Its about wages, yours mine and theirs
By vanny
@vandana7 (100282)
India
June 22, 2024 6:23am CST
So this morning I read about Hindujas being convicted for paying less to their staff.
In the UK, they were paying low wages, lower than the minimum wages.
I was reminded of Khobragade case.
My views remain the same.
I can buy a dozen eggs for 80 INR. Which is about 1.1 dollar. Here, the rents are lower too, kinda 27000 INR per month for 3 Bedroom apartment of 1250 sft. About 321.5 USD per month.
Now, when I take a person abroad, I do all the needful from my pocket. Which means air fare, passport preparation, required visa etc. All that costs money.
Left in the country, the person would be extremely lucky to get monthly income of about 300 to 400 USD per month and even so live in smaller and less convenient environment.
When the person is taken abroad, and their passports are taken, it is often not to exploit them, but to spare self from headache likely on losing passport. Out here, there are people who can be paid to do those jobs. In countries like the UK and the US, it is a headache and expensive too.
Solution would be to force the depositing of passports with some government sponsored lockers and documentation agency so that the passports can be retrieved. And the relevant information can be traced easily with fingerprint or by phone number on government software near that locker. Not having such a feature forces people to save the uneducated or not sufficiently educated folks from their countries by taking away their passport.
Let us be fair. I have traveled abroad. It is not easy like just boarding a plane. There are too many check points. Each time documents have to be pulled out, shown, collected, and placed back AFTER CHECKING that nothing is missing. Passport and tickets are not integrated. So the person pulls out passport, ticket, luggage tag, boarding pass. Seasoned travelers know the routine. Interconnected flights and domestic flights complicate the matter some more because such a person would not know what to show, where to show. You add nervousness, lack of confidence, etc. to the concoction of the first time traveler.
I am truly surprised I traveled alone back then. None of my cousins did. Even though they traveled up and down several time.
Why we need people from home? Familiarity with food, rituals, and in general some practices not common in west. For example, pressing legs or back of older persons. Here, we press the legs of elderly people. We massage them daily with oil. Such services can be rendered any time. Usually late night after dinner. In the west, massage parlors are there, but that is specific type of service. Here, we tell them which part of the leg to massage. Toes, or calf. In any event, it does seem odd to be pulling out car each evening after dinner to take my parent to massage parlor for an hour and return only to have him complain again after an hour.
Pretty much depends upon what has been discussed between the employer and the employee.
If the employee has agreed for all those services at specified rate, including food and stay, then finding fault with the employer for minimum wages is unfair. He or she knew that back home, they cannot earn even that much.
Yes, if the minimum wages law is not adhered, locals may run short of employment. But it is not the skill or service that locals are doing. So where is the dent in their employment?
7 people like this
4 responses
@annierose (21583)
• Philippines
22 Jun
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. It's clear that you've put a lot of thought into these issues. It's important to consider the perspectives of both employers and employees in these situations. Finding fair and practical solutions, such as the one you proposed for passport storage, can help address some of the challenges faced by workers abroad.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (100282)
• India
22 Jun
In fact, if it is made mandatory to collect the passport before the exit point, human trafficking may come down. Authorities definitely need to consider such things.
The workers living in villa, cannot be made to work for 18 hours continuously. Nothing is being manufactured there to enable that kinda exploitation.
Agreed that they may have been sleeping in the basement. But back home, they would have been happy to get even that much.
No job is continuous. Like I cooked in the morning, then I had three hours break, then served food, then two hours break, then served tea, then two hours break, then serve dinner. And maybe after dinner some beverage. It cannot be termed 18 hours duty at a stretch. Back home, they would work in multiple homes. They are getting much more than what they would if they worked in more homes.
The grouse apparently is not having access to funds to buy things. But people who do not understand English or Swiss language, can they really know how much is the value of the currency, and if they spend away their earnings, what will they eat after the contract?
The only thing I find odd about it is, no health coverage. But that maybe because Hindujas may want to provide that too back home.
https://www.livemint.com/news/hinduja-brothers-sentenced-to-jail-breakdown-of-charges-against-the-indian-born-richest-family-in-britain-11719026736119.html
2 people like this
@annierose (21583)
• Philippines
23 Jun
@vandana7 You raise some important points. Access to passports and fair working conditions are essential for workers abroad. It's crucial to address these issues to protect the rights and well-being of all workers. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100282)
• India
23 Jun
@annierose But these people are uneducated lot! They cannot understand much about passport. Not even understand that it is an important document. The idea was to help the people back from home town such that they return after a few years and have sufficient for survival. Then the next person would be taken for similar upgrade of lifestyle. People also learn many things such as not to defecate outside. Here, many sleep on floor and as a group. There, they got a mattress. Many sleep near sewers running next to their rooms. Being in basement maybe royal for them. And earnings. In all probability, they would never ever earn as much as these people paid them, in their entire life. Just that our standards and the UK standards of minimum wages are different. There should be a via media minimum wage.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100282)
• India
23 Jun
What is fair wage in your world may not be fair wage in mine. That is what I am getting at.
