Removing the blinkers of blind faith
By Thomas73
@Thomas73 (1467)
Switzerland
February 11, 2007 7:37am CST
The following is an article published in the New Scientist with the title "Christian faith in the other good book". I found it quite interesting in the way that it seems to reconcile believers with the facts of evolution, and also shows that you can have faith without being a blind sheep taking the so-called 'holy' texts at face value. So here goes:
Flocks of the Christian faithful in the US will this Sunday hold special services celebrating Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. The idea is to stand up to creationism, which claims the biblical account of creation is literally true, and which is increasingly being promoted under the guise of "intelligent design". Proponents of ID say the universe is so complex it must have been created by some unnamed designer.
Support for "Evolution Sunday" has grown 13 per cent to 530 congregations this year, from the 467 that celebrated the inaugural event last year. Organisers see it as increasing proof that Christians are comfortable with evolution.
"For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science," says Michael Zimmerman, founder of Evolution Sunday and dean of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences at Butler University in Indianapolis. "We're saying you can have your faith, and you can also have science."
Zimmerman and his backers believe the biblical account of creation is allegorical. "Creationists fear that if you believe evolution, you're an atheist," he says. But for Zimmerman, attempts to try and "ratify God's existence" through intelligent design signify lack of faith. "If you have enough faith, you don't need science to prove God exists, and science can't prove this anyway," he says.
The event arose from the Clergy Letter Project, a pro-evolution letter signed in 2004 by 10,500 Christian clergy. It is spreading internationally, and this year will also be celebrated in Australia, the UK, Canada and Nigeria. Seven publishers are donating material for the services.
Any comments on this?
10 people like this
17 responses
@xphile777 (427)
• United States
11 Feb 07
I wholly agree with Zimmerman. It's about time that Christians who not only have faith but have common sense and know the (real) history of the Bible speak up.
I'm not religous (religions are man-made and sorely flawed) but I am spiritual and believe in God/Higher Power/Whatever you want to call It. I've never had a problem with believing in both science and spirituality.
The ignorance of religious fundamentalists who refuse to educate themselves and broaden their minds are not using the intelligence that God gave them. That's a slap in the face to God and an embarrassment to mankind.
@Melizzy (1381)
• United States
12 Feb 07
I agree with my dear friend Xphile 777. I consider myself a bit of a science geek and I am religious. I believe evolution occurred/is occurring as we speak. How can I do that? Easy, for me it is God's way of doing things. You can not deny science and that science must come from somewhere/some one. And I'm ok with my beliefs.
@sigma77 (5383)
• United States
11 Feb 07
I am at the point where I don't care how the universe was created or who created it. I don't care how man got here. As far as I can see, unless there is some "event of biblical proportions" we will never be 100% sure of the existence of a God. You either accept it or you don't.
No matter how man arrived or how the universe was created, the fact is that we are here. God might have been responsible for either type of creation, evolution or the Adam and Eve story.
If every person on earth believes in evolution, it changes nothing and proves nothing. If every person on earth believes in God, it does not prove anything. I accept the existence of some kind of Infinite Intelligence and that I am somehow connected to it. That is all I need to know. I don't care about religion or evolution because to me they both are a waste of energy.
So, I believe in my connection to the Infinite and that the universe is whole and good. It is a waste of life to dislike or hate or attempt to always figure out the unknown(is there a God). No organization is going to tell me how or what I can or should believe in. It does not make sense to argue the point. I chose to live in a state of happiness and prosperity. Why live any other way and be miserable?
@sunshinecup (7871)
•
11 Feb 07
I say that all makes since to me and it's fine and dandy. However doesn’t leave a person like me, those that don't believe either idea, any where to go. I have no group to stand with, I am so lonely, LOL. Now there is a chance that both creationist and evolutionist may banned together? Great, just great, now all we need do is to figure out a way of blending Scientology in as well and then I will really be isolated. :-)
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
11 Feb 07
I studied both, and found both are theories or beliefs, both of which present themselves as the final proven authority, but which is not true, so actually we are left with our own intellect, searching, studying and discovering. But how many take time to actually study both theories? I've never been one to blindly follow the 'authorities'. Mankind has been wrong way too often for that, even in this great enlightened age..
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
11 Feb 07
P.S. here's the summary of my discoveries (in case anyone might be interested, it's basically a page - cuz I'm pretty good at summarizing:)
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/dancer911/articles5/evolution.html
1 person likes this
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
12 Feb 07
After reading this discussion... I only want to make a couple of comments....
"Berlinlife" tell us that it does not matter where we come from. From a personal point of view... that is true... as we all know one thing for certain... we are not here for very long... and we are all going to die anyway.
