Our Govt Backs The Church In Discriminating Against Hiring "Gays & Sinners"
By veganbliss
@veganbliss (3895)
Adelaide, Australia
January 17, 2013 12:03am CST
What are your thoughts on this? What would you think if this happened in your country? Are you in favour of the seperation of Church & State? Do you see this as a "win" for employers who can make any conditions they deem fit for hiring staff? Do you see the wider ramifications of this? Or do you believe an essentially taxpayer funded organization like the Church should be exemplary in hiring qualified people who want to work for them regardless of their lifestyle choices... just as our government seems to be leading the way in this? Do you see this as boding ill for anyone categorized into any of these minority groups down here?
1 person likes this
7 responses
@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Jan 13
Sorry if my response does not immediately address your post but I hope it gets there eventually.
Some issues are so emotionally 'charged' that people quickly polarise in to one or two extremes and debate may push the to retreat into further into their position, missing the truth that may lie in between. (And some of course choose to adopt an extreme position just because it makes more fun in discussion
Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, homosexuals should not in any means be treated in a manner that denigrates their humanity or value as people. And when applying for a job should be judged on their merit for that job, regardless of whether the organisation is funded by state or not.
There is, I believe, an exception to this, one who ministers or teaches in matters of religion. Being a homosexual is not a sin but homosexual activity is as Jesus confirms. A minister or teacher of religion stands as an exemplar and one cannot advocate following the Word and at the same time, by one's life, advocate going against the Word, therefore a practising homosexual should not be considered for such jobs in the same way as one who is a drunkard, murderer or thief and unrepentant should not. This is, therefore, not discrimination and is it a matter that can be determined other than by what is written.
I am in favour of disestablishmentarianism.
all the best, urban
4 people like this
@vandana7 (100297)
• India
18 Jan 13
Happy New Year Urban. :)
As to pedophiles...what I meant was no discrimination implied that if the person had the requisite qualifications and experience, and was not considered unfit for the job by reason of issues such as theft and being a pedophile, then no discrimination based on race, caste, creed, etc.
Obviously, if a person is known to be a pedophile, I expect him to be behind bars, and punished in such a way that his or her resume indicates that he or she is known to be a pedophile. Obviously, that becomes a disqualification, right? :)
Ditto for thieves. :)
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@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Jan 13
Thanks Urban. It's important to differentiate between all the different aspects bound up in this one.
I neglected to post the news article too, of which I've found three, so here's just one of them:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/antigay-rights-to-stay-20130115-2crma.html
I agree with all of your comments. I'm also worried that people on all levels down here will take this all the wrong way. I'm also concerned that a "witch-hunt" may develop within the church & they will scruitinize their current employees all the more thoroughly, many of whom started out as volunteers. Job stability across many sections of society down here is becoming an ever increasing issue.
Can you point us to the scripture showing us that Jesus condemns homosexual activity? I wasn't aware of any, but I may have overlooked it.
And being disestablishmentarist, if I have it correctly, would you be in favour of limiting the power of the Church, especially in regard to its growing close relationship to the government?
I think there was also a fair amount of politics involved in Labor's move, as now the coalition cannot really have a majority win in this year's election when the Church is "on side" with Labor.
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@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
18 Jan 13
Hi veganbliss, I think it is all very wrong. Gays and lesbians pay taxes just like everyone else and are entitled to the same privileges. As for the church, they should be treated like any other business and not given any tax breaks. Most churches discriminate against Gays and lesbians anyway and have to share part of the blame for the abuses that have been heaped upon them, because of something they have no control over. Blessings.
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@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
20 Jan 13
Hi again veganbliss, It is good here in Canada although the church does have tax exemptions, but as you say they also offer some community programs. Religion does not have a big impact on politics here, something for which I am very grateful. Blessings.
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@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
18 Jan 13
Well said, Pose, & I agree.
I hope it doesn't happen like this for you up in Canada. Are you happy with the Church / State balance in Canada right now?
I can see one problem with ending tax exemptions from the Church. I think they will axe their volunteer programs & community aid, or at least the funding for these. This would place a big burden on governments to provide to make up for it. So unfortunately, I can't see how anything in this area will change for us here.
Many Blessings.
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@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Jan 13
Or whatever? So paedophiles given equal opportunity to work with kids? Thieves given equal opportunity to work with money?
all the best, urban
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@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Jan 13
That's a fine ideal, Lady V, but I'm worried now about the practical application of this. I think employees need to know that they fit in on pretty much every level with the existing workplace culture. I'm wondering if existing employees should be consulted on how well they would accept working alongside of certain people, day in, day out? How well someone can do the job is one matter that can easily be assessed, but it gets tricky when lifestyle choices are taken into account. I think it depends on how each case is handled. There is a fine line between discrimination based on lifestyle choice & telling the unsuccessful candidate that the company has found a more suitable candidate for the job.
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@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
18 Jan 13
Does every democracy have Church & State as being seperate? And just to what extent are they seperate in said countries?
The funding here is indirect in that huge tax exemptions are granted to the church. But the media here likes to use a certain mix of words to show us that the church is taxpayer funded & should therefore comply with our government's policy to preference the hiring of indigenous people, gay people, etc. There are, for example, many gays of both sexes in government & opposition here. They are all doing a most excellent job. So I agree they are among the most industrious & productive.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
18 Jan 13
Yes, that's an excellent commonality... for the good of the people. Perhaps they each have different ideas on exactly what is good for the people & exactly what or how many people it will do good to & likewise not be so very good for?
@cmiller09 (3)
• United States
17 Jan 13
I am in favor of Separation of Church and State. There is no place for government in the churches, and no place for churches in the government.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
18 Jan 13
Welcome to MyLot & thanks for stopping by.
I think Church & the Government here have a long history of working together to different degrees, at different times on many issues, often with mixed results for different people. There's a sort-of Christian Lobby Group here & I think you guys also have one in the States. So, do you believe they should be given more or less power?
@stk40m (1119)
• Koeln, Germany
17 Jan 13
I think that discrimination is still a huge problem in modern society. Not only for gays and lesbians but also for anyone who diverges from ''standards''. Church and State should be separate but neither of them should practice any sort of dicrimination unless it is discrimination against hate or violence. So, discrimination against gays and lesbians, No, but discrimination against sinners, Yes. Why should anyone want to employ a malevolent person anyway unless the employer was malevolent, too?
I think it could be a very annoying thing for people of those minority groups if they want to work for a certain institution of the government or the church or a certain company that won't employ them simply because they belong to those minority groups. They would possibly have to choose a job they don't really like and then they may get very unhappy.
Eventually the government should be exemplary in the way they deal with minority groups, i.e. rights and laws should be the same for them as for everyone else. And schools should teach this type of tolerance and respect from early on so that society on the whole becomes livable for everyone.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Jan 13
Happy New Year.
Good to hear from you again.
There seems to be a lot of movement, especially in the more progressive churches, that homosexuals should be accepted more than what they have been in the past.
Our government on all levels seems to be very exemplary on the issue of tolerance & acceptance of these things, but the church seems to be setting the cause back a few decades, or at least that's how it appears.
It must be terrible for someone who has worked & volunteered all their lives for the church & found out at some stage that they were gay, meaning that now, they can no longer work for the church, especially when their present job ends & they find that they cannot even be transferred to another department within the church.