Is there Proof your Holy Book does Not come from God????
By bird123
@bird123 (10643)
United States
December 28, 2012 10:15pm CST
So many people have told me their specific holy book comes from God and that every word is God's word. Are they really?? Let's take a few steps back and look at that.
First, we must define God for how can we know whether a holy book comes from God unless we know Who God is?? God is Unconditional Love with Great Intellect. This, I think most people can agree upon.
Anyone who can create universes Has Great Intellect. Why is God Unconditional Love? Isn't unconditional love, the intelligent way to be?? Think about that. If you give hate, doesn't hate return? Doesn't your hate make others want to strike back at you? Is it really intelligent to have all the kiddies wanting to strike back at you? I don't think so. Finally, God must stand for justice. To not stand for justice would invite those who do to attempt to overthrow your rule in favor of justice.
OK, just looking at these few criteria,does your holy book stand for these things? How can your holy book come from God if it uses fear and intimidation to gain followers?? How can your holy book come from God if it uses blame?? How can your holy book come from God if it teaches to hate others who do not believe or make bad choices in their lives?? How can your holy book come from God if it places women or any other person as second class to another?? How can your holy book come from God if it teaches eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption for what crime would justify this punishment, not believing??
God is at a Higher Level. God is above the petty things mankind holds so dear such as blame,wanting to punish, hate, greed, controlling others, putting people down and teaching everyone something is wrong with them from birth. If you find these petty things in your holy book, isn't that the Proof that it doesn't come from God??
If you do not see this or are blind to this, doesn't that just mean you do not really understand what these petty things really are?? If you truly understood, how could you ever choose them??
Though your holy book does not come from God,God is in people thus God ends up in some form in them. The teaching of unconditional love and kindness does speak from God. So when you read your holy book, filter mankind's part out. There might not be much left but you can still see God.
7 responses
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
29 Dec 12
Not only do the holy texts of my religion not come from a god they have no god in them.
de omnibus dubitandum
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
29 Dec 12
Look closely,I'm sure you will discover something of God's nature in them. Since God is connected to all people,even if mankind wrote your holy book, one can find God especially if your holy book teaches goodness, love or kindness of any kind. I think it is a good thing that you see your holy book for what it really is. This is something many need to do with their holy book.
@taheraa (1545)
• Giza, Egypt
3 Jan 13
I wonder from you so much, how you want to collect evidence that the Quran is not from God, I wonder of you because you want to stay away from the right path, while that if you want to track the journey towards the truth, you had to ask the opposite question, which is, are thereclear evidence that the Qur'an sent from God.
And tell you that I, in earlier discussions, regarding this topic I've mentioned a lot of evidence for that.
Your quote:
" God is Unconditional Love with Great Intellect. This, I think most people can agree upon. Anyone who can create universes Has Great Intellect."
I tell you that:
God, who has this great mind, which is difficult for humans describe its borders, so as to narrow our horizon.
How such a great mind !!, And with that Unconditional Love !!, leave people without a clear approach which shows them the way to righteousness in order to follow him, and the wrong way to avoid. They then choose between those two routes by their free choice.
bird, If you want to prove to you that the Koran from God, I have a lot of evidence for that, but you need patience and be patient and not rush in just listed the saved speech that always been what you write.
OK.
My best regards.
@taheraa (1545)
• Giza, Egypt
5 Jan 13
There is a difference between us. I am leading people toward God Through facts and evidence found in the curriculum, sent by God to humans. This approach, which does not believe in what it said, and claims that it is man-made.
and you are leading people to Where? !!!
I do not find in your words something that benefits you lead people to anything, but to the sender and the Saved speech. !!!
The God who is no god but He, if the insured eat coarser food, and housing the smallest house, he feels that God loves him, that he has a good future, and in the Hereafter he won, he is the happiest people, so if you know the kings of what we are to fight us by the sword.
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds
I am ready to give you many evidence, that the Koran from God, but yet to be neutral on the issue of who was revealed the Quran. This is because prior belief for a particular issue, closes the mind to accept any other inputs even been sound.
Are you ready ?.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
4 Jan 13
There is a difference between us. I am leading people toward God and you are leading people toward your holy book which you believe comes from God. I am not pointing the way toward beliefs as you are.
Why do you think there are but two routes? Why do you think God wants to limit your view to only two choices? God does not restrict or limit your education. Further God does not intimidate your choices as your holy book attempts to do.
I realized you probably have been taught your holy book is God from when you were a small child. That can be very powerful, however God wants us to be able to think and discover for ourselves what truth really is rather than blindly following and accepting others.
You say you think God should give a clear approach. Discover God's system. It is a clear approach to not only righteousness but great wisdom and knowledge. It requires no rule book. God is teaching you to love unconditionally yet you do not see. You will in time.
