Syrian jigsaw
By Robin Lamb
@troyburns (1405)
New Zealand
November 28, 2015 8:42pm CST
Beware of anyone, anywhere, who tells you they have a plan for defeating ISIS. Chances are they're trying to sell you something.
They do this because it's an easy sell. We all want an end to ISIS, to the conflict in Syria, to the bloody refugee crisis, so we buy into hawkish rhetoric with an eagerness born of ignorance and hope.
Sadly, however, none of these problems are going to be resolved by soundbite strategies. The bitter truth is that Syria has become a playground for a multitude of conflicting ideologies and although each player has an endgame in mind, it is not necessarily one which coalesces with any other.
There are diverse humanitarian and nationalistic goals. There are allegiances which owe more to Sunni-Shia tensions than anything else. There is the small matter of a shaky Saudi Arabia being custodian of the Hajj. There is the Kurdish question, and the Israeli one. Never mind where the fighting is, this war has spilled across many borders. It may, in fact, be the first true non-linear war.
(A recent Telegraph article, "The world's determination to defeat Isil is a myth", has a good rundown on what some of these endgames might be, but as the piece is now a week old and written before the Russians and Turks started yelling at each other, there's no chance it can be completely accurate.)
This may all sound rather complicated, but in fact we're just getting started. What, for instance, is the best way to smash ISIS completely? It has been suggested that a primary aim should be to destroy pipelines which supply not only oil but considerable riches to the ISIS monster, but this strategy addresses only a very small part of the overall problem. The great bulk of ISIS' wealth comes from the territory it controls. To take back that territory - and keep it - will require many more warm bodies in Syria and a shared ambition which simply doesn't exist at present.
If, however, you do think that more bombs, drones and boots on the ground is the best way forward, keep in mind what the shooting down of a Russian jet has done to an already fragile situation. Keep in mind, too, that it is only a few weeks ago that a hospital in Afghanistan was destroyed by the good guys, an all-too-familiar mishap in the fog of war. Can anyone honestly say that a repeat of these "tragic accidents" is unlikely, or that the fallout would be handled well?
Beyond these immediate problems are far greater ones. What happens if or when ISIS is defeated in Syria and Iraq? Who takes charge in these badly fractured nations? Are they likely to be partitioned as Berlin was many moons ago? Who gets to decide?
And isn't it a mistake to think of ISIS as an army anyway, when the reality is far more frightening? For this is not simply a war against men with guns. As recent attacks in Tunisia, Mali, France, Turkey, Nigeria and elsewhere have demonstrated, the soldiers of ISIS are also armed with an ideology that may be the most potent weapon of all.
Watch how the Syrian civil war became the mess it is today. Subscribe to our channel! http://goo.gl/0bsAjO After four-plus years of fighting, Syria's war has...
10 people like this
6 responses
@friendlyopinion (77)
• United States
29 Nov 15
More people really need to understand what you've so eloquently expressed here, and the excellent video you've linked. So many politicians are beating their chests and claiming that they have a "plan" when it's obvious they don't know what they're talking about. It is a frightening situation with no easy answers, being ideologically driven (you can't "bomb" an idea), and also a proxy war between other world powers.
I've been truly dismayed here in the states, at how simplistic and violent the political rhetoric became immediately after Paris. It was an awful lot like the mindless response to 9-11, by all the usual suspects. These are generally US political hawks for whom war is invariably profitable, (both financially and politically) calling for "boots on the ground" in Syria, while demonizing refugees who have risked everything to escape that hell-hole of conflict.
The fact that so many outside countries are involved as puppet masters explains why there is such a reluctance by other middle eastern countries to fight ISIS. How could they attempt to fight these groups when the retribution from bigger powers could be so severe?
And then back to ideology. Those who believe in and work toward an apocalyptic vision are difficult if not impossible to reason with. For those who live only to die or be martyred and go to some kind of "heaven" have no fear or hesitation to harm others - while those of us who love this earth and our families will be more reluctant to do so.
I have always believed that most human beings on this earth merely want a decent life. Most of us don't have a huge need to control others or accumulate tons of wealth. Instead, we want simply to be able to provide for our children, to feed and clothe our families,to have a home and clean water and adequate food, I have found, until now, that understanding these simple needs, and providing (or at least not hindering them) would eliminate many of humankind's conflicts. It has been my guiding philosophy that compassion and wisdom are the answer to many of our challenges as a global society. So I must admit that I am perplexed by those who seem immune to these ideals, and yearn for an apocalypse, instead of wanting simply a better life for their children.
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
29 Nov 15
@friendlyopinion - I really have nothing to add to this truly excellent response. At least, not yet :) This probably should be a discussion of its own - If you'd like to post it on your own page where more people are likely to see it, I'm happy to delete what you've written here so there's no duplication. In the meantime, I'll ruminate on what you've said, especially your point about outside puppet masters.
