What evidence do you have for existence of a supernatural god?
By marzenna
@marzenna (253)
February 26, 2007 5:06pm CST
This debate is not ment to insolt anybody. I am just curious why people choose to believe in something without searching to find out if this is the true.
3 responses
@marzenna (253)
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28 Feb 07
Thank you for the responce. I agree everyone should do that and Humanist do. We believe in what has been proven and documented. as soon new developments in science arrive, we read about them from different perspectives and if it has been well documented and checked (eg placebo) we tend to believe. I pointed out in my previous discussions that during the development of science one day the scientific tests will prove that soul exists I will be very happy to change my mind.
@Lavendyr (44)
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27 Feb 07
Your use of the word "evidence" suggests that you require proof in order to believe in something. This isn't true. In fact, to have concrete evidence that God exists would countermand faith, because if you have to have proof in order to believe in something, you don't have faith in it. If God appeared in the sky saying "Hey! Look at me! I exist!", then of course everyone would turn around and say "Oh, OK, I've seen you exist, so now I can believe in you." But that wouldn't show any faith on their part at all, because they didn't believe before they had seen the actual proof.
So it's my opinion that if you need evidence in order to believe that something is the case, then you're not really open to "believing" - instead you are only open to "knowing".
Furthermore, a lack of "evidence" doesn't mean that people "choose to believe in something without searching to find out if it is the truth". I think it is very important for every single person, no matter whether they believe in a God or not, to question their beliefs constantly, to read about their belief, to ask others for their opinions and thoughts and to talk to their God about what they are thinking and ask him/her/it for guidance.
Myself I believe in God because I have experienced things that, in my belief, have no other explanation. For me, I have seen "proof" of God's existence, but it is not proof in that I could not say that "it is beyond reasonable doubt that this was caused by God". It is not beyond reasonable doubt. But it is my belief. Sometimes we "just know" things that we can't explain, and this is one of them.
I could honestly turn your question around and ask why so many people choose not to believe in a supernatural being without searching to find if it is the truth. We all hold a belief of some kind, because no one can prove whether God exists or not. I spent a long time "not believing in God", but as soon as I actually questioned that belief by educating myself further, I found that I began to believe in a supernatural being after all.
I hope that helps. I am not insulted, I enjoy the chance to discuss belief. :)
@Lavendyr (44)
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3 Mar 07
Sorry I have not been back to this site in a while. :)
Why would God choose to hide himself? Because he gave us free will. If he appeared to us, it would force us to believe in him. We have the choice of believing or not, as things stand.
I agree that the church has changed its interpretation of things. There is much in the Bible that we still have not uncovered the true meaning of, and we may never manage this. There are confusing sections in the Bible and it is always important to know the context of things that are said in there, in order to better understand them.
But in this respect I see an understanding of religion as no different than an understanding of science. We are learning all the time and discovering new things. It's really important that we keep doing this, and that when we find out that we are wrong, we admit that we're wrong. For the church to say "Actually, we were wrong about X, we now think it means Y instead" is a huge thing, because it shows that they are humble enough to announce their mistakes.
You mention also that there is no need to prove that "something doesn't exist" but rather we need to prove that things do exist. Actually, I think that we often work on the basis of eliminating possibilities to come closer to the most likely explanation, so in that respect, we do need to prove that something does not exist. The important thing is to eliminate all reasonable doubt, by testing hypotheses, exmining results, changing variables, testing again, etc. But at the end of the day, how do you know that anything exists? How do you know that you exist and that you're not just the figment of someone's imagination? We will never know for certain, anything. But we can believe it to be the case beyond all reasonable doubt.
We cannot know that God exists, and we have not yet proven beyond reasonable doubt whether he does or does not. There is so much that we still don't know and can't explain. I think that one day (the end of days, according to the Bible) we will discover that God does certainly exist, beyond all doubt, but that this discovery will be on his terms, not ours.
@marzenna (253)
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28 Feb 07
Thank you. First I have to say that I enjoy discussions with you. You are not insulting in anyway. Only expressing your opinion and this is what I asked for.
You are right. I need scientific tests to believe something and can't have faith in something that (for me) is not logical. But I stress again: science developed so much during the last hundreds of years that I cant exclude anything that has not be find yet. There is still so much for us to understand and so much science can't explain. But for me it means only that science can't explain it YET.
I often have the question during friendly discussions: There is no evidence that God doesn't exists. True but you don't need to prove that something doesn't exists. There is no evidence that a tea pot doesn't orbit the planer Mars. How do you prove that it doesn't?
I envy people who have strong believe in God, as long it doesn't make them hurting other people. I do not mean that in aggressive way, but it happen. Live with faith is much easier.
I was raised in a catholic country and family and by educating myself (like you), I found to many contradictions. It was not my choice to stop to believe. There just were to many things that has been proven opposite to the teaching I was raised in. For example: how many times church changed its mind about things? The current Pope even stated recently that the catholic teaching does not contradict the theory of evolution!
You were right as well in saying that if God would show Himself it would be knowing not believing (although in my opinion knowing does not exclude believing). But why God would choose to hide himself? It does not make sense to me. What do you think?
@whacks (774)
• Philippines
1 Mar 07
Courts accept documentary evidence. The Holy Bible is a document and not just a piece of paper as it consists of 66 books. Nobody has ever proven that the Holy Bible is not the word of God. I am therefore presenting this as an evidence that there is God. In addition to this, I am presenting your own selves as evidence because you are the creation of God including me of course. Nobody has as yet proven that man evolve from the ape; believers of this theory has not even proven where the ape came from. God said He created the ape and the ape will procreate in its species and therefore no matter how many years would pass, the ape would still be ape.
Other evidence that there is God are the things that you see, etc. God says in Job 41:11 Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine. Nobody has ever yet proven otherwise.
If you do not believe in God, you ought not to benefit from the creation of God like everything you need for your life as air, sunshine, rain, etc. which can never be enumerated as there are so many.