But the fact of the matter is that it matters very much to find out where we come from. Because the only way to achieve harmony on this planet is for all its people to believe in one and the same thing. If we can prove that God exist... or don't exist... it does not matter which one... then we can all move on with our life and plan for the future without having half the population holding us back because they don't agree with the other half.
After all... we have a billion Christians and a billion Muslems. What about the remaining 4 billions? Do they count for anything?
"Bestofmoneyonline" tells us that atheists doubt everything. It is not so much about doubting. We simply don't believe it unless you can prove it. We want hard facts. Religion presents everything on "faith". Faith explain everything that religion cannot explain.
Atheists have no faith in anything. In the 21st century... only a fool would have faith in anything... as it is the surest way to be rob, cheated and double-crossed. The scumbags of this world loves a guy who has faith in them.
1 person likes this
@Thomas73 (1467)
• Switzerland
12 Feb 07
I was interested in the "it doesn't matter where we come from, we're here now" attitude. Berlinlife is an American living in Germany, Aussies2007 is French but lives now in Australia. Aren't still glad to know where you come from?
I am myself an expatriate and I'm someohow happy to know where my roots are (or were).
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
12 Feb 07
Somehow you lost me here...
Who cares where I come from?
I thought we were talking about the big picture.
1 person likes this
@unusualsuspect (2602)
• United States
11 Feb 07
It's very encouraging that more xtians are speaking out against extremism and giving their support to science, but it's not going to change the minds of fundamentalists or persuade them to change their agendas. I think that both atheists and moderate religionists make a mistake in thinking that facts are going affect these people. They don't operate on facts, but on emotion. They're perfectly capable of compartmentalizing and simply denying even the most horrendous facts about religion.
2 people like this
@Thomas73 (1467)
• Switzerland
11 Feb 07
In religion, like in politics, extremism is becoming increasingly worrying -- mostly in a civilisation that has more and more means to discover and interpret facts instead of following old tales and taking them for granted. Anything that can be done to prevent us from sliding into a new Dark Age is positive, in my opinion.
4 people like this
@spiderman05 (851)
• Canada
11 Feb 07
This is a very interesting discussion. I am not a religious person. My opinion about the question "Is there a God?" is that this problem is undecidable (using some computer science lingo here). It means that, I will never be able one day to prove the existence of God and I will never be able to refute it. Life is too short, and spending time dealing with such problems is just a waste of energy.
Creationism is based on some tales from the bible. Many of these tales originated from poems that were found in Sumeria (south of actual Iraq) and that go back to at least 3000 years BC. I am astonished that some people still believe in those naive tales in 21st century, like God creating Adam from clay. These civilizations used clay to build their shelters, statutes, pots...and they were just assuming that God had to use the same material to create man. I don't know about you, but I think that this is a naive view of creation, to say the least.
Evolution is supported by some verifiable facts. I do not adhere to evolution 100%, but I think that it is more likely than the bible tales.
All religions convey some good values meant to help people organize their lives. Unfortunately, some people get intoxicated by these religions and are ready to fight and die to defend their beliefs.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
11 Feb 07
I wondered about this myself, so I thought I'd do some scientific study, afterall why scrap one theory for another, without knowing exactly what the two theories say. I've never been one to blindly follow the 'authorities'. First thing that surprised me was that there are scientists who do not believe the theory of evolution. I wasn't aware there were any! Imagine my surprise when I next found out there are a handful of ways of dating the earth which suggest a millions of years existence, but there's seventy plus other ways of dating the earth which suggest much shorter time, and some the mere thousands that the bible records! But! You can't tell people this, they blindly believe the state enforced religion/theory. And most christians don't know about this either, but say silly things like the dinosaurs never existed.. And all the while the bible describes the dinosaur more than any other animal! - "..the bohemoth who swings a tail which is like the mighty cedar" - this has been interpreted as being an elephant.. puh-lease.. But I continued my study anyway, which I don't post so much for atheists, God bless 'em, let 'em keep the faith they want, but I post it for christians - I've learned even more facts since this study, but haven't added them yet..
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/dancer911/articles5/evolution.html
It was actually quite overwhelming, and I still can't get over it :))
1 person likes this
@tarachand (3895)
• India
12 Feb 07
Human knowledege and awareness are as yet incomplete, but I do believe that science and observations may one day have answers to the unexplanable that is/has been attributed to God by humans.
As an outsider - I am not from the US or belong to any of the various Christian faiths and sects, it is good to know that science, Darwinism is slowly being accepted by some of the churches, even if only to fight science with scinece.
