Does God Exist? What Proof Do You Have?
By springborn
@springborn (295)
United States
February 26, 2007 7:25pm CST
First of all, I am a Christian. I just want to know what other people think and believe here on myLot. So...
Does God exist, in any shape, form, or fashion? Or, let's rephrase it...Does a Supreme Being, a Deity of any kind, exist? And if so, why do you believe so, and what proof do you have? And if not, why do you believe not, and what proof do you have? Proof is a must in this discussion. You can't just say that you believe or don't believe, there has to be proof either way. Any responses to this question without proof will be given a negative rating.
3 people like this
26 responses
@omnithought (199)
• United States
27 Feb 07
Proof would rely on evidence. There is none.
One can speculate all their lives and come up with many interesting ideas, but unless they actually have evidence to support the actual existence of this being, they still have nothing.
Just declaring that god is the reason for the things we don't yet have answers for is dishonest. Perhaps a god does exist, but it can't be proven or disproved. It's just too convenient to say "Oh, we don't currently have an answer for this? Then it must be god!" That's not evidence, that's just making a declaration by fiat.
One can have their own experiences of god, but that's still not evidence, as we can't prove the experiences we have internally. It may be convincing to oneself, but it doesn't constitute proof.
3 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence. Look around you. Look WITHIN you. Every bit of you and the world around you is evidence/proof. Even the idea of God is proof that there is at least some kind of Supreme Being.
1 person likes this
@omnithought (199)
• United States
27 Feb 07
Also, because of this, you'll have to rate every response as negative, in order to remain honest.
2 people like this
@bamckinley (3)
• United States
28 Feb 07
When you look at science, much is speculative. Could our bodies have evolved from different forms? Sure! We are created in the image of God, as humans our concept is human form. Science does not explain away God. You must continue backward with them because there will ALWAYS be a point that they absolutely can not explain. There must be a beginning of the universe. A bang? What created that bang? I ask for your evidence refuting a Supreme Creator. At some point omnipotence is the only answer. The only thing we have at this point is an omnipotent Creator. There is no way to prove science. God, in his word never speaks or requires proof. We have a choice and it is called Faith for believers. I find science a cold choice. I am glad and grateful that God in His wisdom took a chance on me. Ask yourself this....what makes you the king of all animals? What gave you reasoning? Do you really believe it was some great fluke?
2 people like this
@omnithought (199)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I have to say that I find it a bit odd and intellectually dishonest that you would require proof of something unprovable, and when someone provides some speculation (not proof) that agrees with your beliefs, you claim it as proof, but when someone says something that disagrees, you suddenly value evidence.
I may as well create a post requiring proof of unicorns and when someone says something that would agree with there being unicorns, I say "Great proof! Good answer!" After all, we see hoof prints everywhere, and we know that the narwhal exists, so there are things with single horns. That MUST mean unicorns exist too, right? At least, the would be the case according to the criteria set forth so far in this discussion.
3 people like this
@erminiasanjose (1588)
• Philippines
27 Feb 07
The best evidence in courts are documentary evidence. If we present the Holy Bible as a proof which states so many things because it is composed of 66 books which do not contradict each other (contradictions appear only to those who do not understand), unbelievers do not want to accept that as an evidence. In effect, they want to see God personally which God says that no person could see Him because that person will surely die if he sees Him.
The unbelievers did not see their forefathers and yet they believe. God says that He created man and Adam was the first from where all came. The atheists do not believe and they say that man came from ape wherein they don't know where that ape came from.
If people do not believe in God and the Holy Bible as the word of God and it is the truth, just let them because they have the right and prerogative to do whatever they want. I presented the Holy Bible as proof and in addition to the Holy Bible, I am presenting everything that the eyes can see and the mind can perceive. And the best proof I'm sure is yourself. You did not create yourself; God created you. With these I don't expect to receive a negative rating.
@erminiasanjose (1588)
• Philippines
27 Feb 07
I really believe in God. We can't depend upon ourselves. We can't live apart from God because He is the source of everything. Thanks for marking the best response. May God bless you.
