Am I Being Unreasonable??
By Jennifer
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
Valdosta, Georgia
April 6, 2013 10:21am CST
Okay, a little confusion happened this morning with someone and their payments. So I thought I would ask all of you here for your thoughts on this.
ALL of my fees are paid UP FRONT because of payment problems I have had in the past. So this one person wants to pay Bi-Weekly. I said that is fine but on the 1st I need two weeks of payment and on the 15th I need two weeks of payment up front.
Apparently this is a problem because I didn't provide the care yet... But I always tell everyone payment is due up front. I told the person this the first day they used my services! They use the same amount of hours every week so it's not like they will be over charged or anything, we know the hours they will be using my services already...
Does anyone here think that is unreasonable to ask for payment up front when providing a service?
8 people like this
34 responses
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
6 Apr 13
if i ever got back into that business, I would ask for payment upfront just like you are. I got burned on it way too many times. You work too hard for that. If he does not want to play by your rules then tell him to take his kids elsewhere and stick to it. Even IF he were to take time off from work and lose a days pay...you STILL should get paid because you still were there and ready for the kids. Don't bend your rules or everyone will be expecting the same favors.
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (160879)
• United States
7 Apr 13
I was too easy going as a daycare provider and I was too easy going as a landlord. I lost money both places. Here most places expect to be paid whether you go on vacation or not.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
7 Apr 13
It was very very rare that I accepted checks. There was one lady who was a teacher and she would even pay me on the there were school vacations. Now if I didn't have her kids for a week or the summer, then I did not expect to get paid. Those were anticipated vacations. Her outlook was that she got paid for them and so should I. Parents like her were rare. I had one mother that was getting paid directly from the State for her childcare costs. She would cash and spend the checks. It added up to a ton and when I called the State to inform them that they needed to send the checks to me as I was not getting paid, they told me that they could not talk to me because of confidentiality laws!! I never ever got paid for that. I will say that 99% of any problems I had in doing daycare was with the parents.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
7 Apr 13
I have been burnt from being owed too. One lady owed me $1,000 one time because she kept writing bad checks and the bank didn't catch it at first, for a while! So I had all of these fees and thank God she was military-I went to her chain of command and they took it right out of her pay. But if she wasn't military I would have had to take her to court and who has time for all of that mess?? Not me!
So, I said after her that from now on I will always charge up front no matter what...And I will no longer accept checks.
1 person likes this
@dagami (1158)
• Rome, Italy
6 Apr 13
some service providers only require a deposit. since it's the first time for this person, maybe he wants to test the waters first that is why he doesn't want to pay up front. he wants to be sure that he's ok with your services before he spends money. in this way, if he changes his mind in the middle, he doesn't lose money.
i suggest that if you have others on the wait list, don't accomodate this person. you may be left hanging with a slot vacant later.
2 people like this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
He has already been using me for 2 weeks now so he knows the care he is getting. And he knew the payment was due up front. Now all of a sudden he has a problem with the payment system...
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
He is in the military and has another job plus his wife works, trust me he does fine financially. Plus his wife was just getting her hair and nails done the other day. If she has money for that, they have the money to pay me. I already gave him a good deal on my services so I just cannot bend anymore without taking a loss...
1 person likes this
@ladygator (3465)
• United States
6 Apr 13
No that is how it is in a lot of daycares that I know of. Its so that you are paying for the week thats coming up. Many of the programs here require a two week payment when starting and an enrollment feel. The going rate around here ranges from 150 to 200 dollars a week. And that doesnt always include food. Then for any field trips its extra. I ran a home daycare for 13 years. Parents were the worst part sometimes. Some of them were just impossible. I still have a little boy that I am watching just for a few more weeks, but come summer I am done because it got way to stressful for me to handle.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
Yeah, it is the same way here too. All of the Daycares and all of the Childcare Providers expect payment up front. There is no getting around that. I had a customer owe me $1,000 in bad checks before, after that I said NO MORE CHECKS and always payment up front. I had to. I could not be owed like that again...
My fee for 1 child is $100 per week, for 2 its $130 per week for 3 its $160 per week, which does include food, snacks and drinks.
The parents are the worst! I love dealing with the kids, I dread when the parents come because they are the hard ones to deal with!!
1 person likes this
@ladygator (3465)
• United States
6 Apr 13
I wouldnt take checks either. I am right near the University Of Michigan and my rates used to be 150.00 fulltime toddler and up. Infants 175.00 It did include meals and snacks. That was for one, and I would decide on a fair rate for multiples. My hardest thing was dealing with the state assistance. I recently have one that put her app in in DECEMBER!!! and the baby still isnt added on. So I just cant do it. It doesnt cover my rent hike and I dont want to add any more kids, its just to much. I know that she doesnt have the means to pay what it should be.
