Embryos and babies for spare parts?
By thewatchlist
@thewatchlist (653)
United States
December 22, 2006 10:23pm CST
Abortion is seems to be a very popular topic of debate here. There seems to be few who aren't sure of their opinion on that topic...
I'm more interested in discussing a related issue where the lines are a bit more blurred... I'm talking about creating babies for the sake of having that baby donate a kidney or bone marrow or stem blood or what have you to a parent or older sibling.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_10-5-2004_pg6_9 is one story about this topic that shows a little of the controversy.
Among other things, it talks about how test tube embryos are created from donors and then they are tested to see if they are suitable matches. If so, they are implanted so they can be carried to term. If not... they discard the embryos (which is also common practice with in vitro fertilization).
How do you feel about creating embryos in the lab and then destroying them if you don't need them or they are not a match?
For the pro-life folks out there, do you see this as the same as abortion? Why or why not?
I'm going to assume that most pro-choice peoples are not really going to see a problem with this. If you are pro-choice and do see this as wrong, please let me know why.
Also, some people try to have a child naturally for the same reason (to have it be a donor for another sibling). According to the article there is a 1 in 4 chance that the infant will match the ailing sibling. What are your thoughts on doing this?
3 people like this
26 responses
@megs85 (3142)
• Australia
23 Dec 06
I can't believe I am the first person to respond to such a high quality discussion :S ?!? CRAZY!
But to the point, I disagree with creating life to use for scientific purposes (whether that be human, or animal) and destroying it because it doesn't suit your needs. For the record, my views on abortion are quite open minded. I dont deny any woman the right to make an individual choice to have one based on her circumstances and views, but I would never have on personally. I also don't believe that a family should have a child just to try and cure the child tehy have. That is NOT a reason for bringing a human being into teh world, in my opinion.
Whats your opinion?
@arman4galZ (8)
• Pakistan
23 Dec 06
oh boy this is really bad and i too dis agree for such stuff,
man how can people even think about it!!!!!!!
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for the comments and thanks for being the first. I was getting worried that it would drop out of sight. : )
I figured with all the abortion debate here, that this one would really see some different answers.
And thanks for letting me know your stance on abortion along with your answer to my other questions. I think that it is very important to know both because they are related in a way. I find it interesting that you are pro-choice but against this (which was against my assumption), but then again your stance on doing this for science makes good sense.
I'll share my opinion on these questions I've asked soon. I want to get a few more responses first and then I will post it as a response to your comment since you were the first to ask.
When a topic is controversial, I prefer not to state my opinions right off the bat because some people can get very negative.
@captainambosky (117)
• United States
23 Dec 06
They are going to discard the embryos anyway.Just like abortions.If you have an abortion you can't change your mind when they are done and ask them to reinsert the child.But I have an unpopular opinion about things like this and animal testing as well.My mother went in a coma when I was 12 years old from Lupus.It hit her brain and she now suffers from psychosis and demintia and has never been able to be a mother to me since then.So my opinions on things are different because of her.I don't think they should create test tube babies for this mere purpose,but if you already have them why not use them.They might be able to save someone's mother one day.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting.
Sorry to hear about your mother's condition. A close family friend has lupus and I have seen some of the damage it can cause.
@captainambosky (117)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I am talking about using what is already been determined as "Medical Waste" I to believe in God.I even wish abortions were not needed.That everyone would see what it does to the child and the mother.But as long as it is legal why not use what will be thrown away so that at least some purpose will come from the baby.
1 person likes this
@birthlady (5609)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I think it is amoral to conceive a human being and genetically screen, throwing away the mismatched embryo(s). An embryo is a person. You were an embryo. I was an embryo. I see nothing wrong with donating the mismatched embryo to an infertile couple for adoption. But I don't care for the concept of spare part people.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
It is possible I suppose that one could choose to donate the nonmatches to other couples. The other couple could then be implanted with the embryo. Usually though if someone could carry a baby to term, but not naturally conceive, one would think that they might want to try in vitro with their own genetic materials first (making these donated embryos less in demand).
The spare part people are not so much as spare parts but more for providing cord blood or maybe in a rare case a kidney. In a way they would be providing spare parts, but (with the exception of actual organ donation) they would be hole and physically unaffected.
