Oath of Office and the Koran....they don't mix
By juls2me2
@juls2me2 (2150)
United States
January 6, 2007 12:58pm CST
Nothing in the Constitution or our state laws mandate a person to swear on the Christian Bible, the legal alternative is to "affirm." This is a promise to tell the truth under pain of perjury, available to those who either do not believe in the Christian God, the Christian Bible, or whose interpretation of the Bible forbids them to swear. Some people have sworn in on the Old Testament or on different versions of the Christian Bible, all these texts were part of, or variations on the Christian Bible, included the Ten Commandments, and endorsed the same moral value of truth telling.
Being no religious test for elected office, and nobody trying to force Ellison to swear on the Christian Bible. He can make his affirmation under penalty of perjury, promising to tell the truth and uphold our man-made laws. This would not preclude him from practicing the religion of his choice.
Problem I have with him swearing an oath on the Koran is that it gives him permission to lie to Infidels (which are Christians or any non-muslim believer...mainly all of the USA) and to not honor any laws other than the laws of Allah. America better wake up! It has nothing to do with freedom of religion...the Oath is promising to tell the truth and uphold the laws of our land. What is your opinion?
1 person likes this
18 responses
@misskatonic (3723)
• United States
6 Jan 07
But he wouldn't be swearing a religious oath to uphold the laws of the Koran. he'd be swearing on his own holy text to uphold the laws of America. The whole point of using the Bible to take an oath is that it's religiously binding. Allowing only the Bible as a religious binding text gives the impression that the government only recognizes Biblical religions. This is about freedom of religion. Swearing on the Bible doesn't mean that someone's sworn to uphold Biblical law and only the laws of their God, only that they've sworn before their God. The same thing with the Koran.
7 people like this
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
6 Jan 07
I also agree misskatonic. You put it much clearer than my response.
@FinalNemesis (23)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I used to have the same idea as juls2me2 but you make much more sense! They are swearing in on a religious text that they will uphold the laws of this country, not to uphold the laws of that religious text.
I agree, thanks for the great breakdown.
@medooley (1873)
• United States
6 Jan 07
Come on... he is still swearing to up hold all the things that America stands for and he is swearing on what is most holy to him. You think that he would disrespect his most holy book....
Plus... How many Christians have been swarn in on the bible and then lied about something? Apparently that really doesn't work either uh?
When I first heard this story I was proud to be an American because here someone with different religious believes can rise to a seat of power, I believe that it could be far harder to do in other countries.
3 people like this
@juls2me2 (2150)
• United States
8 Jan 07
Thanks for your response. I still don't agree with you and feel you're deceived about the subtlety of what the Muslims are doing in our country. Wake up! Name calling doesn't change what is going on. I lived next to a couple of the Muslim men that actually flew the airplane into the NY buildings. They looked nice, seemed like abiding citizens, but hey apparently looks aren't everything, they're burning our flag and were planning this horrible event behind all our backs, right in their mosque up the street. I do find it difficult to accept the Quran/Koran/Qur'an being brought into our government, when our current oath taking procedures provide for someone not desiring to swear or do it on the Bible.
@western_valleygirl (1363)
• United States
7 Jan 07
I agree with you, Medooley..because, when I first saw the debate that they had against even considering to allow him to enter congress, I was so disappointed to hear all the racist, and stereotypical questions that they were asking him. Which had nothing whatsoever to do with his politics.
Furthermore, America was built as a haven for religion, and yes, this is a discussion about religious freedom. Even if the author of said discussion claims that it is not, it is obvious that it is...unless, this is all a glittering generality, then it does not matter anyway.
An American is not necessarily a Christian, and a terrorist is not necessarily a Muslim. I wish our president would stop mentioning religious remarks in his speeches, because that has absolutely nothing to do with politics, just as the swearing in of Ellison on the Quran does not. And to the author of this discussion, I would just like to say, if you researched politicians, philosophers, and economists you would realize that the majority of them are athiest. Welcome to the 21st Century.
@western_valleygirl (1363)
• United States
7 Jan 07
Furthermore, I commend you on your open mind, intellectual awareness, and your unwillingness to join the proverbial bandwagon.
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
6 Jan 07
I saw his swearing in on the TV. I did not feel that he was using the Koran as omen of future lying to America.
1 person likes this
@drp2p2 (6)
• United States
6 Jan 07
I am not surprised by this question. Ignorance is a social sickness, which is manifested by a closed mind. The Holy Quran is a book that has not changed since the early 7th century. As opposed to the Christian Bible, that has a new revision every 6 months, with a different message of hate with each rendition.
The question of swearing on a bible or Quran, apply common sense. The Christian Bible has been used to justify slavery in the States, commit genocide against Native Americans, and kill innocent humans in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I would rather trust a faithful Muslim, then a Christian American who has over 300 years of murder behind their book, faith, and ideology.
Class Dismissed.