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
6 Apr 13
I think this person wants to get childcare and then not pay for it. There should be no problem with paying in advance. What's their problem. You give them a receipt that says what childcare is covered in the payment, I presume... so I see no problem. They know they will get the care. That saves you from having to sue them when they decide to stiff you.
The way I see it LMB is that they don't have to use you. If they don't want to pay in advance like all the rest, they must have a reason for wanting you NOT to be paid. I would question their honesty, to tell you the truth.
I would stick with your policy because it works. If anyone isn't satisfied with it can go somewhere else for childcare. That's what I think.
You don't want to get stiffed, so that is why you have them paid in advance.
2 people like this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
I agree with you, that is how it seems to me as well. They are not going to get away with not paying me. I do this with all clients, everyone knows I charge up front for my services and no one else has a problem with it... I don't understand why this one person is giving me so much trouble except that he just doesn't want to pay me, which won't happen.
That's right, he can use anyone he wants to use... So why complain? If he doesn't like it he can go somewhere else. Too bad for him, everyone does the same thing! Lol. That is his problem though, not mine...
My policy has worked for years and I won't change it for him or anyone else. He can find another Childcare Provider if he doesn't like it. I was just making sure I was not being unfair with it... I am glad to know I'm not and others see I am not as well. =) Thanks for your help with this!
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
6 Apr 13
Yup, and I would tell him you cannot change your policy. He is free to look elsewhere for child are.
1 person likes this
@Raine38 (12391)
• United States
6 Apr 13
I don't think you are being reasonable. I ask some friends who are also in the business and they all tell me that all services were paid upfront. Those who didn't pay at the end of the day, meaning those who only require their services on a certain day because something came up. But wouldn't be needing the services again after that.
Just be gentle yet firm with your payment scheme. If you try to "accommodate" their request, the rest of your clients might hear about this and start demanding the same. If they still give you the trouble for it, maybe they should start to look for some other care providers.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
I know the first sentence threw me at first too SWP! Lol.
Yes all of the Childcare Providers do the same thing here so even if he goes somewhere else they will still have to pay up front and their services are more costly than mine! So, he can go have fun with someone else for Childcare but he will still have to pay up front.
I know, I will not back down on this because I think I am being fair. It is the same way for all of my clients. I won't change it for one person because then your right, everyone will expect the same thing for them...
@emily7339 (1337)
• Malaysia
6 Apr 13
As far as I know, our child care or babysitting services are all being paid upfront. That is the begining of the month. If your client has confirmed with you for the service, there should be no problem in collecting upfront. This is the normal practice here.
2 people like this
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
6 Apr 13
a thought if hes in the Military and he is used to ordering underlings around that may be why he wants to go against the grain of your set up,to me this is the way most businesses like you rs always demand the money up front otherwise too many people might be tempted to go around to different places and not pay for any of their care.It makes business sense t protect yourself against people using you then walking out without paying a cent.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
Yes, thank you. Every single daycare and provider here does the same thing I am doing. So even if he goes somewhere else for care they will do things the same exact way... I don't understand the problem.
Thank you for your response, and your right. Everyone does this.
1 person likes this
@emily7339 (1337)
• Malaysia
7 Apr 13
Well, Hatley has a very good point and I absolutely agree with her
People can be selfish at times and may take advantage of others. I hope LMB will not have to face these unnecessary hassle of giving service and not being paid. So to collect what is due to her upfront is very reasonable as it has been a practice here in our place too
1 person likes this
@wolfie34 (26771)
• United Kingdom
6 Apr 13
Do these people not understand that you have to earn a living, you are not doing it out of the goodness of your heart for gratis and neither are you a charity, you have your home to look after and keep, you have your family and you have bills to pay! They are paying for the service you offer, and I think under the circumstance you are being extremely reasonable. What if you were to look after their children and they don't pay you for doing it? No money upfront, or no service, their choice, you can find plenty of people who will be reasonable, they will find it hard pushed to find someone like you!
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
7 Apr 13
I know wolfie, I don't understand these people I really don't. I really think he was trying to get something for nothing!
Every daycare and childcare provider charges up front, at least here they do. So even if he goes somewhere else he will still have to do the same thing! LOL. Some people...
I do have bills to pay and food to buy for THEIR children to eat while they are here!
