Violent dogs
By Adrenochrome
@Adrenochrome (1653)
January 8, 2007 5:12pm CST
In the UK, the police are having a field day arresting dangerous breeds of dogs, not necessarily dangerous dogs, just by breed. This seems a tad 'racist'. Society would never condone arresting every Japanese person, just in case they turned Yakuza during their life! (My apologies to any Japanese reader, I am just using your nation as an example, not because I feel you are violent)
Dogs are peaceful creatures, it is the owners who turn them to violence, yet they are not putting those people in cages for euthanising!
Perhaps, they should! What do you think?
6 people like this
36 responses
@shywolf (4514)
• United States
9 Jan 07
Sigh.. I find this very sad. There is no point in arresting breeds of dog just because a few of them have been agressive. I truly believe that dogs are the most wonderful creatures on earth. Sure, there are aggresive and mean dogs, just as there are aggressive, cruel and mean humans. But not all dogs of any one breed are 'bad', no matter what reputation that breed might have. I don't think that we should go so far as to be putting humans in cages, but I do think that we should be re-thinking what we are doing as a society by stereotyping breeds of dogs in this way.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Thanks, I feel you reflect my feelings and have expressed them perfectly.
3 people like this
@dragonstar13 (1465)
• United States
9 Jan 07
I've owned many dogs in my lifetime, three come to mind as being most relevant to this discussion. Fred, 50 pounds of doberman-pinscher known as one of the most vicious breeds before rotweiler came in vogue. Alpha a 3 month old white german shepherd, another large breed who could be mean but usually good natured until provoked. And Mollie 10 lb Pomeranian, a lap dog meant for petting and cuddling.
Fred was the sweetest gentlest dog I ever owned. Mollie was a sweetheart, to me and the kids, but let a stranger or another dog come near and she was all teeth and viciousness, snapping and snarling. More than once I had to pry her teeth out of the pants legs of my daughters' boyfriends. Alpha was the playful pup whose bite to my hand required stitches to close.
Was their behavior the result of breeding? I don't think so. Nor do I think it was the result of their treatment as much as it was their relationship with me.
Fred had been abused as a pup; instead of fighting back, he cowered in fear. With gentleness and love I taught him to respond to me.
Mollie was over protective of me and the children.
And Alpha was just a puppy, we played tug of war with a rope. Unfortunately he lost his grip on the rope and I reached forward to give it back to him just as he leaped forward and snapped to grab it catching my hand instead.
As you can see, dogs should no more be judged based on their breed than humans should be judged based on the color of their skin.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Wonderful response, full of information and experience. I have a teenage daughter, and would love to have a dog like Mollie (Lol).
As you say, though, with Mollie, she was protective and her actions are that of any creature (human or animal) when sensing threats to her loved ones. The showing of teeth, and snarling are a warning, to be taken seriously. As for gripping the trousers, I have always been really amazed by the ability of dogs to use their teeth as sensory organs. I once stepped upon the leg of a friends Alsation (the very large dog was lying in the hallway - his space - and there was a party going on, with many people mingling, as I tried to carefully step over him), and he immediately grabbed my leg between his jaws, gave me a nip which lightly bruised the shin and calf, gave me a really patronizing look, and went back to reclining on the floor. He could certainly have broken the leg, and maybe removed the whole limb, if he had chosen, but used a very measured (to the point of not breaking the skin) response.
Thank you for a really good detailed response.
1 person likes this
@ButtrflyDreams (1139)
• United States
9 Jan 07
There is no such thing as a dangerous dog, just dangerous owners. Besides, "pit bull" isn't even a breed. Most of the breeds that are termed "pit bull" are not human agressive if they are bred properly. It's not right to restrict what dogs that people can own. They should, however, restrict what people can own dogs...especially strong dogs that can really hurt someone when they're in the wrong hands.
1 person likes this
@ButtrflyDreams (1139)
• United States
9 Jan 07
Rottweilers are not dangerous unless they have bad owners. It's not fair to say that a whole breed of dog is dangerous. That's like saying that a whole race of people is bad because of a few people of that race.
1 person likes this
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
9 Jan 07
Anything can be voilent, even a rabbit however just because it has voilence in it doesn't mean it will be voilent. To ban dogs or to arrest them just because of their breed is wrong. Many dogs including Bull Mastiffs, bludd dogs adn others were bred to be faught, to fight bears, boars etc. However they are not being arrested. It is just a handful that have gotten bad names because of bad owners. Owners who treated them poorly, ones who raised them to be mean in order to make money, or ones who were abusive.