5 people like this
@JudyEv (339392)
• Rockingham, Australia
29 Nov 15
@friendlyopinion An intelligent and well-written response. I agree that most just want a better life for their children, regardless of their religion or lack of it. Why should this be so hard?
5 people like this
@friendlyopinion (77)
• United States
29 Nov 15
@troyburns Oh, no, let's leave it here. It actually belongs with your informative post. I expect your post will get more activity in the coming day or two. :)
4 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
29 Nov 15
@jstory07 - There is no dealing with such people. The only real hope may be in changing that perverse mindset, but it will take more than a single generation to achieve this.
6 people like this
@friendlyopinion (77)
• United States
29 Nov 15
Indeed, Judy. Did you see the video that @troyburns shared along with his original post? It's excellent, and really helps make clear the multitude of players involved and the complexity of the various nations and factions involved in the situation in Syria.
4 people like this
@friendlyopinion (77)
• United States
29 Nov 15
@troyburns I agree. If more education and opportunity were afforded to the upcoming generation, then they might not so easily fall prey to the fanaticism of ISIS. But even that is not certain, since it appears that some jihadists currently seem to have come from middle class backgrounds. It is pretty baffling.
6 people like this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
29 Nov 15
The truth of the matter is that the whole area was much more stable under dictators who were not big on human rights but also not overly devout in their religious beliefs. These are all factions of the same religion fighting each other. Even the ones who are fighting for "freedom" define it quite differently than we do in the West and we would be horrified by their idea of freedom. The best thing to do when sects fight sects is to let them. Then figure out how to deal with the winner. It's a bit late for that now, and WWIII is in the offing.
4 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
29 Nov 15
@Rollo1 - You're right, but they werem't our dictators so they had to go. The whole situation is now so impossibly complicated that I do fear that things will escalate further. I'm not sure this can be won by foreign intervention - the best it can be is controlled. I also have a suspicion that Saudi Arabia is a key player, and it worries me that the House of Saud is a little unsteady right now.
3 people like this
@ThankyouLord (698)
• St. Petersburg, Florida
17 Dec 15
Any area that is not big on human rights is also not that impressed with life, period. Anyone's life. Those countries that enslave, exploit, torture or starve generally do not value your life or my life. They value their own, above all, usually. For them, wasting people in wars, pillages and other forms of self-gain is all they want, and there is no changing them. You cannot make someone who does not care if they kill into someone that values others, short of a divine intervention, and I think we are running a little short of observable miracles in that department. Killers have no life, so nothing to lose. It is hard to see an effective method of dealing with that. I have heard people say, "education" is the answer, so potential Jihadists/Isis would pursue something else and would not be so taken in by killers' philosophies and parts of the Qu'ran.
@friendlyopinion (77)
• United States
30 Nov 15
@troyburns I agree. And it appears that no only has Saudi Arabia been providing money, but also amphetamines. A Saudi prince was recently caught smuggling 2 tons of Captigon to ISIS. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that amphetamines were used to fuel fighters.
4 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
17 Dec 15
@Sheilamarie78 - What do you find most worrying Sheila? I'm not too concerned about terrorism but I do worry about how this one conflict may remake our world every bit as much as the Second World War did.
1 person likes this
@Gr8bit (86)
• Alpaugh, California
4 Dec 15
There is only one true answer to it all and that is to back the Syrian government, then everyone is fighting the same war HOWEVER that is not going to happen because Syria has links with Iran and Russian, it is a powder keg waiting to blow. Another thing people forget is, if you remember about 2 years ago America tried to go to war with Syria over it's supposed use of chemical weapons against it's own people, do you remember that? Then it was found that it was the rebels that did it as a false flag to bring in the Americans, the American backed rebels? Americas war on terror is a joke, especially when they back people who use chemical weapons against their own people (terrorists). It is an American agenda from 1991 PNAC document to overthrow government in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Lebanon, Sudan, Somalia and finally Iran
3 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
16 Dec 15
@Auntylou - The problem we're all facing in the Middle East right now is that there may not be a "right" side. No-one wants Assad to stay in power but there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative. The West got things hopelessly wrong in Iraq and there's no confidence that this mess can end any better.
3 people like this
@Gr8bit (86)
• Alpaugh, California
5 Dec 15
@troyburns Russia will not agree with anything America puts forward until Obama has gone, even then it depends on whether America keeps trying to take over territories that Russia has strategic interest in, which they will. Part of the peace agreement between Russia(USSR at the time) NATO,and America after ww2 was that none of them will branch out the strategic positions they had at the time... NATO and America never stopped, Russia did... That's what honesty and integrity gets you :-)
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
16 Dec 15
@Auntylou - I think he's right to be concerned Janet. Who is your son - does he also write here?
2 people like this
@Auntylou (4264)
• Oxford, England
17 Dec 15
@troyburns No not so far, but he has been blogging and twittering and writing on Facebook about it and giving me updates and education!
2 people like this