Do you or somebody you know claim to be a Wiccan?
By tangible
@tangible (60)
United States
February 15, 2007 3:02pm CST
How many times have you or someone else you know have claimed to be a Wiccan? This is actually a bit of a peeve of mine. I have been a Wiccan for some time now (LOL) and had the privelage of coming to The Craft through folks who had been at it some decades before I was even a twinkle in the eye, so my personal definition of what makes a person "Wiccan" or not seems to be at variance against what is popularly concieved or concocted by so-called "authorities";o)
I posted this a while back on my blog (http://www.blogxero.com/member/tangible/200701127519.php).
That post described how a "measure Wiccan-ess". Take a look at consider that each idea or element of "measure" is in fact true to form and fact for the earliest WICCAN paths exposed to us some fifty plus years ago (NOT what some people like to claim about Wicca, but what we actually know about it and CAN PROVE). They are principally Gardnerian ideas, but in certain instances I present them more generically to avoid confusion in concept.
So, do you or anyone you know who claims to be a Wiccan demonstrate/believe in each and all of these ideas - in some form - or are any void? And if any are missing, why do you or they still consider it Wicca?
5 people like this
18 responses
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
15 Feb 07
first off thanks lecanis for reposting the link LOL greatly appreciated :-D
now on to your questions...
So, do you or anyone you know who claims to be a Wiccan demonstrate/believe in each and all of these ideas - in some form - or are any void?
- honestly I think that very few believe/demonstrate/follow any of them TRULY...I find in many cases ppl do fall under the "Wicca today" that you mentioned and in all honesty that even includes many authors who have claimed to be this that and the other for millions of yrs and flash their little "badges" High Priest/Priestdom expecting others to bow before them as the all knowing all being blah blah blah...I'm sorry if that offends anyone but that is in fact how i feel and I think that is one of the KEY reasons why "Wicca" sours me the way it does...AND I will readily admit that when I first learned the names to things I'd been believe ever since I can remember I picked up every book I could get my hand on and I was guilty of falling into the commercialized Wiccan web so to speak...within a yr though i realized that I wasnt being true to what I'd lived my whole life above any other religion by letting myself fall into that trap...which is why I walked away and started back to what was right for me...So all that (remember "babblefest") being said I think its very rare to find a TRUE believer I guess you could say....I think alot of times unfortunately its for "show" even if only partially...
have I lost ya? am I makin any sense? LOL Probably not knwoing me LOL
And if any are missing, why do you or they still consider it Wicca?
- because ppl feel for whatever reason the need to label themselves and those around them....I personally hate that..I cant stand being labeled or having to label myself for the benefit of others so they understand me/my position better (usually only online is this necessary) I also think ppl these days have a terrible need to feel like they "belong" to something so they tack labels on themselves in order to fit in or feel like they belong maybe.....tis a sad reality really and I am very glad that at a young enough age I got rid of that mindset (in my 20s) and got very comfortable with me ya know....now I'm on my way to 40 and very comfortable with myself so I have no need to "fit in" and really I dont want to ya know....unfortunately though many do and sometimes it lasts a lifetime
DAMN IT!! ok I'm tryin to post and keep my mind on track but between the kids, the dogs, being freezing cold and my husband just getting home I cant keep a thought in my head to save my damn life LOL
sorry if my post is all jumblie *shuffles off flustered* LOL
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
15 Feb 07
*laughs* You are just too funny!I know what you mean about the "commercialized Wiccan web". I grew up with "pagan" beliefs, thanks to my great-grandmother who taught me, but I had a very hard time finding anything genuinely Celtic for a while. It seemed everything out there said "Wiccan" on it, even the things that had more to do with other forms of paganism (Celtic, Asatru, Kemetic, Hellenic, etc) than with Wicca. Drove me bonkers.
I have known some well-read, well-educated, intelligent Wiccans, who could explain exactly what they believed and why. They seem to be in the minority, but then people like that seem to be in the minority of every religion. lol
@tangible (60)
• United States
15 Feb 07
Don't apologize, I think you are hitting the nail pretty close to the head, and I agree 100%.
In fact, I think you might be onto something clearer there too: I wonder if it really is self labeling to fit in, and when someone -like myself - comes wearing that label and suggests fakery on their part, they coil up and get defensive.. 'I'm wrong, not them'... LOL
At times, as we grow as Wiccans (and I sure any spiritual or religious course) I think all of us reach a point where we wonder if our "label" really suits who we are and what we believe. In my post, the measures I mentioned I still hold true for myself today, but my interpretations and understanding of Wicca has changed, adapted, and grown with me... so I base those core ideas to identify what is "Wiccan".
