Is it all about choices or is it about fate?

By Toto
Canada
December 7, 2015 10:59am CST
When we get down to the bottom of things, do you think that we have a choice or what will happen will happen or what we are are we are and there is nothing we can do about it? Should we do what we should do or do we do what we want to do or are we doing what we are programmed to do? How does one decide? What do you decide or is the decision made for you already? Do we have a choice? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 30:19 'choose life' Matthew 7:13 'go through the narrow gate'
7 people like this
7 responses
@just4him (317040)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
8 Dec 15
We have free will. That said, to answer your question, everything in our life is written down in God's book. However, we don't get to read it. If we read the book of our lives, then our free will wouldn't look like free will any longer. Psalm 139, Jeremiah 1:5, Epesians 1:4, Exodus 32:32-33 Do not confuse God's book with the Book of Life. There are two books.
3 people like this
• Canada
8 Dec 15
But are they written in advance or are they written as they happen?
3 people like this
@ataboy (737)
• United States
8 Dec 15
I have a question, @just4him. If we were made privy to this information (the book of our life, so to speak) and free-will wouldn't "look like" free-will anymore (assumedly because we know the outcome(s), then what would happen? Would we live our life under the control of what we saw, unable to divert our 'path', entirely mechanical as if by some unseen force? (Yes, I'm entirely serious about asking what you think. I'm quite a curious little cat!)
3 people like this
@ataboy (737)
• United States
8 Dec 15
@totobasso - Perhaps they have already happened, just not from our perspective of the present! So both of your answers could be equally true!
2 people like this
@Namelesss (3365)
• United States
9 Dec 15
We always have a choice. Fortunately or unfortunately that choice was made before we got here. Course that is just my thoughts on the subject.
2 people like this
• Canada
9 Dec 15
For the sake of the discussion, I believe that there are many areas where we do have a choice but not always. Examples: We have no choice then to accept that a day has 24 hours or when we die we have no choice but to wait and see what happens.
2 people like this
@salonga (27775)
• Philippines
10 Dec 15
God gave us the freewill to choose. This world is a series of choices and whatever happens to our life depends on what choices we make.
1 person likes this
• Canada
14 Dec 15
Yes, it is mostly about choices but the Bible also speaks about predestination and about God foreseeing some events way in advance. So, it does seem that some events were foreseen which I find very interesting. God is simply amazing and we keep learning. .
@jstory07 (139508)
• Roseburg, Oregon
7 Dec 15
I like to think it over and decide what is best for me and my family.
2 people like this
• Canada
8 Dec 15
Yes, investigate, meditate and then decide and choose.
2 people like this
@Freelanzer (10743)
• Canada
8 Dec 15
Even though some things are outside our control, I do think we have a choice in most of the things in our life
2 people like this
• Canada
8 Dec 15
I also think that we have the freedom to choose on the most important tings in life. There are things that happen where we have little choice but that is not because it was all written beforehand but because of events that we cannot control.
1 person likes this
@ataboy (737)
• United States
8 Dec 15
We have very different views/beliefs, @totobasso. But no matter, I have my opinions and you, yours. I completely respect your beliefs and have no interest in changing them in any way. Nothing prohibits me from considering things from a more religious point-of-view, even if I presently don't have what you would consider an affiliation with any type of religion. I neither fear nor fight the interesting possibilities that I admit I may be ignorant towards, or exploring the possibilities. I attended Catholic school for nine, count them NINE years! At the moment, I view the world through "agnostic scientific" tinted goggles, but I also know how little faith I have in much of modern scientific theory as well. If there is a God I don't believe I would find a deity from which the image of man was created per se. I tend to think of God as the beautiful harmony between elements of nature. The precise relationship that allows atoms to form is such a wonderful, magnificent concept to understand in a seeming never-ending degree of depth but in perfect synchronization with every other element of the universe we occupy, and are actually a small portion of in every way imaginable! There I could see God. I believe that it has been written that God has given us free-will, according to Christianity thus one would assume that we have full control of our own (and indirectly other's) fate - which kind of make's it not "fate" if it's changeable, right?! But God CAN change things and according to scripture, HAS intervened when he felt it was relevant. So he also can change our outcome, (a.k.a. our fate!) We are also told that God knows how everything will turn out, or our individual and cumulative fates. This seems logically paradoxical...How could we have free-will (mostly), yet God knows our fate and every decision before we even make them? Is free-will an illusion? That would imply that determinism prevails. Hmmm.... Sure, one could simply say God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient per the Holy Bible, so he can do whatever he choses and however he so chooses to do it, anywhere he likes! But I like to look at it from a scientific perspective. Yes, that's right, I'm going to use science to explain how a supernatural God could make such seemingly incompatible statements! Maybe I can manage to become ostracized from both the religious and scientific