As for giving you a rule book,it has never been needed. You are not alone. God has always been here. If you are really aware of God's intellect even though you do not really know God then you must know you are going to have to Reach. Are you REACHING?? I fear you are too engulfed in your holy book to look up. Are the petty things mankind holds so dear really that important to you that you would accept them as coming from God too. Reach for the higher level. Discover what is.
As for your holy book and evidence you wish to provide. Filter out mankind's part in your holy book. I will be Happy to share Allah's part in it with you.
You have all my Love and Kindness!!
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
30 Dec 12
If by unconditional love you mean I keep hating, disobeying and hurting others throughout my life without ever thinking of what bad I have been doing and when I meet Him He overlooks my wrong doings and rewards me, then NO!, God is not unconditional love. Although He is full of love but that love is not unconditional. I have to love Him, respect Him and obey Him in return. I have to live my life the way He pleases to show Him that I really care for what He wants. If I fail to do that, I practically tell Him I do not care much about His wishes and then it is His choice how he treats me. Indeed He is full of love, punishing me or forgiving me is solely His choice and punishing me will not make Him any superior, similarly forgiving me will not make Him any inferior. He is above all this stuff. He is The God. The Creator and everything He has created is for a purpose.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
30 Dec 12
Unconditional Love is not just giving the other what they want. Unconditional Love is doing what is in the best interest of others regardless of their actions. Is it really in the best interest to reward people who choose evil?? Of course not! It is also not just to fry them for eternity. So what is the solution? Teach those children what they need to know. When God returns our actions back to us,we see exactly what our actions really mean. We learn not only what evil is,we learn what goodness is as well. We will decide for ourselves. We will know the truth. We will Understand. Intelligence and wisdom will make the right choices after it is all seen.
Through our actions, we choose the lessons we want and need to learn. With God, there is never hate, anger, wrath, vengeance,or blame. It has never ever been about punishment. It's about Education. God loves all His children.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
1 Jan 13
God's will is only that you learn. God's will is to love all His children Unconditionally. God's will is to teach all His children great knowledge and wisdom even if that does take eternity.
Everything you do in life will return to you in time. Each chooses the lessons they need to learn. People can choose some very hard lessons for themselves. God has no need to hate or punish. In time, we will learn to love unconditionally as well. After all, isn't that what everyone wants to return?? Within free will,it does take time for many to figure this out.
Seeing the bad choices of others and the lessons they are learning is a reminder of what the answers really are. It has never been an excuse to hate or wish harm on others.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
3 Jan 13
"How can your holy book come from God if it uses fear and intimidation to gain followers??" – Tell me how the Bible intimidates people.
"How can your holy book come from God if it uses blame??" – Tell me how the Bible uses blame.
"How can your holy book come from God if it teaches to hate others who do not believe or make bad choices in their lives??" – Tell me where hating others is encouraged in the Bible.
"How can your holy book come from God if it places women or any other person as second class to another??" – Show me from the Bible where God makes anyone second class.
"How can your holy book come from God if it teaches eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption for what crime would justify this punishment, not believing??" – Show me from the Bible where anyone is not given a chance at redemption.
"God is at a higher Level. God is above the petty things mankind holds so dear such as blame,wanting to punish, hate, greed, controlling others, putting people down and teaching everyone something is wrong with them from birth. If you find these petty things in your holy book, isn't that the Proof that it doesn't come from God??" – Exactly were are these things found in the Bible?
"If you do not see this or are blind to this, doesn't that just mean you do not really understand what these petty things really are?? If you truly understood, how could you ever choose them??" – You're blind to the truth found in the Bible if you cannot see that its message is the love, forgiveness, mercy and grace of God?
"Though your holy book does not come from God," -- You are lying. The Bible does come from God.
"God is in people thus God ends up in some form in them." – Only those who have invited Him to come in. For the others there is still hope because God and His influence are still in the world.
Isn’
"The teaching of unconditional love and kindness does speak from God." – The Bible's message of God's forgiveness, even though we don't deserve it, shows us His unconditional love. Why, do you choose to opposed it?
"So when you read your holy book, filter mankind's part out." – The entire Bible is God breathed.
"There might not be much left but you can still see God." – Everything will remain just as it is and as always been. Heaven and earth will pass away, but God's Word is forever. The Bible will never pass away.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
4 Jan 13
You have made direct accusations against the Bible but have given no Biblical references for any of your accusations. Do you not see evil in making accusations that are not backed up with evidence? Why do you do that? Are you evil?
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
5 Jan 13
Whether one is good or evil is decided by each of us. I can not decide for you. Let's not kid ourselves that you do not know the parts of the bible that I refer to. I suppose I could take the effort and find verses like the one that tells women to be submissive to their husbands but what is the point. You aren't listening anyway and I have better things to do like discovering more truth from God than worrying about whether you believe or not. I do not want you to believe. I want you to discover for yourself.