Now I was attacked by a doberman as a child, am I scared of all of them? Yes I am however that doesn't mean I think they need to be destroyed. I have known good ones although I'm very leary around them due to the attack. The doberman that attacked me belonged to my neighbor and yes they reaised her mean. It was the owner's fault not the dog.
2 people like this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I think that it is very brave and considerate of you to be so open-minded about this issue, having suffered such an incident. I can personally understand (and do completely sympathise with anyone who suffered such an attack) why people would be wary and afraid of such a dog, if it was a stranger to them. Many dogs are veru protective of their owners, and will menace if they sense that you are not comfortable around their master. They think you may wish the owner harm.
Most dogs, once their master/mistress has introduced you to them, and they are aware you're a friend, will be the most loving, affectionate and cuddly friend you'll ever know.
Thank you for your feedback.
1 person likes this
@goldinvest (119)
• Indonesia
9 Jan 07
I from Indonesia,
there was many dog sorts in my country,
the funny dog and the hero of the obedient animal.
I not all that agreed with your opinion
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Indonesia is a beautiful country, I was there about 15 years ago, and enjoyed every minute.
I didn't see too many dogs, just some awe inspiring natural scenery, great food, tremendous cities and lovely people.
Thank you for your answer, I hope to return one day.
1 person likes this
@thekiwi (588)
• United States
9 Jan 07
thank you! Finally someone feeling the way i feel....Pit Bulls and Rottweilers have a bad rep BECAUSE of their owners training them to be mean. Its not their fault they are good fighting dogs, and people use pit bulls to fight in a dog ring! its the owners that should be hauled away not the dogs. We are in control of the animals, we are the dominate ones! it is our fault they are the way they are!
2 people like this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Thank you, it seems you feel just as I do. No dog is born violent, human society has, on occassions, manufactured this within them.
1 person likes this
@madmax2crazy (1569)
• United States
9 Jan 07
I agree completely, you cannot condemn a whole breed just because a few of them are bad. I myself own a female American Straffordshire Terrier(pitbull) and she's the most loving and gentle dog, so gentle in fact she won't grab food offered to her by hand, she'll slowly gently painstakingly get an edge of what's offered making sure not to touch you skin. I'll offere her a piece of hamburger and she'll gently take it out of my hand and go eat it a foot or two away, it's so cute how careful she is to not bite the hand that feeds her lol
1 person likes this
@ButtrflyDreams (1139)
• United States
9 Jan 07
Awww! She sounds so cute! LOL I own 3 Am Staffs & a Am Staff/Lab & they're the same way...they are very gentle when they take food from my hands. :)
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
10 Jan 07
She sounds gorgeous, and is probably more representative of dogs, than those who do harm. Well written books like 'Cujo', are read by people, who then see such a dog and believe it's a devil dog, rather than having first hand experience of living dogs. The books are great, but fiction.
Give your lovely doggy an extra burger, she's just earnt you a positive rating. Thanks.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Thank you, I believe we are on the same wavelength here.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I think you have summed it up beautifully, owners who misuse or abuse their dogs are really missing out on a wonderful experience. Thank you very much.
1 person likes this
@nitrodona (418)
• Italy
9 Jan 07
I agree with your thinks, here happen lot of time that a dog attack a person, but for me the fault is not of the dog.
Here lot of persons buy a dog only for de pedigree or for the aggressive view, and make all in order rendering it aggressive! so for me the police have to arrest the owner, not the dog!!
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Thank you, we do seem to have quite a few people who agree with us, though I'm not ignoring those who have expressed a differing opinion. Too many people seem to use dogs as accessories, rather than seeing them as living creatures.
Ciao.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I agree, both owners and dogs should have to undergo training to get their licenses. Thank you.
1 person likes this
@glasser3 (354)
• Hibbing, Minnesota
9 Jan 07
i think thats just plain dumb how can they condone doing that i mean granted certain breeds can be dangerous but to just go and "arrest" them all is just dumb i think they need to give people a chance to remove the dog from the area unless of course you mean they are banning them in the whole country?? and then in that case wow i dont know what to say to that. i know over here in certain areas certain larger breeds arent allowed but still they give you a chance to find somewhere else for the dog.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
It is not an all out ban on these poor creatures, it is a clampdown on ownership, not just among the breeders. I should have made that point far more clearly, especially for the global public who will not be aware of the recent goings-on in the UK.