@GardenGerty (160879)
• United States
6 Apr 13
If this is your standard, this is what they need to do. Your other option would be to run a type of escrow account where they would be like a rental deposit. It does require them to trust you to always be there when they have contracted for, but it also requires you to trust them not to use more hours than they have paid for. It is business. You are not doing this just for the joy of having their kids at your house.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
7 Apr 13
I have tried letting people have accounts and everything but they would try to say I didn't use childcare for that day and that day so you have it wrong. I had no way to prove that they used my services so I was losing money doing it that way...
That is why I started charging up front, which all other daycare's and providers do as well here...
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
10 Apr 13
I've had and am having 3 services provided for me in recent weeks. I had solar panels installed and paid when the job was done. I had the back of my house clad and the guttering fixed and I paid a deposit, then a lump sum when the materials were delivered and then a final sum on completion. I'm also having a new kitchen installed. The builder wanted half up front so he could buy the materials and then I will pay the rest on completion of the job.
So, it varies. When my kids were in school, term fees were paid up front. My bills are paid after the service is provided.
Whether they are unreasonable or not, these are your terms.. The client can take it or leave it. . You can still be courteous and friendly but these are your terms.
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
13 Apr 13
Personally, I don't think he was trying to get something for nothing, I see a guy who likes to give orders and throw his weight around and argue and bend people to his will. He will do that to the next place too and so on till he finds someone he can push around.
It's a shame you can't blacklist him somehow to all the other day Care providers around the place.
If you don't want to lose him as a client, ask for an up front bond of two weeks to be held in case of him missing a payment. If he misses, you don't lose and you can say the extra week is for admin fees for the ongoing paperwork of running an account for him (and it will need to be renewed every six months.) Reckon he's just trying to be a smart azz.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
For Childcare it is very much normal to pay up front. Which is why I don't understand what his problem is, even he goes somewhere else here he will have to pay up front! Everyone does here with childcare!! Where I live every single provider and daycare charge up front. So, he can go somewhere else if he wants to but it will be the same thing.
He was just trying to get something for nothing...
1 person likes this
@artemeis (4194)
• China
7 Apr 13
If your client is aware of your payment arrangements and engages your services, then it would be deemed that he is agreeable to pay upfront. So, I do not see that you are being unreasonable.
Since the rest of these similar businesses are operating on receiving payment upfront, you are not making yourself odd or exceptional on being a trend breaker. If your client does not like the arrangement and you cannot compromise further, then it would be advisable that he goes elsewhere with his business.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
They have been using me for a while now, no surprises from me. So, I think he just didn't want to pay...
Yes all daycare's and childcare providers charge up front here. And I told him the payments were up front the day he started...
@lelin1123 (15595)
• Puerto Rico
6 Apr 13
I have never heard of total payment for services upfront before the service was completed. I have hard of half down upfront and when the job or service is completed then the rest of the money is paid in full. I could definitely understand people having a problem with this especially if you are giving them the service for the first time. Regular customers should not have a problem I would think. I know personnaly I would have a problem.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
7 Apr 13
That is the way Childcare works. Not all businesses but Childcare works this way. You pay up front. Every Daycare and Childcare Provider charge up front so no one gets away with not paying. I had a lady in the past write bad checks and she owed me $1,000! From then on, I have always charged up front.
And this person has been using my services for two weeks now!! So it should not have been an issue at all...
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
6 Apr 13
Not for the line of work you are in.
You are providing child care services and since you always tell them payment is due upfront due to payment problems. Asking for payment upfront is how many child care businesses operate though some of the larger ones will send invoices to parents.
Otherwise, it depends on the service you are providing. Such as your smaller wedding business you and your sister would probably have to ask for half upfront and the other half once the client sees the finished product. That is how most, not all, but most of the businesses in the wedding industry work.
For my work, if I have a scheduled appointment whether I ask to get paid before or after depends on what the client and I are working on. If it is something like setting up QuickBooks for your business, then I ask for half upfront and the rest when the work is completed. If it is for a longer period of time such as them wanting to hire me to do payroll for six months, I charge a 35% non-refundable fee which is basically 35% of what they are to pay me for the job and I require payments to be made each month towards their account with the full balance due one week before their last week of service from me.
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
Exactly, every daycare I have ever worked at required a deposit AND being paid up front. That is how this works in Childcare, I thought this was common knowledge-apparently not. Lol.
Right for the wedding business we are going to do half up front and the other half after the work is completed. My husband when he had a Remodeling company did half up front and half when done.
I didn't think this was such a hard concept to understand! Ugh, ridiculous... Some people drive me crazy!
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
6 Apr 13
Lol. A lot of people drive me crazy.
However, I would think it was common knowledge but some people don't understand how different industries work. I saw you mentioned he has used your services before so this shouldn't come as a shock to him or anything. At least you are only asking to be paid up front instead of a deposit as well. He should be happy about that and just make the payments. It is not really any different than paying bills and such. Your bill is due when it is due.
