My thoughts on "Me Too"
By Faye
@FayeHazel (40243)
United States
December 12, 2017 3:32pm CST
When women typing "Me too" on social media as a show of solidarity became a trend, I made a post saying that it didn't apply to me, but I felt for those that it did.
At first, I thought that "Me too" was pertaining to rape and it's victims.
No.
It's harassment in general. One of my friend's definitions is "anything that made you feel uncomfortable".
In that case. Yes. Me too. Many instances.
Some excusable. Unwanted attention is going to happen in this world. It's how the one giving the attention reacts when told to stop, or told no.
Some inexcusable. Like the 40-something year old man who saw fit to ask my dad to save me for him when I was 14. He was willing to wait 2 years in order to marry me at 16. The real clicher? He was already married but thought I would make a splendid concubine/2nd wife.
Some things were my fault. I've done things (not always of a sexual nature) that I didn't want to because I didn't feel like I was allowed to say no. This is not the fault of the person acting on me - rather this is the fault of society and not being taught that it is alright to say no.
But some things were their fault too -- like the countless men who think "negging" me is going to get them - anywhere at all. It's a low thing to do.
"Negging" for those who don't know... is when a want to be Don Juan approaches a woman and runs her down. Something like "Hey, I like you - but you sure are unattractive. A lot of men wouldn't even talk to you, but I like your personality. Would you want to come to my place later?"
-- so the thought is that by running her down, and then stating what a generous person they are for mearly paying attention ... that the women will rush to their hotel room, home, etc - anxious to do whatever act or acts he may desire because, after all, she is lucky to have his attentions.
I've had variations of that tried on me numerous times. And all it gets them is told to shove off.
Now, of course this isn't the same as a serious offense as rape. But we need to raise 1) - Men who don't think that cruel mind games are a good way to get what they want and 2) Women who are strong enough to say no and to tell these jerks off.
And what of the string of so many celebrity males who are getting called out for sexual harassment.
Louis CK
Mario Batali
Matt Lauer
Kevin Spacey
Garrison Keillor
to name a few.
I don't know all of the details concerning what these men did. But I think there is a fine line and that we may be over re-acting.
What is important to me is - How did they re-act to being told "no"? Did they stop or continue the behavior? Did they threaten the person with job, position or power?
Of course I am happy that these perverts are being called out for their wrong actions, but I fear that these allegations may be going a bit too far, too.
Like Garrison Keillor. I guess he patted a woman on the back. He said that her shirt was unbuttoned and his hand slide down her back. (I'm still trying to sort out the physics of how that happens, but...) she jumped back, he apologized and she remained friendly with him until just now. Of course that's his side of the story, maybe her's is different -- but is it going a bit too far? I think so. If that's how it happened - did he deserve to loose his job over it? I don't think so.
I also wonder what this will mean for flirting and dating. Of course no one should be touched in a way that they don't want - people should stop when told no - totally yes. But what about casual hugs, pats on the back, handshakes? Will these things go the way of the dinosaur? I've always needed men to be rather direct before I figure out that they like me. Will they be too scared to be direct now?
What do you make of it?
Link to Garrison Keillor article :
Garrison Keillor, the former host of A Prairie Home Companion, was fired on Wednesday by the Minnesota Public Radio after it received an allegation of inappropriate behavior against the radio personality.
18 people like this
15 responses
@JudyEv (342145)
• Rockingham, Australia
12 Dec 17
I agree totally but you've put it way better than I could have. It IS getting out of hand. I'm sure with some men it's just flirting and, as you say, it's what happens next that is the crucial thing. And true about society not teaching women that it's okay to say no. Some women and girls can be very provocative too but then cry 'foul'. Some just want their five seconds of fame I guess and some are out for revenge.
5 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
Thanks! :-) Yes, I do fear it is going too far -- people can ask (even provocative stuff) but it's how they handle a "no" that is important.
1 person likes this
@BelleStarr (61101)
• United States
12 Dec 17
I think in some cases people deserve to be fired and in other's I think that was too drastic but when someone waits years to air their complaints it makes me a little suspect. Yes, it happened to me, am I going to air that dirty laundry now no. Did I bury it, no I told the people off at the time it happened in no uncertain terms. In the case of Al Franken, things he did before he became a politician while incorrect should not be cause for dismissal now, only things he did since he was elected should be counted. in my opinion. Honestly, do any of us want our behavior for the last 35 years scrutinized? You can not judge what is acceptable today compared to 35 years ago. Times have changed, acceptable behavior has changed.