These dogs are already subject to a lot of restrictions, by punishment of law, and it seems that once again the UK authorities are reacting to a news item, rather than as the result of any inquiry or ongoing research. The UKs government does seem to jump on any bandwagon the media creates, rather than establishing a coherent pattern of informed and researched policy making.
I hope I have clarified the position, and thank you for your contribution.
1 person likes this
@Ciniful (1587)
• Canada
8 Jan 07
I'm in Canada. Several cities started years ago with the pitbull ban, and our city enacted ours 2 years ago. Before I continue, let me get this out of the way.
I agree with the ban 100 per cent.
You say that it's not the dog, it's the owner. In most cases, I would agree with you. Generally, you're right ... a dog mistreated will eventually turn to violence. However, you're either not taking into account, or ignoring the fact, that some dogs are instinctively bred to violence. Pitbulls, dobermans, rottweilers for example. There are certain breeds of dogs that, no matter how well treated, are instinctively violent because that's what their species was bred FOR.
There are many, MANY cases of pitbulls that were not mistreated, that were raised properly by their owners, who turned to violence.
And the common rebuttal is, by the violent dog advocates, that small dogs bite too. Yes they do. However they do not have the power in their jaws to rip a persons throat out. A pitbull does.
I have children. One of my children was a victim of a doberman attack, and I was an onlooker of a doberman and pitbull attack when I was a child. I watched my friend walk past a house to have one of each of these dogs run out after her and chew her leg to pieces.
You're trying to equate ridding soceity of dangerous breeds of dogs as racist, and using different races as examples. It's an illogical analogy and inaccurate. Races of humans are not instinctively violent. If they were, we'd be doing something it as well.
If you're one of the ones who happens to like these dogs, you have my sympathies. But the simple fact is, when something is causing a serious danger to innocent bystanders, that factor has to be removed.
I'm glad the UK is catching up.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I can understand your belief, and support for the idea. I know that certain breeds CAN become very nasty, but this is often also because of what they are fed. If you feed a Dobermann/pitbull/etc a high protein diet, they will become more violent. A low protein diet and they will generally be more cuddly.
Alas, mankind is inherently violent, across all races, creeds and religions. The Buddhist Lamas fought running battles with the Shaolin. The Europeans have warred and opressed for centuries, and there are no less than 6 substantive wars going on today, and many more armed struggles.
Whilst noone was ever killed by a dachtshund, there is not a singular country in the world that has never killed, or housed a killer.
@western_valleygirl (1363)
• United States
9 Jan 07
I agree with you, and here in the U.S., we have the same thing going on in many areas. We also have places where people must post distinct and clear signs about the types of dangerous dogs that they have. Furthermore, more and more people are protesting the rights of keeping violent dogs in residential homes and areas. Some dogs are violent, because it is their survival mechanism. This is the same as if you were trying to keep a lion or a wolf as pet.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Strangely, in the UK we have a couple of sweet old landed gentry who are known for their eccentricity, and one of them has just that - lions!
2 people like this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I think you are both perfectly correct in saying the owner should face investigation, and prosecution where they have been a factor in the incident. My thanks to you both.
1 person likes this
@sendittoryan2 (1)
• United States
9 Jan 07
Sadly, the owners of the dogs contribute to the dogs behavior heavily. The owner is just as guilty as the dog in most cases. If they are going to punish animals for their actions, they need to punish the owners just the same.
2 people like this
@areeb124 (243)
• Pakistan
9 Jan 07
Thid time it was a pit-bull, in September a baby was killed by two rottweilers. Usual suspects I'm afraid. Whilst the vast majority of owners of these two breeds are probably responsible people, the fact is that both these dog types can become lethally dangerous without ANY provocation. I'd like to see these breeds phased out as pets and no new ones sold. I also insist that ANYONE who has ANY breed of dog that becomes unnecessarily dangerous due to owner neglect should go to prison. Then things might sink into their THICK heads. No disrespect is intended to responsible owners. So should we imprison? , and should we phase out dangerous breeds?
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
Thank you, I had forgotten the incident in September. I'm not 100% sure about the no provocation comment, though the provocation may have not been by the victims. Unfortunately, young children can sometimes behave badly towards an animal, without meaning to, just being interested and inquisitive.