Hopefully everything works out.
1 person likes this
@pandora22 (868)
• Romania
6 Apr 13
You should keep your position and ask him to pay you up front. Many employers are tricky. They avoid paying you up front, they let you work and after a while they say that they are not happy with your service so they don't have to pay you for the job. I have a friend who is a great baby sitter and it happened to her. The funny thing is that the rich persons are cheesy when they have to pay the money to their employees. There are people out there who fit perfectly uncle Scrooge
1 person likes this
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
6 Apr 13
Yeah I think so too and that is what I am sticking with. I was just making sure I was not being unreasonable here. But everyone in the Childcare Field does the same thing, they all charge up front for their services!
And no one else has a problem with the way my payment system is, except for him...
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
7 Apr 13
Exactly there are too many people that do not pay...
@celticeagle (168112)
• Boise, Idaho
7 Apr 13
I feel that if you tell people upfront that it is on a upfront basis then they should have said they didn't like it back at the first conversation, not now. So it sounds like this person is just looking for a reason not to pay or she/he has had more time to think about it and doesn't like it. And if they have a problem I would tell them it is because I had a problem in the past with someone not paying me and that is why I am having to do things this way. Dishonest people cause a ripple affect for honest people.
@celticeagle (168112)
• Boise, Idaho
8 Apr 13
I think he has the kind of hearing that only hears what it wants to. He has had time to think about it now and it isn't the norm so he is questioning it.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
8 Apr 13
Yeah if he had a problem with it he should not have agreed to it when they first started with me. I told him the very first day he used my services that I expect payment up front... It was fine then so I don't see why it's a problem now!
1 person likes this
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
8 Apr 13
Culturally speaking, that is unreasonable. Reasonable, being defined by the culture, means that these people you are expecting have money up front, look around and see very few others doing that.
The typical norm, is that you do the service, and then get paid.
However, there are many who require payment up front.
However, you have to have clout to do this.
If you have two comparable people giving service, and one requires payment up front, and the other does not, most people are going to go for the pay-me-later service.
The key for you is, make sure you are doing a better, more consistent job, than anyone else. When people realize this, they'll pay up front.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
13 Apr 13
Ah, then I apologize. When you asked "am I being unreasonable?" the implication is that you are doing something abnormal.
If you had said this was related to child care, I would have known that it is not abnormal.
You have to admit that in general we have a "pay it all later" society today.
But yes, in Childcare, pre-pay is very normal. Especially for small business childcare, you simply don't have the ability to subsidize other people's child care needs. Even if you wanted to, you just don't have any ability to do that.
Though if you did, I would still advise you to demand upfront payment anyway. Best thing we can do is teach people to be wise, and responsible with their lives. Helping people out of their constant mistakes only helps them remain in their mistakes, and avoid the needed changes in their lives to improve.
I learned that the hard way.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
For Childcare it is very much the norm to pay up front. Which is why I don't understand what his problem is, even if he goes somewhere else here he will have to pay up front! Everyone does here with childcare!!
He was just trying to get something for nothing...
@bounce58 (17387)
• Canada
12 Apr 13
I think that any payment scheme that you want would be acceptable as long as the client agreed to it.
I read in one of your comments here that this client has already been using your services for a couple of weeks, then he shouldn't be complaining about it as he already knows the work that you do.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
Yes, he agreed to it when he first brought his children to me. Then a few weeks later he has a problem with it all of a sudden?? That is ridiculous to me!
@jenny1015 (13366)
• Philippines
7 Apr 13
I think that your terms is okay. Do you provide them with a contract just to be sure that they know everything that they need to know?
@jenny1015 (13366)
• Philippines
9 Apr 13
Well, maybe she is short of funds and was trying to know if you could give her an exemption.....
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
8 Apr 13
Yes there is a contract. And he has been using my services for 2 weeks now and all of a sudden he has a problem with this, I have no idea why...
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
I didn't think so either. He did not have to sign a contract with me but he was told the first day that I charge up front for my services, and he was fine with that...
@Inderjeetkaur (944)
• India
9 Apr 13
It will be better to ask him to pay the due amount first and that you will continue the work only when you'll be paid up front payment. I take advance fee for the tuition I give to students. I allow the delay of 3-4 days, but not more than that. You never know who is planning to use your service for free.
@LovingMyBabies (85288)
• Valdosta, Georgia
12 Apr 13
Yeah I told him up front that my payments are due the first day. Since he did not have it that first day I allowed him to pay that Monday since it was Friday that the care was provided. I try to work with my clients but he was just trying to get out of payment...