Was God a worse genocidal maniac than Adolf Hitler?
By John Welford
@indexer (4852)
Leicester, England
September 28, 2015 10:05am CST
Everyone knows that Adolf Hitler was one of the most evil people ever to have existed, but he pales into insignificance when compared to God!
At least when Hitler invaded a country he did not insist on every man, woman and child being slaughtered, but that is what God told Moses, Aaron and Joshua to do when they invaded the "Promised Land".
The "God is love" notion takes a bit of a knock when you look at the Old Testament. He seems to have harboured nothing but hate for the unfortunate races that had the misfortune to live in the territory destined as the home of his "chosen people".
This is, of course, after he is supposed to have wiped out the whole of humanity (with the exception of a single family) at the "Great Flood". He doesn't sound like the sort of God to excite a great deal of admiration, let alone worship!
7 people like this
9 responses
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
28 Sep 15
If you believe in God, then you believe that He is the supreme being of the universe, and as such, not subject to your judgment or logic or way of thinking. If you don't believe in God, then none of that happened and so why worry about it?
4 people like this
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
28 Sep 15
What are subject to judgment are people who do terrible things and then claim God told them to do those things. One could place Moses and Co comfortably in that category - on the assumption that they are historical characters, of course.
One can also judge fictional characters - as we do all the time when reading the works of great writers such as Shakespeare. On that level, God as portrayed in the Bible has a great deal to answer for. That is important , because many people today regard God as not being being fictional and base their lives on what they take to be his commandments. What I am saying is that they are basing their lives on shaky foundations in that case.
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@OneOfMany (12150)
• United States
28 Sep 15
Perhaps we can wonder about the mentality of his followers as well. How many Christians do you know that seem to enjoy the thought of being rewarded while seeing others cast into eternal suffering? They are heartless and sadistic people who enjoy the thought of others suffering in agony. They laugh and say "We told you so! Hahaha!"
2 people like this
@OneOfMany (12150)
• United States
28 Sep 15
@indexer Yes, I know the same, but I'm just saying there are a large amount that do this. Several I have talked to lately are like this. They say "well those are the rules and the rules are everything" or "It's not of God then it is evil." No compromise types that don't have any independence left in their lives.
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
28 Sep 15
It is unfortunately easy to turn Christianity into a nasty religion - the Westboro Baptists come to mind - although it must also be said that some of the best people in the world are Christians, and most of the Christians I know are thoroughly pleasant people who would do anything for you if they could. It is not essential to believe in Hell if you also believe in Heaven.
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@munhozmib (3836)
• Sao Paulo, Brazil
28 Sep 15
Greetings, John.
This discussion might just become a war zone, hahaha.
Indeed, the bible God is not really all about love. It is a vengeance-seeker, an evil-and-good God. It's just like most Gods in mythology. They had personalities, they were not perfect. They were not made purely from love. Gods in mythology were envious, fought one another, repented for what they had made, made lots of mistakes. And the biblical God seems to follow that path, as well. I believe it's because Yaveh / Jave God has a lot of other cultures in his story.
You can see God ordering his followers to kill some, to enslave people, to love and to hate. It is quite confusing, isn't it? It's just a shame that not everybody is willing to discuss this so openly. They take God as a higher being and simply won't accept anything that would damage that idea.
Respectfully.
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@OneOfMany (12150)
• United States
28 Sep 15
"Is it better to be loved or feared?" That was the quote from history class that stuck with me for years. I tried to answer back then and never got it. Years later I found the true answer. It's best to be both. First you are feared, to spread the message quickly and to get followers, and then you are loved by those followers to keep them loyal. The followers use fear tactics (which they mistake to be love) to get others to join them. As time goes on they convince those they brought in that the message is love.
This is the basis of Christianity. The Old Testament wasn't Christian at the time, but it was the word of fear. The New Testament (and the start of the Christian religion) was the switch to love. So it's done great to follow the model of fear and love equally.
It's pretty messed up.
1 person likes this
@TGRWorzel (47)
• United Kingdom
28 Sep 15
I'd certainly say that Heinrich Himmler was a bigger genocidal maniac than Hitler.
As for God...
Well the question doesn't arise, not in my mind anyway, as God doesn't exist. The Bible is a work of fiction, admittedly with some good teachings that we would be well advised to consider, but not to be taken too literally...
@Kchitij2007 (445)
• Pune, India
29 Sep 15
Remember that Religion is a sort of a company and God its CEO, That's pretty much how this thing works, like CEO of any company is a human who has to take decisions that benefit the company as a whole so does GOD. Yes God is supposed to be benevolent and all-forgiving! Then doesn't the concept of Hell clash with his persona? Yes and No! Yes because there shouldn't be a Hell and an equivalent of God in the negative ruling it. No because it would hurt the company ( people of the religion and the world )! Could you imagine the havoc it would wreck upon if every sinner was convinced that God would forgive him for his deeds?! Methods of persecution in this life are known, scary but most importantly they are not eternal ( you are hanged, you die, end of story )! But what of the sinners who are so hardcore that do not fear it( and there are such types, there have always been) ! God being portrayed as vengeful to those who hurt his children in any manner is a method of achieving it ( you being boiled in oil for the rest of eternity does scare the living hell out of you don't it, or at least more than the same thing done here on the plane of earth where you are a mortal ).
Also those stories are fictional and just meant to convey the same message i just told. Religious texts are just meant to keep us all human. Since you can cheat a king and a country but not God, so it helps to instill that fact in all with these stories and keep them in line, keep them in peace.
1 person likes this
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
29 Sep 15
So what you are saying is that Salvation is conditional - stick to my rules or else! That does not strike me as being in line with the "God is love" image.
