Do we really need to be forgiven????
By bird123
@bird123 (10643)
United States
August 19, 2017 12:18pm CST
A Religious friend recited what his religion was teaching him. He said Sin is bad. He said we are all Sinners. Finally, He said we all need to be forgiven by God for our Sins.
OK. Let's think about this for a while. God creates us. God is supposed to be Perfect. How could God create such a flaw in everyone that would make everyone Sinners? Further, since the flaw is God's mistake, why does one need God to forgive us?
Perhaps Religion has it all wrong. Let's assume God is smart enough not to make any mistakes. With that in mind, could Sin be a Good thing?
As I see it, God has not made a mistake. Mankind simply does not Understand what is actually going on. People assume God created us then we screwed it all up. In reality, God is not through creating each of us to our true Perfection. We are living the creation process toward perfection.
Ego gets in the way of so much learning yet Ego is an important part sentience. Since each are individuals with Ego, you can not just tell someone how they should act and expect everyone to follow. Funny how so many Religions think everyone should follow.
In order for one to make perfect choices, one must fully Understand all sides. How can one understand all sides if the choices are limited to one side? It won't happen. With the Ego involved, the choices must be Free Choices. If your choices are not free choices, won't you make the opposite choice as soon as you do get a free choice just to discover what you could not have?
This brings us to Reality as I see it on the road to our perfection. Sin is a necessity for learning. We are living in a multilevel classroom free to choose what we do not understand. In this time-based causal universe we learn through our parameters, those we interact with and the results of our choices. God simply has to return our actions and choices back to us so that we might understand what our choices really mean. In time, through many lifetimes, we Choose our way to perfection. When one truly understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choice.
In a multilevel classroom, students are learning many different things. Often we see others learning lessons we have already learned. Does one Hate, value Blame, want to Condemn and Punish, want revenge and pay back,or value others as a lower life form when we see this? Those are hard lesson one can choose for themselves regardless of how appetizing it can be served up from those who present them as an image of goodness. As I see it, the only Real choice is to recognize we are all on the journey to perfection and what matters most is that no one misses the opportunity to Learn. Each can be a Part of the Real Solution. Point them in the right direction.
As I see it, we are all being taught to Love Unconditionally. After all, that is what everyone wants to return. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. It can not be an easy thing for God either especially when what sometimes can be the best thing is a hard painful lesson. Still, won't the Results be Glorious at the end of the long road?
Forgiveness?? It has never been needed.
What do you think?
3 people like this
2 responses
@dlr297 (5409)
• United States
21 Aug 17
first God is perfect in every way.....Yes God created us all.....their is no flaw in what he is doing..He gave us all free will to choose....We can choose Him, and follow him, or we can choose not to follow him.....
Yes we are all sinners...not one of us is perfect..God forgives to show his mercy, and his Goodness...
God teaches us forgiveness because it heals..God forgives us, we forgive others, and we can also forgive ourselves...It is a Lesson that we all need to learn to help make the world a better place....God has no flaws, this is his creation, and his rules...(But he gave us the choice to follow them or not)
Sin or evil, is never a good thing....Nothing good ever comes from it...It is always bad.....But God did tell us that one of the things satan would do is turn what is good to evil, and what is evil to good....and that is exactly what you are trying to do...Your own words ( could Sin be a Good thing?) and if you look around that is exactly what has been happening....God says murder is wrong, a sin....But it is being made good with abortion,....Homosexuality is a sin in Gods eyes, but it is now being made to look normal and a good thing....No matter what man says these things will never be good in Gods eyes....and he is the judge.....
Nobody will ever reach total perfection..Because we are not God, and never will be...It is all about making one choice..it is the same choice for all of us......Either choose God or not.....Nothing else we ever do in this world will ever matter.....
God is the one that wants us to follow him....to choose him with our free will....
Our choices are not limited to one side good and evil are the two sides to choose from....If it was all one sided their would be no free will their would be no choice....God gave us all the information we need to make the right choice, he covers everything, He tells us very simply, easy to understand...what is right what is wrong....and what will happen with the choices we make . and he gives us free will to make our own choices...
God spelled everything out..why would he have to return anything to us....Somebody that is a murder will keep murdering until he is caught and and locked away so he can not hurt anyone again, or when he finds Gods forgiveness and is delivered from his Sin....A thief will keep stealing as long as he gets away with it...what they learn to get better and better at it....They will stop when they turn to God and get delivered from their sin....God will take the desire away.....
When you Love someone unconditionally. that does not mean that you have to like or accept everything that they do...If someone you love lies to you....You do not lit them continue doing it....they have to have consequences for their actions..You can Love them but still Hate what they do...You can Love them and still punish them for their wrong doing....You can put blame on their wrong choice, and still Love them....
If someone murders the best thing for that person is to put him away so he can not hurt anyone again....What do you think that to love a murder you just continue to let him behave in that way....or do you do something about it...
2 people like this
@dlr297 (5409)
• United States
22 Aug 17
@bird123 it is a shame that your friend will never have the chance for more time with his family and friends, The murder may get help or he may go on and murder more people....
You explained your views on abortion, and you are leaving Gods views out of the equation....It is not about what you think that matters but what God says is right...
As for homosexuality God says it is a sin....Everyone sins in one way or another...we were all born that way..I am no better or worst than they are...and yes God loves them the same as he loves all of us...The thing is they have the same choice that the rest of us do and that is to repent, and turn from their sin..They choose to make excuses for their sin and they choose to live with it.... Which they have the right to do....I know many Homosexual people and i have also seen some of them change when they turn to God, they get delivered from their sin, and go on in normal, natural relationships...with out the unnatural, urges...