@erdsethu (165)
• India
23 Dec 06
hai read this
moments age Bush made statement at Whiite house,
an embryo is not a boy or a girl. its a clueter of about 150 cells smaller than the period. they were created for the purpose of vitro fertilization which are spare or in excess of clinical need and in every single case are slated for medical waste,........
each of these human embryo is a human life..............
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for your comments. I had not seen those statements before by Bush but I know a lot has been said over the past few years relating to stem cell research.
As mentioned before, during in vitro fertilization a number of embryo's are discarded.
@nhtpscd (1416)
• Australia
27 Dec 06
I have mixed reactions to this. To create to save another as long as both shall live long happy lives I would probably consider on same level. If this was done naturally but I wouldn't consider it done in a tube if only 1 gender was appropriate i.e you need a male only.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
The issue might not be that you need a male but that you need a certain blood type or a certain % of genetic match. The article said that if done naturally, apparently there is only a 1 in 4 chance of a match. Because of the time it takes for gestation, creating a match naturally could take a few years or more. That could be time that the other sibling did not have to spare.
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I believe that medical science is finding new ways everyday to save lives. I don't see anything wrong with creating embryos for this purpose. These embryos are not created by God do not have "souls". So how could pro-lifers think of this as abortion the labs that make these embryos are creating not aborting.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Some of them are brought to term. This is not about taking stem cells from an embryo. It is more about the parents of very ill children using in vitro fertilization to select a donor match child instead of risking the 1 in 4 chance (and time in case a natural fertilization of an egg).
You have brought up some very interesting points. Thank you very much for commenting.
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I have to add that I am not aware that these embryos are brought to full term and are birthed by a woman. They are not implanted in to a woman for this purpose.
1 person likes this
@vipul20044 (5793)
• India
23 Dec 06
Life was given to be enjoyed to be blessed and not just for the sake of some wierd experiments this is really sickening i mean where is the world going?
They say they are advancing but are they advancing by sacrificing the lifeforms?
What do they want and the results will be horrible
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
24 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting.
Unfortunately it seems like no progress (in any area) can be achieved without compromise. I think the hopes are that large steps can be made via these compromises that many view as large.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
It wouldn't only be for spare parts, they would be raised as a normal child. It's just that they would give up some of their cord blood to a sibling or maybe a kidney.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments. I know that if something was wrong with my child I would do whatever was at my disposal to help them so that means I agree with you on this. I do think though that we are in the minority.
@nobodyspecial (1011)
• United States
24 Dec 06
If one is going to argue a cell cluster is a human being, then one has to take that arguement one step farther and lay claim to sperm cells and ovum are human also.
Millions of sperm are 'waste' each day, thousands of ovum are also. Yet each has the potential to divide create a cluster, a zygote etc and eventually an infant.
We can sit here an put forth our opinions on this matter, but how many of us know what the parents of these children experience. What agonies do they go through in making the decision to do this thing?
I can remember a time when there was concern over population growth. I could never reconcile this concern with the concept that every cell cluster had rights for life in the fullest sense of the term.
Can any one of you tell me exactly what you would do if presented with such a problem? A living child, one you have loved and raise, worried over, who has held your hand...knowing this child may die if you do not make a decision...that it is possible to save this child by doing this one thing.
There was a time when invitro fertilization was frown upon, that such children thought by some to be soulless.
Now we have controversy over whether or not a cell cluster is human.
Define human for me...does it have to be viable? Able to live outside it's host's body?
A fetus is a parasite in the purest sense of the word. It lives off the host. Without the host there is no hope of survival.
There is a point where it begins to develop lungs, a digestive system, a heart, and brain...but prior to that point it is just cells grouped together.
For so long man has been changing the natural order of things that there is no longer an order. What happens if we stop now? What happens if we do not continue to push the envelope?
Going back to my question, what if it was your child? And this was that child's only hope of life? I know what my answer is...I wonder if you do.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
24 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments. I fully understand and agree with what you are saying.
@doran28 (109)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I think that its ok for a really basic reason. These emryos do not feel pain the way we do or even the way a third trimester fetus does. They do not have a sense of self. Embryos are created and lost all the time. If you object to it based on sancity of life then you may as well be vegatarian, otherwise your argument is useless.