Basically, minimum wages are to prevent exploitation and allow the person offering services to survive in the country based on the cost of living. Second reason is to prevent cheaper labor from other nations replacing them.
But if a persons food expenses are covered, and so are accommodation expenses and traveling expenses, then will the minimum wage not result in higher payment? After all, food, conveyance, and accommodation are part of that minimum wage.
Moreover, the skill set and the nature of service differed from the skill set and nature of service that is available in that country. Therefore, it is not usurping the jobs of locals.
Lastly, the payment is way way way higher than what the person would be able to earn within India. And more than double minimum wage in India. It would be sufficient for the person to build a home out here with it, because all of it would be saving. Given such a scenario, which minimum wage should apply? The one in the UK or the one in India? At least there should be some average of the two minimum wages, of which the food etc., may be deducted.
1 person likes this
@JudyEv (339930)
• Rockingham, Australia
24 Jun
@vandana7 I hear what you're saying but surely workers leave their home country to try to better themselves. Why should they earn less just because they're not in their own country. No local person would work for such minimal wages even if provided with food and lodging.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100282)
• India
24 Jun
@JudyEv What you are suggesting causes inflation and hurts everybody's pocket.
Yes, they leave to better themselves.
They are bettering themselves CONSIDERABLY considering that they are not even equipped to talk properly in English and have no guarantee of job back home.
Difference in cost of living between India and the UK is substantial.
They are getting much more than what they would get here as final payment. Here, they are not even sure of a job.
You see, the skill set that they have local people in UK do not have. So they are not usurping the jobs of the locals.
Why use uneducated Indians?
1. They cannot understand the conversation in English about business, which the locals would. This is extremely desirable as keeping secrets and security are not an issue. Locals understand millions and trillions, but these people cannot. Nor can they use computers or even smart phones.
2. They can cook authentic Indian food, for regular meals, without the extra additions of the hotels. Hotel meals usually have more spices. Locals are equipped to prepare hotel meals, not home food. They can also make more varieties unlike the locals. This means the skill sets are different.
3. They understand the culture, and can handle multiple aspects. For example, if a cook is sick, the other person can take over and cook something. Locals are not like that.
4. They know the routines and formalities for prayers and other ceremonies. Locals do not. Like we offer flowers to gods, bind it like a garland. We prepare sandalwood paste. We prepare a lamp with butter oil and cotton roll. We also keep flowers and prepare some sweet, everyday to offer to gods in daily prayer. Locals would not know this, unless they are immigrants. And immigrants will not come for minimum wages.
The minimum wage component...has house rent, food, traveling to and fro office, plus utilities components. Right?
Even if they were paid minimum wages as imposed, they cannot manage to live in a place where they cannot communicate. Are we on the same page here?
The rent component of minimum wages will not give them even as good an accommodation as the basement of this mansion. People don't build mansions with bad basement. Someday they have to to sell them.
Then comes commuting. When new to a place, with no command over language, chances of getting lost increase, isn't it?
Moreover, they are familiar with one currency, and they do not understand the currency of the other nation because of their limited education.
Many other factors such as clearing garbage, paying for utilities, shopping, etc.
All will be problematic with people who do not know the language and are not sufficiently educated.
People who are taking others for help cannot afford to be bogged down with taking care of the person they brought in. Going to police station reporting them missing, or to pick them up from there, for some offense that is not an offense out here.
Conditions are extremely different.
1 person likes this
@RevivedWarrior (2209)
• India
22 Jun
There are many like the Hindujas who exploit the alien workers. Sadly, rules for foreign workers have not been the best in most countries. There are many challenges while living in a foreign country. Medical facilities may not be readily available like in India.
@vandana7 (100282)
• India
22 Jun
I feel it is not exploitation. Back home, they do not have a job that pays them half the salary. They are either under heavy debt burden or in need of money in future for their kids education, marriage, house, or medical expenses of family.
Effectively, such jobs make them richer and better off.
While there are bad apples everywhere, Hindujas are hardly the folks who would be counting pennies from the pockets of servants.
1 person likes this