Though I must admit, I wonder sometimes if I am doing myself an injustice by not simply throwing the banner aside and letting the dogs of war and strife bicker about the name ;o) LOL Until I make up my mind however, I will hold the label proudly, and reserve its integrity to the best of my ability. Plus, it makes good fodder for the green Wiccans who unwittingly prvide us/me/someone with a great deal of entertainment when they get all huffy about this or that ;o) LOL (Kidding... maybe...)
1 person likes this
@tangible (60)
• United States
15 Feb 07
HAHAHA! SOOOO TRUUUUE! GEEZE, I THINK I QUIT BREATHING WHEN I READ THAT! HAHAHAHA! You are absolutely right... and why do people associate Wicca with any and every other form of Paganism? LOL... that has always stumped me. Or better yet, why does everyone try to lump every other form of Paganism into Wicca? LOL... its Bluckland's and Conway's faults I tell you... Hahahahaha!
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
15 Feb 07
I tried to copy and paste the link but it didnt come up for me so I have to respond without having seen your blog..
I'm not Wiccan but I am a Witch and have been for some time myself..I'm actually not a fan of Wicca at all to be perfectly honest with you simply because life to me isnt all pleasant and good shall we say...because of that fact and the fact that I am human with sometimes not so pleasant emotions..Wicca just doesnt mix with me, for me personally of course....Just like I'm sure some of my ways dont and wont mix for others which is actually how i prefer it LOL..
in any case I'd like to answer your actual questions but like I said I cant read the blog damn it... :-D
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
15 Feb 07
I found it just by going back to blogxero, searching for tangible, and then looking for the post. The link was just typed in here wrong it looks like. I found it at:
http://www.blogxero.com/member/tangible/200701125719
Now I just hope I typed it correctly, seeing as I can't copy and paste.
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
15 Feb 07
"Wicca doesn't really enspouse that idea anyway. I think that is another one of those gross misconceptions a lot of people have about us."
yea and there are definately a lot of them I'm sure but man let me tell ya I've been in so many bloody arguements with "Wiccans" over the yrs because I dont 'follow the Rede' and I dont do this dont do that etc etc but the reality is this.....My path is just that MINE...its is geared by me, specifically for me and always has been even before I'd ever heard the word Pagan for that matter...I dont expect or preach to anyone on how to life their life let alone their spiritual one ya know...I know what my personal path has done for me so when ppl try to come at me with both barrels (be it Wiccans, Christians, Buddhists etc etc) it becomes a thorn in my side LOL and a big nasty one at that..(yea I'll admit it LOL)....ANYWAY (sorry i tend to go off into babblefests LOL)
Okay so now I shall go and read your blog...:-D
@tangible (60)
• United States
15 Feb 07
Yep, mistyped, thanks for getting that link in here.
As a Wiccan I can honestly say that we don't think life is always pleasant and good either ;o)
Wicca doesn't really enspouse that idea anyway. I think that is another one of those gross misconceptions a lot of people have about us. LOL
Thanks for the response, and if you do get a chance to check out the post I would love to hear what you think ;o)
@pendragon (3348)
• United States
16 Feb 07
The only "Wiccan" I know is a fake one, because she hates having been raised catholic, so she "calls" herself Wiccan.I think Wicca is a very beautiful, sound religion, without the prejudices and punishments other religions rely on to work, and I use the word "work" very loosely.
1 person likes this
@astromama (1221)
• United States
16 Feb 07
I read your blog, and can honestly say that, beside the actual observation of the Sabbats and Esbats, everything else fits. I'm uncomfortable with labels, though, and have never called myself anything. If people ask i say I'm 'more pagan than anything'. I believe strongly in the power of stones, thought, energy, etc... but my primary 'religion' is astrology. That is what I practice. I gravitate towards other persons who share a similar philosophy, but one set ideology has never been for me. To me, any religion that has it's particular rules is too confining. I prefer to practice my rituals when they feel right, and usually alone. i don't know what 'other's' would call that... wiccan, pagan, eclectic? All I know is that I have found the truths that help me along my own path, and I fully believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I like to share mine, but could really care less if they are the same beliefs held by any particular group. My goal is to share with other humans, regardless of creed... this means you may find me at a Sabbat, a church mass, a sweat lodge, drum circle... anywhere were people gather in celebration... true child of earth. Segregation isn't my thing.
1 person likes this
@Myrrdin (3599)
• Canada
16 Feb 07
My sister used to claim she was a Wiccan, and I did give her a hard time about it. Not because of the religion, but because she didn't know anything about it. She claimed to belong to a coven who had complete control over the weather and could call lightning down upon me if she so desired. Of course I laughed at her and told her to do her worst. The fact is she claimed that her "coven" worshiped a variety of gods all of whom were just ones that various movies have claimed Wiccans follow, there was nothing nature based in her so called beliefs. Of course I did have the last laugh since in the end she buckled and admitted it was all a lie.