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
27 Feb 07
On the contrary, you get best response! Very good proofs! And you even refuted what some believe about the Bible being contradictory and not proof enough. Very good!
2 people like this
@joven222 (84)
• Philippines
27 Feb 07
i do really believe in God. Maybe we cannot see Him in person but i can always feel His presence in my life. And if you want to see some proof, just look at yourself and ask, how can be a complex being been made if there is no intervention of a Supreme Being. God Bless my friend. Your are the most beautiful creation by God.
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
27 Feb 07
Some very real proof; thank you!
Also, did you know that, since research has shown the cell to be so complex and perfectly balanced, a lot of scientists are revoking Darwin's theory of evolution, and turning to God? They are starting to prove (not intentionally) that there is at least something bigger who at the very least started everything in motion.
1 person likes this
@omnithought (199)
• United States
27 Feb 07
That's not proof, that just declaring something as true regardless of proof. It doesn't work that way.
And complex beings all started from more simple beginnings. We didn't just "poof" into existence in our current form. The most basic course in biology will show this.
@springborn (295)
• United States
27 Feb 07
A lot of people say that we evolved from apes, who evolved from a single-cell micro-organism that was brought about after the "Big Bang" happened, which brought the universe into existence. If this is true, then I guess all the little single-cell micro-organisms (wherever the other ones came from) just got it in their "heads" one day to come together and make something. Sorta like this:
"Hey, I have an idea. Let's all get together and create insects and mammals (which include apes) and reptiles and water creature thingys. Then we'll rule the world!"
That sounds more than a little silly, doesn't it? And it still doesn't explain how a single-cell micro-organism could come from an explosion somewhere in space (how did space get here in the first place? Not another explosion, I hope...). Or how more than one got here. Or how they evolved into multi-cell organisms, for which there was no precedent. So some say we evolved from apes. Well, where did the apes come from? And, if speculations about the earth's age are correct, then evolution to the point we're at now must have been very fast. So, given that trend, why aren't we more advanced? I mean, when you think about it, we haven't come that far from the caveman, compared to how far the caveman came from that single-cell micro-organism in such little time.
You referred to biology. As I said before, many scientists are now looking at all that we know about the complexity of cells and ecosystems and life, and realizing that there's no way that such careful planning could come about by an explosion. I'm not sure if I completely got that point across or not, but I hope that clears up what I was originally trying to say.
1 person likes this
@MissRefinements (11)
• United States
27 Feb 07
As an Atheist, I myself do not believe in the existence of any deity. As to proof, I would say I have come to my conclusions based on a lack of evidence to support any claims to the contrary. I do not deny the possibility of something more to the universe, however, I see no facts to support.
It is argued that life is a truly amazing miracle and could not have come into existence without divine intervention. I agree that life is amazing, yet why does it have to have a conscious creator? If a god has always been, why can't the universe always have been? Who created god? People base their beliefs in god on books written a thousand or so years ago without taking into regards the human influence over the writings. Words on pages updated and revised by rulers who saw that the bible greatly improved their power and control of their subjects.
Taking science, history, psychology, sociology as well as my own personal observations, I see no proof that a deity of any kind exist.
2 people like this
@MissRefinements (11)
• United States
3 Mar 07
Thank you Omnithought, you basically answered for me. It is the natural inclination of the human species to find a reason to explain things. In the days prior to the knowledge we have to date, some supreme force seemed a most fitting explanation. I however do not understand why people so desperately cling to such notions when the factual data is often in direct contradiction to proven facts. I choose science over a deity any day. So much more logical, no?
1 person likes this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
What about the idea of God? I mean, it had to have come from somewhere, right? I seriously doubt that the cavemen and all the other pagans from the "old times" just got together and said, "Ok, so we're gonna dance around a fire and sacrifice people and animals to this spirit that we're gonna call God. He's not really there, but we're gonna pretend. That way we feel better." So where did the idea of God come from, if not God Himself?