4 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I agree and that is another good point. More things were accepted back some time ago -- were those things right? no. But we can't fairly take actions from the past and hold them up to the more modern measuring stick of appropriate.
I am happy you said something, and sorry for what you had to go through
1 person likes this
@sallypup (61640)
• Centralia, Washington
12 Dec 17
I agree with Corbin5. I am horrified and deeply upset about Garrison. He is a Mark Twain figure in the United States. He brought literature and life to the U S. I wish I could get the entire story on what happened with Garrison. That one makes zero sense to me. And the president should not be above the moral code or the law. Something big needs done there. Yesterday.
3 people like this
@sallypup (61640)
• Centralia, Washington
13 Dec 17
@FayeHazel Exactly what I want to know. What happened? Why won't she speak?
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
@sallypup I know, a big mystery there.... she said enough to get him into hot water apparently....
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I mean, his "Prairie Home Companion" show was so down to earth and innocent. I think that if we are going to hear about how he was fired, then we should hear her side of the story. His employer obviously felt strongly enough to end his career over it... so what happened?
1 person likes this
@Courtlynn (67080)
• United States
12 Dec 17
I totally agree with you.
And I really hope dating and flirting doesn't change to where you never know when someone is actually into you or not, because if so, then whats the point of trying anymore?
3 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
Ah yes. For the people like me, who basically need a guy to yell from the rooftops his intent -- this is going to be bad. :-(
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
@Courtlynn Ah, I know what you mean
1 person likes this
@teamfreak16 (43418)
• Denver, Colorado
13 Dec 17
I have a feeling this isn't going away anytime soon.
3 people like this
@teamfreak16 (43418)
• Denver, Colorado
13 Dec 17
@FayeHazel - Not to mention politics.
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
@teamfreak16 Oh excellent point there too
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I wonder who else in Hollywood is nervous right now?
1 person likes this
@misunderstood_zombie (8142)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I agree with everything you wrote and wrote so well. I've heard of negging, and it must have an effect on some women which is sad. I wish women knew they didn't absolutely need a man to be happy, but I still know so many women like this and the negging might work on them.
Really good post!
3 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
Thanks! I felt compelled to write about it.
It is sort of sad on all fronts, the whole negging thing -- the men who obviously feel like the only way they can be with a women is by ruining her self image (first step in an abusive relationship) and for the women who fall for it
1 person likes this
@misunderstood_zombie (8142)
• United States
13 Dec 17
@FayeHazel You're right, it's sad for everyone involved.
1 person likes this
@shaggin (72262)
• United States
12 Dec 17
Oh my gosh I have never heard of negging and think that is rotten someone would do that to someone else. I also have done things I didn’t want to do because I was pestered and have a hard time saying no. People need need to learn to accept no as an answer too!
2 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
Agree totally! People need to be raised that saying no is ok -- (and I'm sorry that you know the struggle too, it is real.) And people need to be trained that hearing no is ok and not to be a pest after that
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
@shaggin Oh that is so sad. I agree. It's a shame when simple kindness get blown out of proportion.
It's like we have this new found power of saying no rightfully and exposing those things that happened - but it goes too far, when certain people feel like turning in people for non crimes
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (69033)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I think we as women need to stop sending mixed signals. We go gaa-gaa over things like 50 Shades of Grey and give our favorite rockers passes for all of the 13-year-old groupies they did, then say there's something terrible about some guy quoting 50 Shades of Grey at work. One of the women who accused Harvey Weinstein signed a petition of support for a pardon for convicted rapist Roman Polanski. We demand that Gary Glitter songs be banned but still buy Don Henley albums. You look at some of the sexist lyrics in songs like "Country Girl (Shake It For Me)," then look at the demographics that say the majority of fans of that song are women, and then you wonder why men don't know what the hell is going on.
2 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
Hm. That is an interesting concept as well.
As women I think a lot of us *want* to be desired or feel desirable. If a woman goes out in scant clothing - then in my opinion she shouldn't be surprised if people stare or if there are flirtations made. However it doesn't give people permission to touch her or anything of that nature. Of course, that's just my feeling on the subject.
"50 Shades" yeah I know. That was weird. I read all 3 , I admit. That was an abusive relationship. If Christian Grey character weren't good looking and rich it would have been a tale of abuse.
I didn't know anything about Gary Glitter.