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Wiccans, I do however dislike pretenders and liars. Whatever your belief fine, but at least research the religion of your choice and know what it really stands for. This goes for Christians, Muslims, Wiccans, and all religious people. Nothing more I hate then Zealots who have less knowledge of a religion than I, an agnostic who distrusts all organized religions.
1 person likes this
@DiorelleBabe (226)
• Philippines
16 Feb 07
Hi! My bestfriend, who's also a member of this site is a Wiccan...She's been taught the Wiccan ways since she was a child, since her Mom is a Wiccan. You can add her up as your friend if you'd like..Her name on this site is Deelicious (",)
@Darkwing (21583)
•
6 Mar 07
I'm a bit late responding to this, but I only just came across it.
I'm Saex-Wica but my basic training is in the Wiccan tradition. I changed to Saex because of the Saxon element, being British... I'm very interested in Saxon history, and live in Sussex (Saessex), so I have plenty of reasoning behind the fork in my path.
I haven't read your site yet, but I will do, straight after this.
Brightest Blessings. Love is the law and love is the bond. :-)
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
15 Feb 07
I'm not Wiccan, though I am pagan, more specifically Celtic. I have known many people who were or claimed to be Wiccan. Some of them were legit, and some weren't.
I think a lot of people label themselves "Wiccan" when they really follow some eclectic version of paganism. Others label themselves Wiccan because it's cool, or rebellious. And a few label themselves Wiccan, because well, they are. lol
I do know that I get annoyed when other people refer to me as Wiccan. Not because I have anything against Wiccans, but because it's simply not what I am. A lot of people think the words "Wiccan" and "pagan" are interchangeable though, because Wiccan is the only one of the "pagan" religions to get much real press.
@tangible (60)
• United States
15 Feb 07
I completely understand and completely agree with you. That whole "If a Wiccan is a Pagan, then Pagans must be Wiccans" thing really needs to stop. I would hope that more people would understand that while we might all fall under the "umbrella" term of Pagan, it doesn't always mean that we all understand it the same way, and certainly that we are not all "the same" ;o)
2 people like this
@APMorison (424)
• United States
15 Mar 07
The Pagans are as diverse (and even, unfortunately, as contentious) as varying 'sects' of any other Religious Grouping - not Group but Grouping because I am basically discussing the labels at this point;).
I have always been taught that Wicca is an interpretation of research into varied ancient Pagan practices and beliefs. That this interpretation was codified and organized under the title Wicca by Gerald Gardener and from there follows a trail similar to the sect breakouts similar to the Protestant Reformation within the Christian Church so that there is the Gardinarian, Alexandrian, etc....
Then there are the Other Pagans.... the rest of us witches and shaman and whatever other thing we call ourselves based on which of the old pathways called to us the strongest.
Me, I'm partly a Celtic Witch, then some days the Native blood grabs me and I sing a Native chant while making Fry Bread, and occasionally I get an urge to remember the part of the family that some of my relatives prefer not to discuss - and pour a bit of Cane Juice Ferment (rum) for the Loa.
I usually don't argue when someone tags me as Wiccan if its a casual thing. I will correct someone if they ask directly. I do however get very annoyed at the Blessed 'WannaBees' who prance around claiming Wicca because they read one book and lit one candle and maybe even rang a bell - but more because it Shocks Their Parents and annoys the Establishment.
I'm 48 going on 49 now and have been learning this Path since I was 13 - and I still don't claim to be all and know all - but I will tell you what I have learned if ya ask - and one thing I have learned - is I'm not Wiccan, tried Alexandrian - did all the 'steps' got tagged as HP and said, ya know, this is not quite it - and went in search of.....
@imsilver (1665)
• Canada
16 Feb 07
I've considered myself wicca for a few years now. And your blog there just verified it for me.. lol.. I followed the link posted by another responder and was able to find your blog there. Wonderfully put together by the way.
I get so upset when I hear people say that "harry potter" encourages witchcraft. What a crock that is. The magic that harry and them do in the books has absolutely nothing to do with the magic that I practise being wicca.
Blessed be.
@retardedrugrat (4791)
• Canada
16 Feb 07
I'm not Wiccan although I do have a friend that claims to be Wiccan. I'm a Spiritualist, and through discussions we did find that there are similarities between Wicca and Spirituality.
I think the main thing to remember when it comes to things like religion and Wicca and Spirituality and all that is to take what feels right and go with it. If anything doesn't resonate or feel right, then leave it be. Simple as.
My friend casts and knows quite a lot, but she did say that she doesn't follow all the ceremonies and stuff.