You are free to choose and judge as you please. I will not do it for you.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
4 Jan 13
Why do you choose not to see what is? What crime could justify eternal fire? Not accepting? Not believing?
Do you think it's right to convince people there is something wrong with them at birth? This is Evil.
Isn't it evil to misrepresent God telling people all God cares about is their belief?
Isn't it fear and intimidation when you attempt to alter someone's actions with the threat of hell?
Aren't women second class simple because they are commanded to be submissive??
Perhaps, you should read your holy book again. Take off those rose colored glasses.
As I have said, God is in everything. Your holy book does teach people to Love. One could never say that source is not God's. When you take your journey to discover God, you will discover what part mankind plays in your holy book. You will then be able to filter that out. Until you are willing to open your eyes and discover what is, you will be choosing to be blind to the truth. The choice is yours. I can not help you with that.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
30 Dec 12
On what authority do you make your description of God and your claim concerning God's scripture?
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
31 Dec 12
"Do I now need permission to speak the truth??"
That's the problem. You don't speak the truth only your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but it should be understood that is all it is.
"As for my descriptions of God, they come from personal experiences."
We only have your word for that, and as I've said, who are you?
You are giving the same lines as always. You don't seem to understand that there is no reason to believe you. Who are you that anyone should take you seriously? You make statements and give no evidence to back up anything you say. Can you give me any legitimate reason why I should believe you?
Perhaps you should take a few steps back to reassess your beliefs and why you are not able to back up anything with evidence.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
31 Dec 12
Authority?? Do I now need permission to speak the truth?? As for my descriptions of God, they come from personal experiences. I do not depend on words in a book or words from mankind. You should not either. You are well capable of discovering God for yourself just like I have. What holds you back? Is God so much more appealing in a book rather in person?? I understand to some yes. Part of the evil religions generate is the fear of God. God has never ever been One to be feared.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
31 Dec 12
OK, bestboy. Let's go through it again. I place truth in the world. You do not have proof of this truth until you search and discover whether it is the truth or not. Burden of proof rests on the one who seeks the truth. Do you seek the truth, bestboy?
Each must be able to stand on their own two feet. That is very important. You should never have another making your choices or controlling your thoughts. With this in mind, I allow you the freedom to choose and think for yourself. It is all up to you what you decide. I have placed truth or at least something in your lap. What will you do?? God is watching.
Of course, if I valued the petty things of mankind and wanted to control your thinking through a set of beliefs like religion does, I would be breaking my neck to get something for you to accept or believe in. Look closely. I'm not dealing in beliefs as you have in the past.
Religion has taught you to value beliefs. I will not lead you in that direction. Since that is the only direction you really want, it will be a struggle for you. I do understand that. My goal must remain the same or I become like mankind and religion and less like God. I do understand God and God's way. I see the genius in it. I can not go back. You are free to choose whatever you like. I will be happy. Those who are ready to move forward will act on what I have said. They will see the door for which I have been pointing.
@JanEdward (68)
• Italy
23 Mar 13
To write a book in only one language dont seem very efficient to spread the word of GOD,when there are so many language on this planet.
Since GOD is all knowing he would have known that that wouldnt be the best way to do it.
If you let 10 religious people talk about the bible,they cant even agree among themselves what GOD true word is.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
23 Mar 13
Yes, you are right. God would be much clearer than that. It is so obvious God isn't the one sending the holy books. I'm afraid beliefs have a hold on many people. It blinds them to the real truth which stares them in the face. We must point them in the right direction even if they do not listen for there will come a time when they will value truth more.
@Iriene88 (5343)
• Malaysia
15 Jan 13
Hmmm.... I would said based on what you wrote, the Holy Book
that I am based on is from God. It teaches us unconditional love,
forgiveness, give thanks... and REDEMPTION.
I can felt God presence as I journeyed through the path that our
Lord was brought up, where he prayed and .... more than 2000 years
ago. His purpose for this world and for our lives. At the Garden
of Gethsemane, at the place of His Birth ... all are REAL!
I truly hope that all people in this world will find God and live
the life that God want us to rejoice.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
16 Jan 13
You do focus on the good. One always has the choice to teach Unconditional Love or the threats, fear and intimidation which comes with many religions. You mention Redemption. For what do you need redeeming from? Aren't you learning your lessons as everyone by Living your lessons? This is God's way. Forgive you for living is never viable in reality. It is spawn from belief systems that want people to feel something is wrong with them. They want to supply the fix for a problem they are attempting to create.
Example: I know this wonderful Christian lady. She is so full of love and kindness that she would do anything for anybody. What is the old saying? She would even give you the shirt off her back. Well, this lady was feeling bad one day. Why? She worried she wasn't good enough to go to heaven. Tell me those who attempt to convince her she was bad were not evil. After a talk, she's ok, but I hope you see my point.