1 person likes this
@sunshinecup (7871)
•
24 Dec 06
I am very pro-choice, however with all due respect, that has little to nothing to do with this topic. I support a woman right to a legal and safe abortion if that so be her choice. No one has a right to force an unwanted pregnancy on any one.
Now as for this topic, I do NOT agree with manufacturing of any species for the sole purpose of sceintific studies. Whether it be a human or animal I do not agree with it. I do not agree with either creating it in a test tube or through a pregnancy, having a baby to use as "spare parts" for a sibling. It's going to far. Find cures, find treaments stop using humans as products.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
24 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments.
I should have been more clear. My seeing it as related to abortion has to due with the fact that conception occurs and then many of those embryos are unwanted and then destroyed for the sake of finding the match.
@idrob2006 (317)
• Indonesia
24 Dec 06
I fully support this effort. I know it seems really un-human to do that kind of thing. But has anyone ever imagine how many disaseses, how many people we can save by doing that? I think it is worth a try. Back then, when they would like to try a new medicine; they will experiment it to a living human. like penicilin for example. I dont hear anyone complain about penicilin today? why? because it could save you!!
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
24 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting. I'm not sure if the penicilin comparision really works though.
@jen20619 (1300)
• Ireland
23 Dec 06
I think the test tube embryos is done to give someone the chance for a child.I dont believe its the same as abortion and I think someone voluntering to be a donor to give someone else the chance to a have a baby.Is a very wonderful thing.
@Lackingstyle (7509)
•
23 Dec 06
It’s an excellent prospect for the child with a disease that effects their life seriously, though the new born is being engineered to be something that it can’t be, something that it shouldn’t ever have to be.
Relations give kidneys because they love and care for one another, you could seriously bring the child up to have many issues surrounding trust and it’s role in life, the only purpose it exists is to serve the sibling, and through some cases I believe it can be a ‘life-time’ intrusion of giving blood, and other things which is bound to bring resentment.
Medically it’s fantastic, of course it is, for the emotional wellbeing of the child it could be a disaster.
I could see pro-choice having a problem with this, as it’s completely different from abortion, and not even under the same umbrella and ‘really’ effects a newborn.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for the comments. You have mentioned some excellent points.
My reference to it being in the same lines of abortion was more about the intentional creation and then destruction of these unwanted/nonmatching embryos. I probably should have been more clear.
@langara123 (887)
• India
23 Dec 06
Creating a new life with scientific help is not good , as this is against the nature. Anything which is done against the law of nature will perish after a sometime.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting.
Your statement about something being created against the law of nature will perish after time. I'm not sure that I fully understand as all living things die eventually. Was your comment more about something on a spiritual level? Please elaborate.
@mjgarcia (725)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I've heard of this before and I still disagree with the practice. And yeah, I'm pro-life. The idea of harvesting babies is horrible to me. The fact that they are embroys doesn't change that. We may draw the line at embroys now, but what about in the future? Will we be harvesting parts from children that are not "quality" children. To have a child to become a donor for another is even more horrifying. Can you imagine being the second child? Feeling like you were only born because your parents loved the first so much that they had you only to save him? That your worth is only in reference to how much the first child needs from you? And to throw out embroys just becasue they aren't needed is selfish also. There are many people out there that would love to have a child but cannot.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments.
There are people out there that can not have children, but probably not that many that couldn't or wouldn't want to use as much of their genetic material (egg from the mom + sperm from the father, egg from mom + sperm from donor, egg from donor + sperm from father) if they can successfully go through the in vitro fertilization process.
Just the same, when a woman donates her eggs to someone else she has to sign off on them stating that the remaining must be either disposed of, donated for science, or frozen and donated to another couple.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting. Are you refering to the children who are born or the embryos that are discarded?
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
23 Dec 06
Thanks for your comment. Could you please elaborate as to why you don't think it should be done?
@missy1 (104)
•
23 Dec 06
as a parent i understand the need to do almost anything to save a child but i could not have a baby unless it was the right reason,it's not right to have a baby as a medical treatment for another child and the chances of a match are not that much higher than any other relative
1 person likes this