1 person likes this
@xander6464 (44421)
• Wapello, Iowa
14 Oct 18
But what about casual hugs, pats on the back, handshakes? Will these things go the way of the dinosaur? -----I hope they don't go away. But then again, if this flips things over and men will become nonaggressive and women will do all the aggressing. I would like that. And if it eliminates the unwanted advances women have to go through, it's a win-win for everyone. But mostly for me and that's the part I like the best.
1 person likes this
@xander6464 (44421)
• Wapello, Iowa
15 Oct 18
@FayeHazel I have the same problem. I have done those things but not often and it always feels uncomfortable to me.
I have the same feelings but deep down, I know these dry spells don't last forever. And even if it does last forever, it's still better than being in a bad relationship. At least that's the way I see it. I know some people who are profoundly unhappy just because they are terrified of being alone and I find that prospect even worse.
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Oct 18
Me too, I hope they don't go away, either. I love that type of thing, but I don't feel confident enough to do it to others. I feel like they would slap me away.
Ugh, women as aggressors? Not a bad thought on it's own. though this women just isn't wired that way. I would probably never date again. But then, I haven't had a date in 5 years now, so it's probably about true anyway.
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
15 Oct 18
@xander6464 Oh I so agree with you. I know many examples where people are just miserable because they are paired off with the wrong person.... it's very scary. Like you, I would rather just be single. It's actually not that bad. :-) I enjoy it - well - most of the time.... there are times, the longer I go - that I am reminded that it is nice to feel attractive to someone, special to someone.... but that would have to be the right person, or else it won't be worth the drama. :-)
1 person likes this
@bluesa (15022)
• Johannesburg, South Africa
13 Dec 17
Never heard of "negging" but if a guy tried that with me, I would tell him to f, uh, go fly! When I was young, a young guy tried to not understand the word no, I got away before any real harm, that night his parents got a visit from the police. All this happening now is going to change many things between men and women.
2 people like this
@bluesa (15022)
• Johannesburg, South Africa
14 Dec 17
@FayeHazel , it would bother me too because it is extremely rude and demeaning. :/
Thanks, it is okay, at least I got away and it taught me to never just trust someone.
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
@bluesa It is sad that we live in a world where we can't just trust people, but unfortunately it is so.
1 person likes this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
I'm happy you've not had it happen. I wish I could say it doesn't bother me, but when it happens a lot it sort of gets to me, still. :/
I am so happy you got away from that individual AND that the police got involved. That must have been scary. Sorry to hear it.
1 person likes this
@JamesHxstatic (29413)
• Eugene, Oregon
14 Dec 17
Interesting point of view here. I wrote about this subject as well, having lived through the 1960s and witnessing lots of boorish behavior by men (probably committing some myself as well). I will say that I don't think things have gone too far.
3 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
I'll have to go have a look.
Interesting outlook, -- times were different then, I cannot even imagine. A major upheaval from (what seems like it was) the more conservative 1950s , to the wild and free 1960s - social change and protesting and , ooo counter culture!
@just4him (317238)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
14 Dec 17
I agree with you. Inappropriate behavior in both men and women is wrong. However, what constitutes inappropriate behavior? Some of those actions you mentioned - hugs, a pat - in my opinion are not inappropriate, just as you stated. It's when those hugs and pats become something more than innocent, that you need to stand your ground and say 'no'.
1 person likes this
@just4him (317238)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
14 Dec 17
@FayeHazel True. First, I consider the person, if they're harmless, no problem.
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
14 Dec 17
Well put @just4him -- no one should feel like they need to put up with things in order to keep a job.... however what is inappropriate ? Hugs, handshakes, back pat... are not inappropriate but some people may not be comfortable - so it's for them to speak out and say no thanks. Even things like asking someone on a date, mildly dirty jokes, looking/staring .... well... may not be the most professional behavior but are in my mind excusable as long as the person stops when told "no"..... but these are far different from being made to do something, behaviors continuing beyond saying "no....
1 person likes this
@shivamani10 (11035)
• Hyderabad, India
13 Dec 17
What all I realized now is that the society is not so bad outside India as I thought of. There is even a better society prevailing when we go out. Hence, one should make tour and travel a lot to know about the various societies in different countries and understand their culture. Even in the so called advanced culture it is only the discipline that still holds a good position to think about. There is a good and bad society everywhere in all countries.
3 people like this
@FayeHazel (40243)
• United States
13 Dec 17
You're right. There are good and bad elements in each society, none being completely one way or the other.
@fishtiger58 (29820)
• Momence, Illinois
13 Dec 17
If you are not my husband, mate, spouse, or partner you have no right to touch me for any reason, period.
2 people like this