Religious texts - it seems to me - are much more about keeping people in line in this life than worrying about what will happen in some fictional next one!
1 person likes this
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
29 Sep 15
@Kchitij2007 One problem with Christianity is that every denomination and sect then imposes its own conditions - depending on how it interprets the Bible. These conditions therefore vary tremendously - you have to undertake certain rituals, you have to obey the dictats of the Church's leaders, you have to avoid certain behaviours in your private life, etc etc.
Each sect then states that it is right and all the others are wrong. One has a lot of sympathy with Bob Hope, who said that he did benefits for all religious groups because he would hate to blow the hereafter on a technicality!
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@Kchitij2007 (445)
• Pune, India
29 Sep 15
@indexer Well yes salvation is conditional! It is conditional in all religions! Buddhism ( the most modest and moderate of all ) also offers salvation at the cost of surrendering desire! "God is love" image is upheld in those conditions as they just ask you to do more and more of the right thing- sacrificing lust, greed and desire; your life and energy for the right purpose. I don't find God asking of such things from me in contrast to his image as all-benevolent.
Yes! They are! The texts offer you a paradise or a reincarnation in a more complete form ( sorta like company incentives and bonus ) on the condition of you not surrendering your morals and ethics, even when the going gets tough ( you getting exploited ) or easy ( you in the position to exploit others ).
@dlr297 (5409)
• United States
29 Sep 15
@indexer
God created this earth and everything on it.....He sent all of us a set of rules to follow...He gave us free will to choose to follow them or not... God also told us all what would happen to us if we followed him, and he also told us what would happen if we choose to not follow them....
You do not like the rules, so you call God names and rebel against him...What you are failing to understand is that this world belongs to God, and their is nothing you can say or do to change that fact....Even if we can not understand his reasons for doing some things..It does not mean that the reasons are not the right ones...
God has always said that he hates Sin...and all through history when it gets way out of control he destroys it....The righteous are the ones that survive....The flood and Sodom and Gomorrah are perfect examples of it....
First Moses never entered the promised Land.....
Second Aaron never entered the promised Land either...
God made a promise to the descendants of Abraham. God always keeps his promise... The promised land was to be theirs.
the Canaanites lived in wicked rebellion against the will and purposes of God. The Lord had predicted that Abraham's descendants would claim the land when "the sin of the Amorites" reached its "full measure" (Gen 15:16b). This "full measure" of sin was attained by the Canaanites in the generation leading to the Jewish conquest.
the Promised Land belonged to God before the Canaanites established temporary residency there. It had always been his plan to give this land to the descendants of Abraham: "In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here" (Gen 15:16a). The Lord did not take from the Canaanites that which was "theirs"—he reclaimed that which was his according to his foreordained purposes.
God also helped Joshua by causing a great earthquake, drying up the river, and crumbling the walls around the city.....
another battle was between David and Goliath.... a young boy against a Giant.....
@dlr297 (5409)
• United States
29 Sep 15
@indexer ...If you really understood everything....The whole point is to follow the word of God....and you would know the difference.....These things would never happen if the word of God is followed....
Nobody is innocent...we all have the sin nature....everyone sins....and yes it is the fault of the individual that makes the choice ....You make your own choices in this life....
If the Canaanites would have not been living in their sin, and would have left when they were told to like some of them did...nothing would have happened...Gods word said that the land belonged to the Jews......
The Nazis that were following orders...That is just a excuse..That is a prime example of putting the blame on some one else....They had a choice to stand for what was right.. but they each chose to do as they did....If they would have stood for what was right Hitler would not have been able to do what he did...
The whole thing about Gods free gift of salvation..Is accepting the fact that you are guilty...Saying that you are truly sorry for what you have done...You are not putting the blame on anyone else..You are accepting responsibility and asking for forgiveness.. Forgiveness is a very powerful thing....God loves us all enough that he will forgive us all....
If you open your eyes you can see that people are starting to wake up and stand for what is right.....They are starting to stand for the truth of Gods word. no matter what the cost is......
Just some examples from the last few months.....of people making a stand...In the USA
Kim Davis......Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr...The people exposing what planned parenthood is doing.....Sgt. 1st Class Charles Martland.....
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
29 Sep 15
What actually happened was that a conquering army with the blood of many innocent people on its hands sought to justify its crimes against humanity by claiming that God told them to do it.
It is a familiar technique throughout history - you assuage your guilt by passing it on to someone else. That is actually the whole message of Christianity - Jesus takes away your sin so you are left squeaky clean whatever evils you might have committed during your time on this planet.
I find that whole "it wasn't my fault" scenario to be deeply immoral - whether we are talking about ancient genocide, Nazis who were "only obeying orders", or modern Christians who offload their guilt onto an eternal scapegoat. They are all the same thing. I would much prefer those crimes and sins not to have been committed in the first place rather than justified afterwards.
@Bluedoll (16773)
• Canada
28 Sep 15
I could explain why God is not a genocidal maniac but I have my doubts if my dialogue would be very well received. The question presented in the title seems like it is not really a question at all but designed to be an introduction for the context of the post. The context demonstrates that the authors mind is already made up? @indexer
1 person likes this
@TypicalRussian (747)
• Budennovsk, Russian Federation
28 Sep 15
It seems you are inveterate atheist. Quite a lot of atheists ask the same questions. I can only say that you can't escape your fate. There is a predestination. If God is always kind, people may get used to it and do whatever they want without any moral principles. We can discuss for plenty of lines here on this topic, but i will limit myself with this answer
@indexer (4852)
• Leicester, England
28 Sep 15
I'm just looking the "facts" as presented in the Bible and wondering how anyone can come to a different conclusion!