1 person likes this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
11 Feb 07
I was fortunate enough to come in contact with the teachings of Teillhard de Chardin in my college days and his teachings reconcilled evolution and religion so beautifully that I've never had a problem with it. I think there are not many with backgrounds like he had in both science and religion.
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
12 Feb 07
It came to mind that as I read this article, imagine a civilization and advanced civilization that made statues and in time became anhilated, natural disaster or disease whatever. This once budding community growing in knowledge disapears.
Other humans survive the time of tribulation and come upon the ruins, look a man made of stone or clay or Earth, these people look at each other and back to the statue. Indeed this must be how we were created.
A long time ago one of our forefathers tried to make up a story about a statue and that story became the story of creation.
What did they know?
1 person likes this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
12 Feb 07
Thanks for posting this. It is a small but very real sign of progress. Human knowledge has been hard won and I am glad to see them accepting reality, not the myth some Bronze Age tribesmen cane up with to try to explain what they didn't know.
1 person likes this
@crickethear (1417)
• United States
12 Feb 07
I look at it as a postive. People are becoming more spiritual, and getting away, from the "typical" old time beliefs. That can only work so long. There is more to life, then this just one life. I can't believe that this life is the only life we have. We aren't ready to leave here, and suddenly go to heaven where everything is perfect, and we become perfect. If that were the case, then why didn't God just make us perfect. We are here to learn and grow and develop into Gods plan. The Bible is our reference, and we are to use it to learn from it. Christians do think that if you believe in Evolution, you are an atheist. I am the furthest thing away from an atheist, however, I believe in evolution, in that we go through it to grow, and reach perfection. Perfection is earned, not granted. The power of God, and his love in the Ultimate plan is more then I can express. I am happy that people are awakening. Hopefully with more and more, it will express itself the way God intended. Thank you for the post.
1 person likes this
@cooldudes472000 (36)
• Saudi Arabia
12 Feb 07
Science is a form of wisdom coming from GOd, though there are some conflicts,but can we imagined if GOd did not allow Science to prospher, we don't have technology like these now, no cellphone, tv, internet, mylot, life could be really really boring, WE cannot really fathom the mind of GOD, who really knows where we came from..but one Good thing is we have created in the image of GOD..and like him we tend to be perfect..In either way how he created us, whether in evolution or what like the or the book Genesis say..it is the present which is much important..
@stibigirl (291)
• United States
19 Feb 07
I agree with you that this is an extremely important step in the right direction, the people who have the faith are really the ones that must recognize the situation. For me the absolute of religion has always been unappealing, luckily I was not raised to believe anything imparticular (but instead to accept all), and when I was 17 I took a comparative religion class to try and figure some of the religious principals out on my own. I found that the only satisfaction that I ever got from answers to any questions that I ever asked about life was through science. This really is only the beginnings of change, I think this acceptance will makes a big difference within peoples minds (at least over generations), at least it points to the change that can begin.
@owens07 (325)
• Puerto Rico
20 Feb 07
All they'd be doing as you have done is substituting one faith for another.
" It is therefore of immediate concern to both biologist and lawman that Darwin is under attack.The theory of life that undermined nineteenth century religion HAS VIRTUALLY BECOME A RELIGION ITSELF and in turn is being threatened by fresh ideas. THE ATTACKS ARE CERTAINLY NOT LIMITED TO THOSE OF CREATIONISTS AND RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS who deny Darwin for political and moral reasons. THE MAIN THRUST OF THE CRITICISM COMES FROM WITHIN SCIENCE ITSELF. The doubts about Darwinism represent a political revolt from withing rather than a siege from without." B. Leith, The Decent of Darwin: The Handbook of Doubts about Darwinism (1982)p. 11
@owens07 (325)
• Puerto Rico
12 Feb 07
The hypocrisy is just mind - boggling. Darwinists who celebrate their commitment to absolute materialism, feel no qualms whatsoever about invading the Christian realm to recruit useful idiots from among the "liberal" American clergy to do their indoctrinating from the pulpit, just as American eugenicists [Darwinists all] recruited "liberal" American clergy proxies to preach eugenics on their behalf.
The evolution Sunday travesty will fail abysmally because the useful idiots will be preaching to the choir, not to the traditional Judeo- Christians who aren't fooled by the Darwinists'propaganda any more than they were taken in by the eugenicists's propaganda
@owens07 (325)
• Puerto Rico
18 Feb 07
Enlightenment? Do you really think those pastors understand the debate or they just buying into a theory to gain popularity amongst those they wish to draw into their congregation. More people more money in the offering plate!
