Who is the Lier: Jesus, John the Baptist or Gospel writer?

On all versions of the Bible, it was understood that Jesus was referring to John- http://bible.cc/matthew/17-13.htm

If there is no contradiction then can u explain what Jesus is suggesting at Matthew 17:13 for your kindness can u please read the message from the top till end which i started. it is very clear that Jesus called John the Baptist to be the Elijah which the Jews inquiring But on the contrary John the Baptist refused his identity as Elijah. I don't understand how you relate things when it is Cristal clear. I knew few of my friends, at the back of their subconscious mind, they have an idea that what they believe is Right, even after reading in simple baby English.

"I dont think decent people should use such a degrading word to describe people mentioned in the Holy Bible" I humbly apologise for ur heartache. BUT I must say that its not my words, its a borrowod terms from Bible scholars. let me list them: "Christ Crucified - Hoax or History?" no doubts it sounds provocative, but it is christian's own extravagances from his own vocabulary. Garner Ted Armstrong, The Executive Vice-President & Co-Publisher of the 'Plain Truth' attempts to answer his own puzzle under the heading: Was the Resurrection a HOAX? this is the typical American way of selling religious magazine. He elucidates his pose -'Hoax?' with the words, "The resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is EITHER the supreme Fact of History OR a Flagrant, Delibrate Fabrication Foisted off on the followers of Christianity." Another person 'Billy Graham', from America, Josh McDowell effuses in his boob "The Resurrection Factor", saying "I was forced to the conclusion that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is EITHER one of the most wicked, Heartless, Vicious, Hoaxes ever foisted upon the minds of men OR it is the most fantastic FACT of History" sinse it is not possible for an Oriental guy like me to match American superlative & Extravagant verbiage. I simply said who is the LIER?

we can't underestimate anyone like this my friend. u know it is very interesting and surprise that every Christian believe differently they may belong to same church they may belong to same denomination, they the other will say, I don't believe so n so things. Its my experience in my life, I believe each Christian is Unique in this belief and faith

what is my belief? what U know of it? have I ever said anything abot jihad being Holy war.. or atleast mere WAR? my answer NO The word Jihad does NOT mean 'Holy War' Jihad means effort or endeours against man's own self. a student does Jihad to pass his school exams [jihad here implies - struggle and effort of student on studies] "Fight in the way of God AGAINST those who fight against you; and do NOT exceed limits, surely God does not love aggressor[Quran 2:190] [the word for FIGHT used here in Arabic is QitAl not JihAd] did I ever said anywhere that women r slaves? moreso does Islams says anywhere that women have no rights? my answer NO women can participates in goverment [Quran 9:71] (and U know still the Jews are calling for conference to discuss if the women should be allowed to give voting rights or not) Do all Muslims believe that its is right to fly airplanes into buildings? my answer NO Do you have any evidence or solid proof to prove your claim that some muslims did it. Don't thow red herrings my religion do NOT permitt me to Blame anyone without proof, if Your religion Permits you to call all Muslims to be Criminal: I wonder what kind of religion is that? Does Islam rcognize any kind of innocet Killings? If any human kill someone, its as thou he killed whole mankind and if someone save a life, its as thou he saved whole mankind [Quran 5:32] U alleged so many things without any proof to stand urself nd I refuted all with quote from Quran. will u allow me to say something about your Christian God, and lets see how far HE withstand your last word "God of Compassion & Love" I will not just say tat someone said or news channel says i will Quote from Bible.... shall I

What happened to your level headed approached profound2me?. Sure Jihad can mean a struggle, but Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) means's holy war. Quran 9:71 says nothing about women in goverment. I'm not actually sure what it does mean. However 4:34 is pretty telling about womans rights... Quran 5:32 does mention about not killing people, but the very next verse 5:33 says its ok to kill for doing mischief in the land. (Thats pretty vague isn't it???)

Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying that you need to study yourself, not blindly believe what you are told? If you are I totally agree with you there! :)

Dear comedyaddict, could u please give the verse refrences to ur explaination, its like i m getting confused with gospel of John and John the baptist.. please be specific so I can understand thanks

I agree with you bro. Studying the bible singlehandedly and not inquiring on theologians then asking those kinds of questions is simply more like finding weaknesses in other religions. BTW if youre interested in understanding the bible, you can ask theologians the right questions not like if anyone is lying - it will simply continue the unending argument of who has the true religion.

If there is any mistake, it's that we too often read what we want to read. If you look at it in the context I outline in my post above, it makes sense that no one is lying. :)

SNDCAIN: Which Bible U talking about: Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the Moody bible Institute, Chichago, one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world, answeing the Question - 'Is the Bible word of GOD?' IT IS HUMAN YET DIVINE , he says on page 17: Yes, The Bible is Human, though some, out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed throu the minds of Men, are written in the language of Men, were penned by the hands of Men and bear in their stlye the characteristics of Men. Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, 'The Call of the Minaret' "Not so the New Testament... there is condensation and Editing; there is Choice, reporduction and witness. The Gospels have come thru the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and History." If words have any MEANING, do we need to add another word of comment to prove our case? NO! Both this Doctors of Religion are telling us in the clearest language Humanly possible that the Bible is the handiwork of man. all the while pretending that they are proving to the contrary. An Old Arab saying goes: "If Such are the Priests, God Bless the Congregation."

Thank you very much for your honestly to admit atleast that there is a discrepency or error. But pleace its my humble request, never ever think that Jesus could give a false Verdict and I can also say the same to John the Baptist Both are annointed[chosen] men of God. Easily i can accept the mistake of the Gospel writer... but not in the least bit, can attribute such errors to Jesus or John the moment I believe that Jesus can do mistakes, I will b called Muslim No more, my religion teach about Jesus like this

when i was a student, my teacher said, there is always two way to approach a book: one is concordis approach another is conflict approch and being an Oriental or a Muslim: nevertheless, i must admit, mostly I use conflict approch while reading Bible. But I never intend to Invent LIE by any of the Jewish prophets or more specificly in the words of JESUS. I really can't understand why John has to deny in accepting that he is Elijah: when he baptize Jesus, he is the one to recognize Jesus as the long awaited Messiah and Jesus accepted. why John the Baptist deny being called Elijah. It is very clear that the Jews who r inquiring they, NO doubt awaiting an answer so that they can REPORT to one who send them. and what more intresting is the Christian world so far never identified that the Interogator is asking 3 question not Jesus Elijah or Jesus.. they also asked: "are thou That Prophet?" one one cross refrence bible, at this 'that prophet' it shows Deo [18:18] so this means, the Jews were expection Elijah to come before Messiah and they were also expecting some prophet to fulfil Deu 18:18

I m not able to understand the meaning .. what u trying to say? I m sorry my english is not so good, did U mean that the Jews were expecting only Messiah and they were not expecting any Elijah b4 Messiah? or u trying to say .. Messiah and Elijah both r the titles for Jesus? please clear, thank U

No no, i meant that Elijah can be treated as just a title and not an actual name of a person. In this case, Elijah is the name given to the prophet who comes before the savior. Of course, John the Baptist might not have declared that he is Elijah since it would make him too self-righteous or arrogant if you will. Jesus denied that he is Elijah because he is the one who came to be our Messiah. Derailing a bit, from what I remember, the Jews counted Jesus as just a prophet coz they were expecting someone like King David or the likes to be the savior. Please, correct me if I'm wrong about this. =)

NO doubt, the holy book should read with understanding and with context. and so I didnt pick one verse and pose the argument.. did u see But its an amazing situation: Jesus says He is Elijah in simple language, and his disciples understood. when the Jews asked John, He refuted and said NO he is not Elijah. now u telling me, to understand what Jesus and John meant in their words I should go and ask PAUL... Really its an amazing situation.

I can understand what u referring in OT : when God said yeheye ashar yeheye : "I am! what I am" by the way what this has to do with the subject we dealing here?