Bible being replaced by Koran, to take the Oath for becoming Congressman for USA
By juls2me2
@juls2me2 (2150)
United States
December 2, 2006 11:10am CST
Keith Ellison, Democrat-Minn., has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran. Why should this guy be allowed to undermine our American laws and civilization? Sounds like us Americans may need to be concerned with the Muslims currently living in our Country that are breaking down our beliefs and values that our Country was founded on. What is your opinion about this?
13 responses
@Force_Fed (745)
• United States
6 Dec 06
I wouldn't want to be a member of any government that would require me to swear on the bible to anything. Least of all a government that claims to allow freedom of religion. Does that mean only Christians are allowed to be members of government? How about only Catholics? Or just Episcipalians may enter public service?
Either we are free to choose our religion, even choose no religion, or we are not. If we're not, we are no better than nations ruled under Islamic Law.
Force
1 person likes this
@juls2me2 (2150)
• United States
6 Jan 07
Nothing in the Constitution or our state laws mandate a person to swear on the Christian Bible, the legal alternative is to "affirm." This is a promise to tell the truth under pain of perjury, available to those who either do not believe in the Christian God, the Christian Bible, or whose interpretation of the Bible forbids them to swear. Some people have sworn in on the Old Testament or on different versions of the Christian Bible, all these texts were part of, or variations on the Christian Bible, included the Ten Commandments, and endorsed the same moral value of truth telling.
Being no religious test for elected office, and nobody trying to force Ellison to swear on the Christian Bible. He can make his affirmation under penalty of perjury, promising to tell the truth and uphold our man-made laws. This would not preclude him from practicing the religion of his choice.
Problem I have with him swearing an oath on the Koran is that it gives him permission to Lie to Infidels (which are Christians or any non-muslim believer...mainly all of the USA) and to not honor any laws other than the laws of Allah. AMERICA better wake up! It has nothing to do with freedom of religion...the Oath is promising to tell the truth and uphold the laws of our land.
@kiwimac (323)
• New Zealand
27 Jan 07
The right of Taqiyya, 'dissemblage' is only practised by Shi'ite Islam and does not apply in this circumstance as his life is not in danger.
Jewish Congressfolk are pictured with their hand on the Torah, LDS are often pictured holing the Book of Mormon, I have no problem with this man holding the Qur'an.
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
2 Dec 06
What are you talking about? What laws are undermined? How does this affect civilization? He is going to swear on that which he holds in the highest authority. This indicates the seriousness of his oath. It's not about whether you or I believe in the Koran. It's about whether HE does. If HE is willing to swear on that which he holds in the highest authority, then you can believe in his oath.
This is actually upholding our beliefs and values that our country was founded on. One of the most important of which is freedom of religion.
@juls2me2 (2150)
• United States
2 Dec 06
So you feel ONE person's belief system can change the current systems in place by our country's forefathers agreed upon by the American people and take the belief system of most Christian Americans away and just replace it with that ONE person's belief? That's what is wrong to me. I understand what you mean by making it a more serious oath. I know our country is founded on the Bible and basically Christian values. Our country is being stripped away of its religious basis.
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
4 Dec 06
No, I think our country was founded on freedom of religion. Allowing him to have this freedom actually UPHOLDS the values our country was founded on. That's one of the reasons we came over here. I don't have to agree with his religion to respect his right to believe as he chooses.
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
6 Dec 06
"This indicates the seriousness of his oath. It's not about whether you or I believe in the Koran. It's about whether HE does. If HE is willing to swear on that which he holds in the highest authority, then you can believe in his oath"
I agree completely! It be like me goin into a court of law and swearing to tell the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth on the bible...the bible means nothing to me so should I be so inclined to b.s I could and not feel bad about it...swear me in over my kids pics though and thats a totally different story! (bad comparison I know but I'm sure you get the point)
@srhelmer (7029)
• Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
4 Dec 06
Taking an oath on the Bible is more of a tradition than an actual law. In fact, most court houses have done away with that.
If he's doing it out of respect for a religion he believes in, I have no problem with it. One of our country's basic principals has always been religious freedom.
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
4 Dec 06
Allowing him to swear on the Koran doesn't translate to altering anyone's beliefs. It won't make me any less of a Christian.
@moinuddin102 (1783)
• Bangladesh
2 Dec 06
cause you can't force another man for your beliefs or cant force for changing their beliefs. In this world have some countries try to force muslims change beliefs, rules & all thing.
@juls2me2 (2150)
• United States
2 Dec 06
It works both ways. All religions want respect and yet are intolerant to Christians or the mention of the Bible, Christ, Jesus, etc. and want to remove and hush the Christian beliefs. It is wrong. If you're going to TOLERATE all Religions...then Tolerate Christianity too.
As far as changing our founded congressional Oath system, that's wrong. Then where do the lines get drawn to making an honest oath.
