beliefs.
@habibti320 (925)
• United States
24 Dec 12
Well I am glad to hear that this is your belief, and this is one that I share. I remember being interested in religions and cultures from an early age and learned a lot from my Muslim and Hindu classmates in particular. There was freedom for us to talk about our beliefs and traditions at school, as long as it wasn't from a teacher or other school administrator. We even used it as material for papers comparing the traditions and worldviews of Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism.
I don't mind the Bible being taught as literature in order to better understand the development of Western society and belief systems. In this way I think that humanism and socialism belong as well. If children are to make their opinions, they should be exposed to varied trains of thought. In this way, they can learn to respect the people who hold these beliefs even if they don't agree with them.
The problem is when things are taught in a way that is biased and isolates the kids who don't agree. With all of the bullying and violence, I think that encouraging tolerance and respect is beneficial. Even if someone doesn't agree with a person's lifestyle (such as homosexuality), I think that encouraging them to practice a degree of respect for that person is beneficial in our modern society.
As I said, even if that person doesn't agree, I don't think that the institution should be allowed to withhold their degree and it seems that the law decided the same.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
23 Dec 12
Everyone should struggle against all oppression. No one should have the right to deny you your inalienable rights. I agree that no one should ever force their beliefs on others, but if they really believe that they are right they should lead by example.
Religious oppression is unexceptable...However, those who try to mask their political beliefs as religious should not be given the power to oppress the truly religious.
2 people like this
@hoseasmate (720)
• United States
24 Dec 12
I do agree. Politics and religion make very poor 'bedfellows'! The dark ages and the conquerors that rode in all their brutality in the name of some god is somewhere the peoples of the world should never want to go again. I realize that some religious beliefs still teach their followers to conquer or kill, but we as a whole should try to defeat that mentality. We need to focus on the portions of each religion that promotes the good of mankind and try to re-direct from those parts that teach others to proselyte and even kill those who don't follow their beliefs.
@macdingolinger (10386)
• United States
23 Dec 12
I have nothing against "silent prayer" in school. I think this few minutes of silence will allow each student to follow their own belief without infringing on the rights of others. It's also a very good practice for focusing for the day. This would allow everyone to pray to whomever they feel their god is without anyone else having to know.. those who have no god can meditate or think about their day. I think there is a problem with teaching morals in school because our society is becoming very amoral. this makes it difficult to determine what is moral for the masses. It makes it difficult to find a common definition of honesty, dignity, respect etc... that each could agree on.. sad really!
2 people like this
@hoseasmate (720)
• United States
24 Dec 12
Yes, quiet time is a good practice in school, at work, and places where a pause for reflection is called for. I agree that it will help those de-stress and to re-focus on whatever task is at hand. Well, perhaps someone could start that discussion on mylot to determine what morals would be appropriate to be taught in school. I vote for no cheating, no taking what doesn't belong to you, speaking only things that are kind, and that all the other classroom members are just as valuable as others.
1 person likes this
@macdingolinger (10386)
• United States
24 Dec 12
I totally agree with you and tried to teach these things in principle and by action in my classroom when I taught. The trouble I see with it now is that teachers are at a loss for these basic morals!
I know teachers who offered to pay me to write their papers for them - how are they to teach children not to cheat? Too many teachers have no respect for others - I always referred to my students as "sir" and "ma'am" as a matter of respect. It through them off at first but they eventually got it and returned the same courteous respect to me!
I know teachers who offered to pay me to write their papers for them - how are they to teach children not to cheat? Too many teachers have no respect for others - I always referred to my students as "sir" and "ma'am" as a matter of respect. It through them off at first but they eventually got it and returned the same courteous respect to me!
@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
24 Dec 12
"religious" freedom---that is literally 'choosing the chains that bind you.' In the end, you're either the ox tied to the cart full of gold or the ox tied to the cart full of manure.
Of course, the one with the MANURE is the most-useful--feeding the plants that feed the animals that make the manure that feed the plants that feed ... etc.--while the gold is heavy & lifeless & only useful as the smith can forge it to enhance its beauty (and that of the lovely ladies it adorns).
Really, you have to pull both carts. The life-processes of the manure-cart (things that religion helps you get through) happen a Lot more-smoothly if you don't think about them. That's why school, 'the world' etc. serve largely to grow your gold-cart bigger as a distraction from your life-cart. The larger a gold-cart you can pull, the easier it is to pull your life-cart---in theory.
1 person likes this
@hoseasmate (720)
• United States
24 Dec 12
Neat analogy! And that's kinda the same I use when telling my friend who is a vegetarian that my food poops on her food and therefore makes her food better! I don't think I've ever heard religion described as chains, but perhaps you have a very valid point! I have heard of some religions referred to as manure!
@Pegasus72 (1898)
•
28 Jan 13
My kids go to public school, they pray before they eat, no matter what others think, and they talk about God openly, when it comes a time they can't then there will be talks. We have always been open about our wishes. If others can not say the pledge because of their religion, then we can pray because of our religion. Religious freedom means we can practice it without any problems.
