Transporting Criminals to Another Country
By ossie16d
@ossie16d (11821)
Australia
February 1, 2007 2:24pm CST
More than 200 years since the first boatload of English convicts reached our shores, overcrowded British jails are once again considering sending their prisoners Down Under. In a desperate move to combat what has become a national crisis, Prime Minister Tony Blair announced he will do anything possible — including sending convicts overseas — to relieve pressure on the country's "full to bursting" prison system.
The Daily Telegraph reports that Australia's High Commissioner to the UK Richard Alston acknowledged the prospect of accepting UK prisoners at a recent function.
Britain's chief prisons inspector Anne Owers blames the crisis on a law change which allows judges to give indefinite sentences. "We have a serious crisis and one that is impacting on the ability to do rehabilitation work," she said in a damning report. "It is normally considered good practice to build an ark before the flood."
The situation is so dire that the UK's Home Secretary John Reid has written a letter to judges demanding that only the most violent and dangerous criminals be locked up. Reid has been forced to think up radical options to free up prison cells, such as releasing prisoners early; sending the 11,000 foreign nationals currently locked up back to their home country; creating a waiting list for jail spaces; and even using ships to house prisoners offshore.
The maximum capacity for British jails is 80,716. In November last year, the number of inmates topped 80,000 for the first time.
This is in the news here in Australia today. I thought that the days of transporting prisoners was long past. How would you feel if one of your loved ones was to be transported? Also how would feel if your country was to take prisoners from another one? Why don't the British just build more prisons if they have such a huge problem with the number of prisoners?
10 people like this
31 responses
@caramello (4377)
• Australia
1 Feb 07
Well ossie if I was a prisoner of today and had the choice of coming to Australia to be in one of their prisons I would not knock it back! lol 5 star Motel no worries! We keep having new prisons built here and there are a lot of changes going on in the system at the moment especially in Victoria, so I cannot see why the British cannot do the same and adjust the situation to suit. And the cost of housing these prisoners is unbelievable so who would pay for that if they were to come from another Country?
@omgsmellthis (27)
• United States
1 Feb 07
This is truly interesting. But do explain to me why wouldn't the build additional prisons? Or is it cheaper to outsource and pay someone else to watch your felons?
I would also assume they wouldn't ship off the light hearted criminals. It would seem to me that the ones that need to be housed for multiple offenses over a few years would be the better choice.
If I had a loved one in prison for such an offensive act, I'd deal with not seeing them & letting them get the help/rehab that they may need (that is saying that they would get some sort of help). Letters are a wonderful way to stay in touch.
1 person likes this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Somehow I cannot see this happening at all caramello, although it could be a nice little money earner for Australia, if we played our cards right that is. I am sure that many prisoners would willingly come here if they knew how good it is in our prisons. LOL
In my opinion it is a load of codswallop but does make good newsprint, although that is about all. :)
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
I think that they will actually have to built more prisons or possible buy ships to accommodate them offshore omgsmellthis, because I cannot see any Commonwealth Country taking prisoners of another nation. I cannot see that they will end up here in Australia because we don't have enough room for our own, so where would we put those belonging to another country.
It is something that makes good newsprint on an otherwise quite day in my opinion. :)
@AskAlly (3625)
• Canada
1 Feb 07
It has always been my understanding that the "criminals" that colonized Australia 200 years ago were mostly the poor. Often they had been caught stealing bread to feed starving families. Or they were poor debtors unable to pay debts or fines levied against them.
I feel that the type of criminal that Tony Blair would like to ship downunder may well be accused of something other than being poor or stealing bread.
As a Canadian and fellow colonist of the British realm I say "Up yer ar$e" to that notion.
Not only that, but I could not imagine one of my family members being shippped of to serve a sentence in another country. It's not cheap to visit y'all down there.
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
You are right AskAlly that most of those who were transported here 200+ years ago were poor and often imprisoned for very minor things. Most of them made good too and worked till they obtained a free pardon. I think this is just a pipe dream and possibly a joke made by some politician. But of course the media picked up on it and it went from there, solely due to being a slow news day I suspect.
Australians would probably have the same reaction to this idea as you, only we are generally not so polite about it, regardless of who is saying it. :)
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
1 Feb 07
It sounds like Britian is going backwards in time. I read historical novel about the colonizing of Australia With prisoner and so called criminals. They were using ships as jails back then too. It seems to me that these smart politician could come up with a better way of dealing with criminals. Times are getting worse as the population keeps going up and I don't think it is going to get any batter. It makes me think abouta civen cosner movie "Water World" I've been wondering how close to the truth those type movies are to reality of our future.