1 person likes this
@omnithought (199)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Actually, it kind of did work out that way. People were primitive and couldn't explain much of anything. They hadn't developed a scientific protocol of any kind for testing things. They, being primitive, assumed mystical origins of things.
Today, we now understand how stars and planets form, how things as complex as an eye can evolve over time via natural selection, and many other things. So many things we thought could only be attributable to god we've been able to explain, and have replaced mystical ideas with facts.
There are still things we are learning, but it would be primitive of us to simply assume, like the cavemen, that there is some mystical origin. The gaps in our knowledge are being closed rapidly, but the fact remains that we will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a god.
From your responses so far, you don't seem to have a very thorough knowledge about evolution or about science in general. I'm not trying to be insulting, but I do suggest you read about current scientific knowledge regarding evolution and other sciences. I highly suggest a book called The Blind Watchmaker, which describes very clearly and simply how complex cells, organisms and whatnot have evolved over time from simple beginnings. It's very clear and completely supported by massive amounts of evidence.
To simply reject that which doesn't fit with your beliefs is dishonest.
3 people like this
@dixie1958 (4)
• United States
28 Feb 07
i have always believed in GOD, my brother was very ill when he was born and always seemed at deaths door.one year we had CHRISTMAS in the summer because the doctors said he would not live to see CHRISTMAS.my mom had always had an immaculately clean home but since my brothers birth had to let it slide,she was constantly checking on him every half hour.one day my mom got down and she said she prayed as she had never prayed before and asked GOD to heal her son or take him to HEAVEN because she could not live this anymore.my mom told me when she got up she felt as though the weight of the world had been lifted from her shoulders.instead of checking on my brother she tore the house apart really cleaning it.then she mixed up a cake from scratch and had it in the oven and was washing dishes,when my brother who was no more than 6 years old came from the cot he was napping on to where my mom stood in the kitchen at the sink.my mom turned to see him standing there with his arms stretched towards HEAVEN and he said look mommy i am all well.he was never sick again.my brother will be 47 years old this year on june 30th.GOD answered my moms prayers and i know he is real.
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
27 Feb 07
Believe in god. It is easer than thinking.
2 people like this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
28 Feb 07
Thinking is a product of reason. Our senses provide us with inputs from the physical world around us but reason is how we analyse what we perceive. The tool that we use to do this is logic. Logic states that what is real exists. A=A, if you find that A=B there is something wrong with your basic premise. There is no physical evidence of god. Do not tell me that I must prove that he does not exist. If something does not exist there is no need to prove it. If you state that something exists you must provide physical, verifiable facts to prove it. A can not equal B just because you want it to. The supposed historical facts you have given do not stand up. They are stories more approprate for childern than thinking adulits.
@springborn (295)
• United States
27 Feb 07
And if you think your way through it, you will also find that God (or a Higher Being) is indeed real.
1 person likes this
@JellyBeans (639)
• Canada
27 Feb 07
I can't really give any proof that God exists. The only thing you can do is hope and pray that there is a 'God' There is no actual proof. But there is a mention that i probably would think is fake that someone found Jesus' Body, but I highly doubt that he did... If he did, this could mean that everything in the bible is in fact true and there would be our proof that there is in fact a God.
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Actually, I think it would be completely opposite. If someone found the body of Jesus Christ, then it would show that everything that the Bible said about the resurrection, and the entire New Testament from that point on, would be a lie. If this is really the body of the Son of Man, then there goes the Christian faith from the face of the earth.
I honestly doubt that it's the real body of Jesus Christ, though.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I believe there's a surpreme power that controls the universe, created it and everything in it. It's not exactly easy to describe though.
I believe in two trinity's which both while one they're two also.
*frowns*
The Maiden, Mother, Crown.
The Father, Son, Sage.
Female. Male.
Both. Niether.
Basically.