@Galena (9110)
•
2 Mar 07
I always end up banging my head against a brick wall with some people calling themselves Wiccan.
bear in mind I've met Gardnerians that won't even aknowledge Alexandrians as a Wiccan.
as far as I'm concerned Wicca is an initiatory tradition, and without being initiated into that tradition then you are not part of that tradition. no matter how many of the beleifs of that tradition you share, the tradition is passed on through initiation.
if you want to call yourself Wiccan then track yourself down a lineaged group and get initiated. if you don't want to do that then why are you so keen to take on the name of the tradition that has that as part of it.
silly people
@tangible (60)
• United States
2 Mar 07
Hooraah! I absolutely agree to a degree (no pun intended). Most OG Circles existent today still do not recognize any other "traditions" as being valid forms of Wicca - BUT initiatory elements in the Gardnerian sense are inclusive to the Tradition - I still hold that if someone entertains the form and philosophy of OG Wicca and does in fact experience the initiatory process either solo or by experience, then they are equally "Wiccan" ... just maybe not in a position to really claim the title ;o) So to speak.
"the tradition is passed on through initiation" - YOU ARE SOOOOO RIGHT. And if someone is really sincere in their desire to be a part of that tradition... I agree, they should seek out Circles that are directly related/descendant to Gardner and seek initiation. GOOD CALL!
We can't forget that Gardner's attempt - know matter how he went about it - was to re-birth and rejuvinate witchcraft, melding and mending old and new... sooo, I do agree with you... the lineage of "Wicca" needs to fall back on that root, but I have come to be pretty accepting of any "Wiccan" who at least abides in the same spirit, form, and philosophy ;o) I might not recognize them as anything other than a witch, but they are still at least that in my book ;o)
Thanks for the response.
1 person likes this
@Galena (9110)
•
3 Mar 07
well exactly. why be so desparate to take on the name. there are other names that describe it better. Witch or even just plain old Pagan. what's wrong with that.
but I tell them that, get accused of being elitist, and then informed that Wicca is about doing your own thing. *rolls eyes*
if you want something that is about doing your own thing then Wicca isn't it. if you don't like what the tradition stands for then at least show it some respect and don't take its name.
because I haven't trained and qualified as a herbalist (yet, I plan to one day) I won't call myself a herbalist.
I know a fair bit about herbs and using them, but I haven't earned the title. it would be disrespectful for me to claim that title when other people have worked hard for it.
I feel Wicca is the same.
I'm quite happy with my bog standard, no frills, folk magic based Witchcraft.
@cajunmomma (624)
• United States
16 Feb 07
My husband has a few friends who are Wiccan. I don't know them personally. I am not completely sure what makes them wiccan. I guess their religion.
@rogue13xmen13 (14402)
• United States
16 Feb 07
At my college their are a few, but they prefer to keep quiet about it because some people think that they are witches, but they really are not. They are Pagans. Pagan is belief in many Gods or belief in nature, spirits, and the supernatural. I have nothing against them. If that is who they are and they want to worship that way, that is up to them.
@celestial_fantasia (620)
• United States
16 Feb 07
THANK YOU!!! This is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves also. When people find out that I am Wiccan either they start going off about the religion out of ignorance or low and behold...they too are Wiccan. I think it is great, if someone really is. The more the merrier. However, I really cannot stand wannabe's. My family has had generations of witches, which is how I learned about the craft and accepted it as my religion. I am very proud to be Wiccan, so I guess when there are people out there who aren't but are claiming to be...it is annoying. Many have no clue what they are talking about, they are out there telling people they are Wiccan and getting the truth messed up. I don't like stereotypes, and I am sure you know what I am talking about, but many of these people are doing just that. Again...great post!
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
16 Feb 07
Well *scratches my head* I try to avoid labling myself. Simply 'cause it causes so many problems and the people going "You can't be so and so because.." and the other people telling me I'm going to go to hell because I believe in such in such, gets kind of annoying after a while. But normally I say "I'm eclectic witch" since it means I mix and match from different paths and practice witchcraft..and it's simple enough..
I can be classified as Pagan or wiccan technically. Though since I believe we shouldn't just sit and let people hurt us most people tell me I can't be wiccan 'cause of the 'an it harm none' rule. But mostly I'm too nice for my own good..I let loads of crao slide, but I have my limits, and once they hit that limit..well.
*shrugs*
So technically I haven't claimed to be wiccan at all yet haha.
But I do believe all of the things you listed on being key things to being wiccan..I miss esbats and sabbats occasionally, but I'm human. And I know God/ess won't be upset with me if I happen to miss one sabbat out of eight lol.
I agree though, I've never considered anyone who was without those to be wiccan..a witch or pagan yeah..though alot of people I've met who claim but are without those, are pretenders or wannabes..
Lecanis and Ravenlady are right it probably is Buckland's and Conway's fault lol..lot of fluff most of their books..though Buckland did hit on some good info occasionally.