2 people like this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Hi deebomb, I cannot actually see this happening in this day and age, although it was how Australia was colonised but that was over 200 years ago now.
I think it was just a quiet news time and so somebody thought this might boost sales of newspapers that weekend. We have no room for our own criminals, so there would not be enough for "imports".
@wepay2 (346)
• Australia
2 Feb 07
it will not be allowed
many of the english would die here from heat
it has been over 35 celcius today and it is going to get warmer like about 38+ for a few days in a row with nearly no humidity
we are in a draught and cannot afford to waste water on anyones scum
1 person likes this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
It will not happen, regardless of the heat, because Australia's immigration laws do not allow people with a criminal conviction to enter the country. :)
It is Sunday now actually and today in southern NSW the temperature reached 43 degrees, which is too warm for me let alone someone who has never known this weather before.
@hopefoo (1145)
• Malaysia
2 Feb 07
I've always thought that the convicts that got sent to Australia are really lucky people. Even if they weren't their offsprings were. Australia is a beautiful country, best of both worlds. Everyone's super friendly, everyone's super helpful. They're all very honorable hardworking fun loving happy go lucky people. I totally love that about the Australians and the country itself. Everything's so laid back.
Of course 200 years ago, they'd just deport them to the country and they ended up finding gold and built their own administration; which I must say works very well.
I guess now it isn't that great a news for the prisoners or for Australia. Are they allowed to that? Send them to Australian prisons? Australia has to house the UK's prisoners? Is there an agreement? Is Australia require to house them?
1 person likes this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Actually this is just a poor joke by some politician about overcrowing in British jails, and on a slow news day, the newspaper printed it. Australia cannot be forced to take a prisoner of another country, and also our immigration laws now do not allow anyone with a criminal conviction to enter this country. No, they will not be coming here, although as you say those who came here 200 years ago did very well once they earned their freedom.
@gappman (14)
• United States
2 Feb 07
Omigosh! I thought the subject was Transporting Criminals to Another CENTURY! I know it's Groundhog Day and all, but I'm sure I would have heard before now if time travel were possible.
Never mind, then. My bad.
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
It will not happen and I suspect that it was some poor joke made by a British politician, picked up by the newspaper on a bad news day and that is it. Australia is a part of the Commonwealth but also independant plus we do have a democratically elected government. In addition, our immigration laws now do not allow anyone with a criminal conviction to enter the country. Looks like the prisoners will stay freezing in the UK, instead of enjoying our warm climate. :)
1 person likes this
@vekyengineer (1079)
• India
1 Feb 07
Transporting criminals is so hard. This situation is briefly discrbied by the CONAIR film. The film is so much interesting. Here they transport criminals from one country to another country and in on the way they will try to escape. Bringing back the criminals to the prison is the film concept.
@SunlightSwoon (1060)
• United States
2 Feb 07
From what I read, if the sentencing is excessive, maybe that is where they need to start making changes. And if crime is out of control, maybe more prisons is an option that they can't ignore. But I have a question, once they have served there time, in what country would they be released...SS
1 person likes this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
They won't be coming here at all, because our immigration laws now would prohibit it. Also the prisons here are State run and immigration is Federal Government. The prisons here are full anyway, with our own plus those we will send back to their own country once they complete their sentences that is. :)
@kathy77 (7486)
• Australia
1 Feb 07
Really I was not aware of this, I do believe that everyone that breaks the law that they should go home to where they were born and lose their nationality there even here in Australia they should do this, why should any country their tax payers pay for these criminals, and yes they do need to build more jails for their prisioners and so do we to keep them locked up.
1 person likes this
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Actually kathy I cannot see it happening and think that it was just a bad news day, so this is what we ended up with. Can you honestly see Australia accepting prisoners from another country? I cannot plus prisons here in Australia are state based, not federal. The other thought is that it could be a good money earner for Australia, if we worked out the charges per prisoner correctly. :)
@Wanderlaugh (1622)
• Australia
10 Feb 07
This might not be the right time to mention this, but I was wondering; can we send a few of the convicts back now? It's getting a bit crowded, and we need the parking.
A new supply of Pommy criminals could be said to be overdoing the rehash a bit. Did it occur to them to shop around a bit, or are we the natural choice?
Interesting figure, though. Their population is something like a thousand times the number of jail places. Optimism, or is the Old Dart getting lazy?
Building more jails might not be practical, I suppose. Why not park prison hulks around the island, for that festive look, and attract tourists? They did that in the 19th century, so it's probably in line with best practice.