communities in one single reply! It's quite simple really, though I doubt it's as easy to convey from my mind to another's. The universe has three-dimensions of space and one of time (cumulatively referred to as space-time) If God created the universe, then he clearly exists outside of the universe, as well as it's fundamental constituents....space and time. So if space and time are properties of the universe, then "before" it was created there was neither space nor time (with an emphasis on the latter.) Ergo the universe, be it a creation of God or not, must have always existed, since always and related words are measurements of TIME! And it always will. From the vantage point of God, there is technically "time" in our universe, but not in the familiar form that involves "motion". It effectively could be called static or motionless, as if time were but another spatial-dimension, yet all space and all time are visible from that perspective simultaneously. Ergo God can quite easily see all. Furthermore, whatever completely free-will decisions that we decide to make are just that, free-will decisions, BUT since God exists outside of the universe, and therefore time, he can easily see what all of our free-will decisions are (or from our perspective - were, are and will one day be - but past, present and future are only meaningful when compared relative to a particular point in....TIME!) Therefore we freely can make choices, yet God can easily see what choice that we "will be making" or technically "already have made" from his point of view! So yes, one doesn't have to believe in something to show that it scientifically makes sense or is at least feasible. They only need to overcome their stubborn reluctance to demonstrate that some things can be theoretically shown to be logically valid even if they disagree with them. So from that perspective, yes the existence of "fate" is pretty much the most reasonable conclusion that one could arrive at. But you also have and will have chosen you're fate under your own fully conscious volition! I have a little bit more complex of a viewpoint, myself, which boils down to a pretty similar idea, it simply does not involve the God portion of the explanation. Suffice it to say, it ultimately ends up with the same conclusion...just nobody that is "up there" or whatever, that sees and knows the ultimate outcome(s)....(Necessarily?!)
1 person likes this
• Canada
8 Dec 15
Wow, you are not far from the truth! But let us keep in mind that what we know is little, compared to what e don't know. So let's stay humble and we will go far.
2 people like this
@ataboy (737)
• United States
9 Dec 15
Thank you, @totobasso, but I believe that I have kept that in mind, by making such statements as "I admit I may be ignorant", or the final word in my reply "(Necessarily?!)", and in my careful wording in such statements as "...I'm going to use science to explain how a supernatural God could make such seemingly incompatible statements!" Explaining how something could be is quite different than proving how something is, and the two should not be confused with one another. My humble nature is as profound as the day is long, IMHO. I sincerely doubt you will find many people, if any, even if you scour the massive World Wide Web that will scientifically try to explain the concept of a God that they do not, themselves, believe exists. Not using actual science...maybe some type of metascience. I could similarly look at you're comment and ask how that you know that I'm not far from the truth, since this type of comparison implies that you must know the truth! That said, I sincerely doubt that you meant what I've suggested that can be inferred from your comment! I just wanted you to see that it's easier than it may seem to write a flawless response/comment! Especially so when you're rying to merge two fields that are probably forever locked in a stalemate: science and religion. Hard to disprove a feeling, just as it is to logically reason with someone that's experienced something so life-altering! Do you know what I mean?
1 person likes this
@ataboy (737)
• United States
9 Dec 15
Yeah, @enlightenedpsych2, I guess it was a bit longer then I had expected it to be when I began, but I have a tendency to just start writing or talking and forget that there is still a world around me sometimes! And if I learned anything important from Catholic school it's that Catholic school is not pleasant! I was actually quite the clever, mischievous little boy, but the way I saw it, they had it coming. Although I doubt it would have changed much if they didn't.... I honestly can't even mention some of the things I got away with (and some that I didn't) It's literally book material....literally! I'll say this, detention slips were feared by everyone....30 minutes after school in silence (yeah right!). But it turns out that since it' the teachers that have to "guard" you the whole time, and two detentions make an hour, and so on...all of my teachers refused the principal's (also a nun) mandate to watch me for four and a half hours after school! Thought I had figured out the perfect way to get out of or space out my detentions! ah ha! But it turns out that the principle was oh too happy to have me sit in front of her desk as she worked for 4.5 hours, 2-3 feet in front of me, face-to-face! It was far from fun to say the least! But teachers learn quite well, and they were hesitant to give me a detention slip from that day forward. So it did work out to my benefit in the longrun! What were the pink slips for...(to be continued)
1 person likes this
@DaintyD (1101)
30 Mar 16
Thankyou for your post, I libe this topic and could talk about it for hours. I guess I think paths are lead out for us, but we can choose what path we take if that makes any sence. So I could have a good path and a bad path - but only I can choose weather to work toward the good path we to settle for less.