Why? Because our entire world's an example of it. Endless variables. Polarity. And because it makes more sense to me. Nature, the world, which to me is my diety since I believe he/she/it embodies it's creations. We're all apart of her, she's all apart of us. Nature, the universe acts so much like both a father and a mother to us. Loving and cruel. Willing to bend but never break or change for us, through she inevitably changes BECAUSE of us.
Looking at science, how things are constantly evolving, tells us that there had to be a God/ess somehow involved with our creations. Because if nothing existed..how could something exist from nothing? It's a paradox. The only answer to this paradox is some sort of diety.
Though, of course no one can truly prove anything they believe. The closest most of us can get is to make sense about it, prove a logical point, and have a good reason to why we believe it.
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Very good! Though I don't agree with you on the goddess/nature part, your logic is sound, and my disagreement is another conversation altogether.
1 person likes this
@n3v3rl0v3 (153)
• United Arab Emirates
27 Feb 07
Well... As you are Christian, I can only say one thing. If you see foot-print prints of a camel in a desert then you will instantly get to know that a camel has been passed by here. You believe a camel's existence only with it's foot-print.(Every creation comes from a creator). Likewise, this whole Universe is not a creation of mankind. It's actually a proof of the existence of God.
{I don't care about the ratings. I just shared what I learn from my guiders }
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Good application to the tangible.
And, personally, I think it's good that you don't care about ratings, only about sharing what you've learned.
1 person likes this
@omnithought (199)
• United States
28 Feb 07
There's just one big gaping hole in that idea. We already know camels exist and that they leave footprints. We have no such evidence for god.
1 person likes this
@Sageoak (36)
• United States
27 Feb 07
DeCarte, the famed French mathematician, came up with the perfect arguement in favor of belief of God. If he does not exist than worship does nothing but give personal relief. If God does exist than his worship is rewarded after life. Either way you really cannot lose.
2 people like this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
28 Feb 07
What if you die and find you have been following the wrong god? What if god is a tree spirit and is put out with you because you have not been making the proper sacrifices to him? Unsupported belief in anything is a sin against the mind.
Belief in a supernatural being is not a prerequisite for leading a good, moral life. Historically it has proven to be the opposit.
1 person likes this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
There's also Pascal's Wager. I'm not sure who Pascal was, but he said this:
If you believe in God, then die and find out that there was no God to begin with, at least you led a good life.
If you don't believe in god, then die and found out that He did exist, you're screwed.
Either way, you cannot lose. :)
1 person likes this
@akshay3189 (17)
• India
27 Feb 07
well, my thinking is that god exists in your heart.if you believe in god, you can see him wherever you want him to be and if you do not believe in him, well, you will not believe anything anyone says to you about god.
there are many beliefs about god. some say that he has created the universe. but science says something else. with all the development in science, the scientists seem to find out an explanation for almost anything and so, the probability of the presence of god is decreasing day by day.
so it all depends on your thinking and how you perceive god to be
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Actually, a lot of scientists today are looking at what we know about cells and how complex they are, and they're saying stuff like, "This complexity in the very core of life itself can't be the product of an explosion and evolution. There has to be a god of some kind." So, it's getting to the point where even science is starting to prove the existence of God.
1 person likes this
@GODROX (45)
•
27 Feb 07
Jesus gave Pilot a very specific answer to this question .
When Pilot asked him if he was indeed a king Jesus answered
"yes I am a king but my kingdom is not of this world , if it were my followers would have fought to prevent my being captured".
Only hours before this Jesus was asked by the high priest of the Sanhedrin....Are you a the Christ? and Jesus relied "I am , and you will see the son of man sitting at the righthand of the power of God".
No one else in any other religion states that they ARE God.
I could sum up your search for evidence with the wise words of St Thomas Aquinas who said,
" for those with faith no explanation is necessary, for those without faith no explanation will suffice".
PEACE......