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
11 Feb 07
Australia does actually deport non-citizens who are convicted of a serious offence, after they have served their sentence that is. However a citizen, natural born or naturalised, cannot be deported.
Someone suggested that they could be put into central Australia but that could cause more problems, since most of them would not survive the heat. Then their rellies would sue the butt of the Australian Government.
Thanks for the laugh and I particularly like the comment about the prisons being built to attract tourists. That makes sense to me, as it would mean they could gain additional income to fund even more prisons. :)
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Now that makes sense, and in fact I think that the English prisoners will be staying there in England. We have no room for them here in Australia plus our immigration laws do not allow people with a criminal conviction to enter the country. Lots of changes in the last 200 years here in Australia but it seems that the English are still having problems with their prisoner numbers. LOL
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
9 Feb 07
Somehow... I cannot see the Australian people accepting convicts from England. It would be enough to completely break our ties with England and become a Republic.
As for England... I think the simple solution is to deport any immigrant charged with his first criminal offence. Don't send him to jail to punish him. Just deport him. Forget about revenge and punishment.
I reckon that this would be a much better deterrent than any jail sentence. People would think twice about committing a crime if they really want to stay in England.
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
11 Feb 07
Actually it will not happen at all and it appears that they do deport any non-citizen who is convicted of a major offence, once they have served their sentence. A lot of countries, including Australia, do the same but you cannot deport a citizen, even one who is naturalised.
More appropriate would be to release those who are in prison for petty offences, like not paying parking tickets. That would free up some space and give the British time to build some new prisons. :)
@elavarashan (56)
• India
2 Feb 07
what is the best solution is ask them to fight against the countries where war is goin on. the people who survive after the war can be set free or otherwise can be sent to figth another war
@onabreak2 (1161)
• United States
2 Feb 07
Sounds like a good idea to me. Only would probably be a better idea to send them to a third world country and make them work there with a ball and chain on.
@fiyahcreation (2140)
• United States
2 Feb 07
this may very wll be the beginning of a norm, outlaws are just crazy nowaday, and jail isn't a dterrent for them. we may have to start transferring prisoners to other countries, how sad
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
2 Feb 07
I work as a teacher in one of the full prisons you are discussing, and rest assured my friend whatever the news stories may be saying we have no plans to send our surplace prisoners to your country. We tried that once, it didnt work, they were better at running the country than us.
In reality, if they did use another country, I think it would be a European country because of the free exchange of population between member states. Of course, the alternative, and much more likely, is to build more prisons.
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Actually I think this was just a poor joke by some British politician and picked up by the media on a slow news day. Of course it will not happen and one reason is that today the Australian immigration laws do not allow for people with criminal convictions to enter the country. Personally I cannot see that the Australian Government changing that law for anyone, regardless. Of course what it means is that Britan has to look at those who are imprisoned, perhaps release some of them for "minor" offences and get their act into gear and build more prisons. :)
@Bangalorean (1282)
• India
2 Feb 07
hey, i dont understand as to why we need more prisons. Instead of building new prisons cant we attempt to reform the society to reduce crime.
@pclife (246)
• Malaysia
2 Feb 07
I Think transporting criminals to another country will not change anything ,crimes will still active, also adding more prisons will only increase government cost . So, the most vital point , that should be concentrated is that how to prevent crimes from happening , if we just thinking about adding prisons , transferring prisoners & so & so... crime will still continue & at later time we just do the same thing... UNtil when this will stop ?...
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Of course it will not change anything at all, which is another reason why it will not happen. Also the immigration laws of Australia now do not allow anyone with a criminal record to enter the country. Just a poor joke from some British politician, I suspect, and then taken up by the newspaper on a bad news day. :)
@richardjames (166)
•
2 Feb 07
Living in the UK but being an Australian I hadn't yet picked up on this news story. I'm sure the British tabloids will have a field day with a sensitive issue such as sending prisoners to Australia. And we all know the tabloids are a very sensitive lot, really.
Blair was 'tough on crime, touch on the causes of crime', just a shame he forgot to be tough on the housing of criminals..
@ossie16d (11821)
• Australia
4 Feb 07
Actually I suspect that this was just a joke by some poor Pommie politician and it was picked up by the newspaper on a bad news day. As you are probably aware our laws here in Australia do not allow anyone with a criminal conviction to enter the country, so it is hard to believe they would accept this sort of thing. Also the prisons are State issues, not Federal Government, so where would these prisoners be put. We do not have the room for our own criminals, so guess it means that the English are just going to have to build some more prisons. :)