I do feel that your comment, regarding heftier penalties for owners at fault, is an excellent idea. Though there are a great many loving and docile Rottweillers, Bull Terriers, Alsatians etc, and I should think it a shame to lose yet more species from a world, where many creatures are already extinct, or on the verge thereof.
Thank you.
1 person likes this
@MrNiceGuy (4141)
• United States
9 Jan 07
I believe in Miami pitbulls are illegal to own.
Its because of a few things. First off, you can't say a pitbull is just as harmless as any other dog regardless of owners, they are killing machines. Even a nice pitbull is still very dangerous, and pitbulls are notoriously aggressive since they are breed that way.
Secondly, pitbulls are very often used for fighting. In America pitbulls are definately the #1 fighting dog and that is a big problem in some areas.
@ButtrflyDreams (1139)
• United States
9 Jan 07
You seriously need to do your research. "Pit Bull" isn't even a breed. It's a group of breeds that are all piled into that term. I bet you didn't know that. Do you know what a "pit bull" looks like? Try looking up American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Boxer...ALL of those are cosidered "pit bulls"
@Adrenochrome (1653)
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10 Jan 07
I feel that Mrniceguy is simply echoing an error that the media has created. They like to use generally indicative terms rather than the correct phrases, it makes for better soundbites and less typeset costs.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
I understand what you are saying, though believe that these animals are often fed diets, and treated in a manner that brings out this potential side to the dogs. Many dogs are amazingly strong for their size, and if one does turn, it is a very dangerous situation, even for a strong adult.
It does make me sad to hear that there are still people in the US who choose to fight dogs. There is an underground dog-fighting situation in the UK, though I hope it is not widespread (but I could not even estimate how many dogs are involved). I'm sure this form of activity also goes on in many parts of the world, but to think that supposedly modern, intelligent and cultured first world countries like ours, still suffer from this kind of blood-thirst at the expense of mans best friend, greatly saddens me! Thanks for your input.
1 person likes this
@cognigen (121)
• Mexico
9 Jan 07
The US city of Denver has a ban on pit bull dogs within
city limits. While I agree that the right of a child to
be safe in his community should supercede the right of
a person to own a dangerous dog; it would make more sense
to me to regulate the ownership of dangerous breeds,
rather than to forbid it.
A good dog trainer can tell whether an individual dog
is likely to become violent; and if breeds known to be
dangerous could be subject to special licensing and
evaluation; and then only individuals with a potential
for violence could be banned or otherwise sanctioned.
@evil66in (18)
• India
9 Jan 07
A week back Bangalore(India), a dog attacked a girl. It is believed that dog got voilent as they were regularly fed red meat all the time by the residents of the area, unfortunately, they no animal activist commented on it. If municipal corporation takes an action against it to avoid these situation, animal activist would be the first to come into lime light.
1 person likes this
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
9 Jan 07
The diet of these big dogs really can, and does, effect their behaviour. Thanks.
1 person likes this
@PurpleTeddyBear (6685)
• Canada
17 Jun 07
I agree with you that not all dangerous breeds should be banned. I think the ones that should though are the ones that have been mistreated, starved, abused, etc. Those are the ones that go around attacking and killing people or other animals. Also I would have to agree on the ban for rotweilers. Reason being that their brain never stops growing and they eventually go crazy attacking people and other animals. It's not their fault as their brain never stops growing and their skull can only take so much pressure. I was actually going to adopt one from the Humane Society here. My visit with her went so well, but I thought I would sleep on it. The next day the Humane Society Manager said that she had bitten someone after I had left so they had to put her down. In just a few minutes the dog had completely changed, it was so sad!
@pamthegypsy (136)
• United States
17 Jun 07
I haven't heard that drivel in years! I remember some rather undereducated types telling me the same silly "urban legend" about my Dobermans! Can anyone seriously believe that any brain continues to grow until it is too large for the scull?
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that a dog in a cage could have bitten anyone unless the human was taunting the animal and making it feel threatened. If you incarcerate humans they will act agressive as well!!!
Yes, it is VERY sad. It is also sad that this poor animal was so very misunderstood.
@ettedualc (45)
• Trinidad And Tobago
2 Jul 08
I believe that certain breeds of dogs should be put down altogether take for example the bitbull