@krishnaphani08 (15)
• India
27 Feb 07
yes, God exists. i will give you one proof. some 2 years ago my dad's colleague's daughter got married. she is a SAIBABA's devotie. she searched for baba in her marriage. she believes that BABA will come in the form of his photo atleast. but no photo was there and nothing was there about BABA. she cried in the night and spoke to BABA that "BABA,i thought you would attend my marriage but you dont,why?whats the reason". she spoke like that and slept.she got a dream. in that, BABA told her that my dear, i came to ur marriage.just see the photos. i was there. he told like that.after 2 days she saw her photos and she found BABA standing behind the people who have come to bless her at the time of her marriage. i have that photo also. so GOD IS THERE AND HE EXISTS.
@springborn (295)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Very good proof. I like the way you put it in everyday terms, applying it to your own life.
But who's SAIBABA?
1 person likes this
@oarnamav (2708)
• India
27 Feb 07
Humanity in you is GOD.
Try to read this word beyond any religious
or mythalogical theories.
The "GOD" IS A FEELING AND NOT ANY IMAGINARY ENTITY WHICH FAVOURS YOU IF PRAYED FREQUENTLY.
It's your work, behavior, attitude, honesty, intrest in living things and a love to render all which would please you in your life and this only is a name a title as GOD!
2 people like this
@springborn (295)
• United States
27 Feb 07
Interesting idea. I used to have one that was something like that.
1 person likes this
@dancia2007 (551)
• United States
27 Feb 07
MY PROOF: In my mind, God exists because I can see the complexity of nature and the human body, and the earth. Nature is very complex, mathematical, and seems planned. I don't think these things could have arisen by accident. They seem to have been planned, even if something did go awry in the plan.
OTHER SYMPATHETIC COMMENT: Even as a Christian I can see that people have circular reasoning when they say that the Bible is inspired and that God exists, just because it says it. I mean, I bet the Koran probably has reference to being inspired inside of it... right?
2 people like this
@aling_tindera (259)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
I believe in God. Need proof? Look in the mirror. Tell me how you exist. No matter how we explain it through science, the question at the end is still, how does that happen? Even if you tell me that we are made of this and that, matters are made up of atom, this so and so reacts to so and so thus we are able to so and so. There is still a question right? How does Science work? Only a Supreme Being could do that. Only God.
2 people like this
@LiminaL (164)
• Italy
27 Feb 07
I think that beliving in god or not is always a matter of personal and arbitrary decision, I mean that I consider any proof given to sustain a belief as insufficient to motivate it. That's at least how it works for me. I've been discussing with people giving me prooves pro and against god, but I've never realized which the real connecion between a rational proof and a belive coud ever be. At the same time I don't undervalue the importance of these proofs, because thay are significant in relation to the approach a person can have toward existence.
I would rather say that proof is a kind of system elaborated in order to sustain some wider perception we have, some wider reality that goes beyond reasoning in terms of proofs.
If I had to adapt my own belive in terms of proof as you ask , I would say this : I decide to belive, and I know that It is a choice, and that I'm personally conditioning the features I attribute to this being. The proof, is the indispensibility for my whole person to reflect and refer, wonder about it. the proof is the proof that I need it and it is a proof which I wouldn't try to give on any other person. I don't think that God is so obviously recognizable through experience, but I find it as a kind of complex symbolism to relate to the world and to deal with existence on an astract level. my proof is a subjective need for this
@ruzzen77 (57)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
I really believe that there is a God. He really exists even before man existed. I believe in that fact just because the Bible, which has been around the world for many years, says so. Some people might not be a bible-believer but i have a faith that there really is a God.
2 people like this
@qjalaramaka (9)
• Philippines
27 Feb 07
I believe that God exist. Not only because this was taught to me in school and by my parents but also because I can feel it in my heart. I know inside me that there is God, a supreme being that provides grace to us, saves us, protect us and guide us. Our day to day life, problems, blessings, salvation that we enjoy is a great testamnet that there is God. Another proof is the miracle of life,. The way a person is formed, grows in a womb and deliver on earth is a great proof that God exist.