DrP2P
@juls2me2 (2150)
• United States
6 Jan 07
You're right about Ignorance. Apparently many people forget all the facts about the purpose of the Christian Crusades, like any war there are problems. The reasons for them were because the Muslims were taking over country after country, removing the religious freedoms of Christians among other religious beliefs as they took over. Basically claiming all people that believed other than the Muslim faith---are infidels so its alright to kill in their Allah(God)'s eyes. The Koran, Quran, Qur'an...however you choose to spell it (Same) upholds this belief that infidels (non-believers of the muslim faith) are cursed by God, especially Christians and Jews.
If someone doesn't want to take the Oath on the Bible, The Oath should be affirmed like others have done...basically accepting to tell the truth and to uphold and abide by the laws of our land....instead of bringing a questionnable book in to represent your views. What if they wanted to use the Satanic Bible...which clearly lies and deceit is a good thing. How far will you allow things to go? If you give in now, its downhill from there.
@western_valleygirl (1363)
• United States
7 Jan 07
I cannot believe that you would call the Quran a questionable book. Islam is the third largest religion in the world. I am a person that loves to read, and in highschool and college, I took an English class called World Masterpieces. I strongly suggest that you take that class. Not only does it have sections dedicated to the Bible and the Quran, but it starts with the earliest written masterpieces, such as The Iliad and The Odyssey and continues to modern day. Before you make judgements, it would be best to know all the facts.
2 people like this
@blergh (17)
• United States
6 Jan 07
I think he has the right to swear on his book rather than swear on theirs. Why should he swear on something he does not believe in? It does not give him permission to lie to infidels because he swore to tell the truth on his book. If he swore on his book, maybe he would have lied to infidels.
@nana1944 (1364)
• United States
7 Jan 07
Mr. Ellison is swearing to uphold the constitution of the United States. It does not mean he will lie anymore than any other polition. America was based on freedom of religion.
@visitorinvasion (7709)
• United States
6 Jan 07
I don't see what it matters what they swear on, they lie to us anyway. Personally, I have awakened. Been getting my information here: www.prisonplanet.tv
There's a whole lot more going on than officials swearing in on the Koran. You'll be shocked to find out what the press is keeping off the screen these days.
@visitorinvasion (7709)
• United States
7 Jan 07
No, smarty-pants, I meant the d*mn politicians. I don't have anything against the muslims or anyone else that didn't do something to me personally.
1 person likes this
@western_valleygirl (1363)
• United States
7 Jan 07
I understand what you meant Visitor...and the fact that the media functions the way the politicians want is just pathetic. To even get relevant news, I find myself looking for international coverage, because here we hardly ever get the real story. Before it even reaches us, it has become old news in other parts of the world. This is why so many Americans cannot even tell you simple things like who the Prime Minister of England is, Or Where what the capital of Hungary is...they probably don't even know it is a country...
1 person likes this
@dradelelassy (1208)
• United States
6 Jan 07
i agree with you
there must be oath to tell the truth and nothing but truth as firm oath regardless of sympole of any religion
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
7 Jan 07
In my opinion, they should swear in on the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Swearing in on the bible has done nothing to stop countless politicians from lying and cheating and stealing from we tax payers.
If you are going to have someone swear on a book though, have them swear on a book that matters to them. As for the Koran stating that all Americans are infidels, that is nonsense. The Koran says that if someone follows the teachings of the Torah or the Gospels (as in the old testament and the new testament) that they are good guys and get to go to heaven. The complaint in the Koran is about hypocrites in the ranks of Jewish and Christian peoples. I'm not sure, but I think the Bible also isn't fond of hypocrites.
BTW, I'm not Islamic but I've read the book because I'm tired of seeing all these people claim this or claim that with out any apparent knowledge of what they are talking about.
@luvgold (264)
• Indonesia
7 Jan 07
Sorry I could not give the best solution, because of this problem has been the problem of the religion, and the community already knew if the religious matter liked sensitip
but nice post
@Sawsen (793)
• United States
7 Jan 07
First of all, that's not true! If a Muslim swears on the Quran, then they have to tell the truth to ANYONE AND EVERYONE! It's not about being honest to Muslims only. I don't know where you heard that from but you got your information wrong. It does not give him permission to lie, and I think you need to get your information straight before you decide to post anything of a serious nature.
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
6 Jan 07
It has become a habit, some or many do it just because it has been done all the way. I am a Christian, but there are many religions, and there is a freedom of religion, this should be modified. Perhaps for those who believe in God and believe in the Holy Bible as the Word of God, the administering officer and/or the witness (in most cases) may do this. The witness should be given an alternative or choice if he is not a Christian, or if he so desires not to be sworn in to tell the truth and nothing but the truth or in pledge of allegiance.
@qirat31 (88)
• India
7 Jan 07
well thats the way of emotionally touching the person by asking him to take an oath on their respective holy books.
ya its immoral to ask a person of different faith to take an oath on a diff holy book. that should be restricted , depending on the persons faith u have to decide on the oath process. well another doubt arises . wat if he is an aethist?? any opinon?