When did i ever say people can not get better....You are just putting your own views into my mouth trying to twist things like you always do.....with God all things are possible, forgiveness is the start of the healing process... God has given us all the answers on how to make things better, it is just that not many are listing, and others do not care...The only thing that i hate is Sin, I do not hate anyone...only the actions that they do that is wrong....You have to separate the two...are you saying that you did not hate that your friend was murdered..The act that was committed....by your response to it saying that the young man should get help shows that you can still show love and compassion for him as a person...He needs to face the consequences of his actions....Hopefully find God, be forgiven, and forgive his self for what he did...and start the healing process....
the true underlying causes of crime is evil....and it will continue and get worst until people start to turn back to God....God told us this and he gave us very clear and simple ways to deal with it..God gave us all the answers.....
God does not fry anyone..He will fix things if you BELIEVE, pray, repent, and turn from sin...Very easy, very simple....God does not hate, punish, condemn, blame, or intimidate anyone....He gave all of us FREE WILL to choose what we want....He gave us all the same choice to make...God will continue to love each of us no matter what choice we make...He will never change our choices into what he wants, it is up to each of us to choose him over evil....
You want things to be as you think they should be.Not the way God says they are..You do not like consequences for ones actions...
Yes i will keep on the narrow path..Because the wide one only leads to destruction...
2 people like this
@dlr297 (5409)
• United States
23 Aug 17
@bird123 Yes Believing is the way....God does not fry anyone....All you are doing is twisting the truth to fit what you want....
Yes i will stay narrow....and when you get done looking for the answer you will discover that the underlining problem is evil and always has been, and their is only one way to fix it...only one way to beat it..God did not make things difficult, or hard to understand...He gave us all the answers...
Yes i hate evil....How many homosexual people have i helped with my love for them...I do not condemn anyone, and i do not judge anyone....I love them enough to tell them the truth of Gods word, That God loves them, that God will deliver them from their sin....You keep saying unconditional Love means doing what is best for them and that is what i do, i do not wish to see anyone go to hell, If i hated them i would not say anything just let them continue with what they are doing, just ignore them....They have a choice they do not have to keep living with their Sin...
God sent all of us rules, laws, and his word....So sorry that you can not understand any of it...may be someday you will learn this lesson...keep searching you just might find it....Open your heart and come out of the darkness that you are in....
The story of your friend.....First if the murder had God in him he would not have committed the crime...Second if your friend knew the power of Jesus Christ he could have stopped it....Their is power in the name, great power....
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
22 Aug 17
Your view is so narrow. You might not see it but goodness exists in some form when bad things happen. I have a friend who was murdered. He was a very old man in bad health. He was murdered by a young man with many many problems. Perhaps now the young man might get help or at least prevent someone else from getting killed.
Abortion. I am for being responsible for one's actions so I am not for abortion. I have explained to you in the past why it is not murder. China had mass starvation year after year because too many children were being born that they were unable to feed. Abortion stopped the mass starvation. In fact, the standard of living in China is so much better now because of their efforts.
Homosexuality. I have found no one who said they chose who they were attracted to. So why would God make people homosexual? Perhaps to bring the problems people have about hate, judging and condemning to the surface so they can be dealt with. Perhaps, your interaction with them might convince you, as people, they are as good and as worthy of God's love as you.
Life is about learning and growing. People do learn. People do get better. Is there so much hate in your heart that you refuse to think people who make mistakes can't get better?
Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. Perhaps instead of locking away criminals then throwing away the key, society works on discoverying the true underlying causes of crime then work at Solving the problem. Until one Solves the Real problem, it will return until the answer is Discovered.
Frying the kids does not fix the kids. God is not what religion is telling people. God is at a Higher Level. God Loves Unconditionally. Fixing the kids is more important than, Blaming, Condemning, Punishing, Hating, Coercing or Intimidating.
Widen the view. Much more exists than the box of Beliefs.
2 people like this
@Shiva49 (26680)
• Singapore
20 Aug 17
Our outlook depends on our culture also. For eg., I have been brought up a vegetarian and I may feel it is a sin to kill and eat other species. But that does not hold water with most others.
I try to be a co-creator in my thoughts and actions and let others live and enjoy more than me. I give the benefit of doubt to others and never judge them.
We need to also enjoy the spread here and god is ever loving, forgiving, following his own teaching. As long as we do our best I feel we should be alright.
I do not take life seriously but want to leave with a life well lived - let society benefit more from my stint here - siva
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
20 Aug 17
So often Religion teaches people they need to be forgiven by God or they have done God wrong somehow or even they are in trouble with God. None of that has ever been the case. God loves all His children Unconditionally. That means nothing you can do will keep God from loving you.
One is their own worst problem or enemy. We must all strive to THINK before we act. Better choices will always bring Better results. We will Learn.
Hell does not exist except in the eyes of mankind. On the other hand, some choose some very hard lessons for themselves which could be described as Hell. Those growing pains will pass once one acquires the knowledge and understanding.
2 people like this
@Shiva49 (26680)
• Singapore
21 Aug 17
@bird123 Seeking forgiveness from god and belief in him are mostly based on Christianity.
Hinduism and Buddhism do not emphasise these.
I can be a Hindu without even going to temple - it is more of a way of life based on karma.
I feel the lightness of being as I try to live a life to benefit others more than with selfish interests. That keeps me away from harm. I accept life can test us and we should never run away from reality.
I don't like compulsion, form over substance, not ritualistic.
God wants us to lead the life of our choice and then it is up to us. I believe heaven and hell are not physical places - it is more of realizing it with our actions even right here.
Buddhism teaches never to believe and feel smug about it - it is the spirit of inquiry and living our lives that matter; find out what life is ourselves - siva
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