@juliocstryfe (2019)
• Brazil
6 Dec 06
This guy is stupid. US is not a Muslim country, and a Muslim is ordered BY THE KORAN itself to obey the laws of the country. A muslim can swear upon god on the Bible, as long as his original wish (niat) was on the Bible.
My opinion? That Muslims ned to stop listening to religious Ulama, Arab shariah makers and learn to read the Koran by themselves. Youd be surprised just how many things are taken out of context or translated from classic-modern arab wrongly.
The bible is written in the US law, and it should stay so.
@juliocstryfe (2019)
• Brazil
7 Dec 06
US does not refer to Christianity and its state rligion, howeer th Bible is cited in many laws and taken with rspect within th laws of court. The Muslims, within the US, should accept that.
And there are Christian countries , aka states that recognize some form of Christianity as their official religion (by denomination):
Roman Catholic
Jurisdictions which recognize Catholicism as their official religion:
Argentina
Bolivia
Costa Rica
El Salvador
Haiti
Liechtenstein
Malta
Monaco
Some cantons of Switzerland
Vatican City
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdictions which recognize one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches as their official religion:
Cyprus
Greece
Finland
Lutheran
Jurisdictions which recognize a Lutheran church as their official religion:
Denmark
Iceland
Norway
Finland
Anglican
Jurisdictions that recognise an Anglican church as their state religion:
England - Church of England
Reformed
Jurisdictions which recognize a Reformed church as their official religion:
Some cantons of Switzerland
Have a nice day!
1 person likes this
@Idlewild (6090)
• United States
6 Dec 06
What is he undermining? One of our founding principles was freedom of religion.
When orindary people such as jurors or trial witnesses are sworn in, they can choose to "affirm" that they will tell the truth, rather than "swear," if they are not religious and don't want to swear an oath on a Bible.
Why should a congressman have fewer rights than an ordinary person who testifies at a trial?
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
7 Dec 06
I think there are a lot of muslims who are better people than a lot of Christians. They tolerate a lot of hatred and stereotyping from Christians and only a few of them dish it back at us.
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
7 Dec 06
"Beautiful, just try going to an Islamic republic and running for any kind of public office as a non Muslim. And, if by some miracle you manage to do that, then just see what happens if you ask to be sworn in on a Bible, and then talk to me about tolerance."
Exactly! That is why we do not want to be that way. Or is the attitude you deplore so much in muslims OK if it's a Christian doing it?
"Bottom line: he has the freedom here to do it, here, in the US. We don't have to agree with it, but that's also our freedom."
That's my point exactly. Thank goodness we are not like other countries who do enforce religion on their citizens.
@nithinchinni (2307)
• India
7 Dec 06
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@xpress (68)
• Philippines
7 Dec 06
Hello:
I beleived that taking an oath whether on the Bible or Koran has nothing to do with fulfilling one's promise to uphold the law. Similarly, one singing the national anthem will not mean the person will not be a law breaker.
Your constitution guarantees freedom of religion as well as lawfullness and order. And in this instance The question is whether the congressman can practice his religion not whether some think he will be a law breaker someday by refusing taking an oath on the bible.
Now for the question where do we delineate the extent of freedom of religion ? the answer maybe on the extent of current laws that protect the right of others to life and property. Say killing I'm sure will not be tolerated by your constitution.
However I just want to say that in the point of view of the one practising religion, it doesn't matter what the law says if he/she believed that killing is part of their worship to their God, then they will even feel triumpahnt if persecuted for killing other people.
I know this is very dangerous but I'm afraid only the true God can really do something about it. As said somewhere in the bible , "in fact those killing you will think that they are giving glory to God"
@beautifulceiling (1300)
• United States
5 Dec 06
I was just watching Keith Olbermann on MSNBC. He was talking about this and said that when members of Congress are sworn in they don't actually put their hand on a Bible or a Koran or anything else. He said whenever you see pictures showing them doing that, it's a staged photo op. In reality, it doesn't even happen.
@UcoksBaBa (800)
• Indonesia
6 Jan 07
You whether knew that he a Muslim or not?
When he a certain Muslim with his conviction he will refuse to swear apart from on his holy scripture personally, but when he not a Muslim then questioned why he did like that, and don't do anything to force someone to move the conviction or on the basis of your tolerance forced the desire, in our country that the Muslim majority (Indonesia) we had not forced the person to take part in our method.
@BunGirl (2638)
• United States
5 Dec 06
The whole point in swearing on the Bible is that it makes it a solemn oath. If you don't believe in the bible, you might as well be swearing on a comic book because it will not cause you to think twice about breaking your oath. In my opinion it is a good thing that he is choosing to swear by something that is precious to him because that means he is taking this seriously.
In any case, Jesus said (in Matthew 5:33-37) "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."