Samaritan vocalization of Vav / myLot

Canada

August 17, 2016 8:11pm CST

This stems from a conversation earlier today, the historical vocalization of the Hebrew letter Vav (or Waw) came up. As usual an oversimplified statement was made "in Biblical Hebrew the Vav is a w"-actually, there is some contradiction in ancient transliterations regarding this...but there is an element which people often, well, are unaware of. To many students and professors, the question either comes down to is it a V or W...as I said a few times, this neglects the fact that it is sometimes neither, and in some cases needs to be understood as an actual vowel, either o or u...but that aside, there is this other aspect which needs to be considered-to Samaritans, it is neither V nor W, but rather a B. Some would call this a corruption of vocalization...but the reality is, that can't actually be stated because 1. would need an ancient frame of reference from which to compare in order to say "it is corrupted"...since there is disagreement regarding it being V or W as a consonant, one could ask from which it is a corruption? What we are really talking about here, is popularity of vocalization-just because more ppl say it one way, does not mean that this reflects historical truth. That is interpretation, and in subjects of ancient vocalization, this can possibly lead someone down the wrong road. The answer which is true, but many do not feel comfortable with is...all 3 reflect ancient and historical pronunciations. Regarding the "original" original...we just don't know. But knowing that we don't know, might in fact be half the battle and is not what I would call a bad thing. The truth is that much of life, even things that we assume every day as true...may infact actually be wrong.

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5 responses

peavey

@peavey (16936)

• United States

18 Aug 16

I am sure that studying an ancient language can bring up some interesting questions. (I have tried to learn Hebrew but still have difficulty with it.) I have discovered things in the British language history, which is not "British" as such, but Norse/Celtic/Latin/Germanic, etc. It has all sorts of twists and turns, then is startlingly sensible. For instance, "Normandy" is basically the land of the north man. Nor(th)man with the suffix of "dy" which is a term of ownership of sorts. What I'm trying to say is that the evolution of a language can lead us in a maze where we come out unexpectedly and suddenly.Possibly the "b" sound you mentioned is something like that? Vav seems to take the place of W when it's compared to the English alphabet, but it evolved without that comparison, so it's only a sound, like Nor'man is the sound of someone saying "north man." I am probably not making sense, but I tried.

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Canadian Archer

@HebrewGreekStudies (1646)

• Canada

18 Aug 16

You made perfect sense, and I suspect that is correct-the reality with Hebrew, is that Hebrew today, we are all coming at from different angles, and those angles begin with languages other then Hebrew, even as the very concept of speaking Hebrew as a modern language is a fairly modern concept (and at the beginning, Ben Yehudah was ridiculed for the idea). Like, the groups of people which became the Samaritans, were for the most part not native speakers, but were rather relocated in their own exile (if we believe the Biblical accounts-the Samaritans themselves, however disagree with this and claim to be the true Israelites, even having to this day the true Aaronic High Priest)-but different groups say Ashkenazim, Sfardim, languages where they were did influence their vocalization...and even when the attempts to revive spoken Hebrew began, Ben Yehudah had noted that even in his day the pronunciation of Hebrew had begun to change and saw influence, and that was in a period less then 50 years. Re. B and V, the sounds are actually quite close together, and hence the letter Bet, at times is closer to B in English, and at times the softer sound of V-and among some Jews, it is simply a B.

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peavey

@peavey (16936)

• United States

19 Aug 16

@HebrewGreekStudies I'm glad you understood what I meant. I didn't feel as if I were explaining it very well. I think every language undergoes an evolution of sorts, and is mixed with other languages and regions, so that not only do other words intrude, phrases and colloquialisms that are peculiar to a group of people are inserted so that it's hard for even original native speakers to understand. Over time, this is multiplied many times! I have listened closely to the different sounds of Vav and Bet and, while I can hear them (sometimes) I can't create the exact sound that I hear. I know many Jews are not "native" speakers of Hebrew, so they had to learn it. I suppose that's what causes the confusion. That just brings us back to the spoken word, which is not always the same as the written word! There now, I've gone in a complete circle.

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Wendy789

@Drosophila (16571)

• Ireland

20 Aug 16

@peavey EN as a language has changed so much, that I recently listened to the Old EN version of "The Lord's Prayer" and I had no idea of a single word.

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