For my Christian brothers and sisters ... regarding grace and forgiveness!
By imadriscoll
@imadriscoll (2228)
United States
February 27, 2007 6:25pm CST
Here is one thing that I really don't understand about some Christians (including some that I dearly love)...
I believe that "once saved, always saved" meaning that once a person confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead, they are saved ... FOREVER! (See Romans 10:9)
Also Ephesians 2:8 & 9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a reslut of works, so that no one may boast."
How is it that so many people believe that you can lose your salvation? If you believe this can you show me in Scripture where this is found?
I'm also not trying to start any fights (Let's remember to love our neighbors) ... I really just don't understand, so if you hold to this view can you explain to me how you came to this conclusion?
6 people like this
12 responses
@mjsdls (1840)
• United States
28 Feb 07
Well I know for a fact you can lose your salvation. I have been their. When I was 22 years old I moved away from home and lived with a women that was gay. I lived with her and her lover for 6 years and I got into that lifestyle.
I started to drink and all that stupid stuff. It went on for 13 years. I know I had left the Lord and I felt him calling me back but I believed the lie of the devil that I couldn't be forgiven for the lifestyle I have lived.
After I had my son I gave my heart and life back to Jesus. He has done a great work in my life since. So I have experianced losing salvation, but finally came back to God. I thank Him that He forgave me.
@cloudwatcher (6861)
• Australia
28 Feb 07
That is no proof that you weren't saved in the first place. The Lord DID call you back, and you are now in a state of grace with Him. IF you were genuinely saved in the first place, isn't this a proof of God's restoration process? Isn't it a case of God not letting go of His own? Isn't it a case of His preserving you until you returned to Him?
3 people like this
@livewyre (2450)
•
28 Feb 07
I have to say that this is an issue which has cropped up many times in my experience and I would say that 'No' you can't loser your salvation, to teach that you can (and I know plenty who do) actually diminishes Christs' sacrifice in my opinion. The question remains 'when do I know that I am saved?' and that is the crux of the issue. You have correctly recognised that there is a distinction between confession of faith and believing in ones heart. There are plenty of people who confess faith, but no-one other than Father, Son and Holy Spirit can possibly know the state of someone's heart.
For myself, I drifted away from the Lord in my twenties and was living a life that was not edifying to my God. At NO point during this episode of my life did I feel I had lost my salvation, Christs' sacrifice covered all my wrongdoings, and coming back into the Lords' presence was glorious, and you know what? he blessed me so much as soon as I came back into the fold.
Teaching that you can lose your salvation or not is not a central part of our faith, more of a side issue.. Though if you think about it, it makes Gods' saving grace conditional, but that requires some thinking through. Obviously it is an easy choice for some church leaders to suggest that you can lose your salvation, and one should never imply that we have carte blanche to embark an any life-style safe in the knowledge that your salvation is sealed - But, that said I think you will find that a soul once written in the 'Lambs book of life' cannot be erased.
@cloudwatcher (6861)
• Australia
28 Feb 07
To livewyre and Imadriscoll
I concur wholeheartedly with both of you.
God bless you for your testimony.
God's Word is true and will stand forever.
1 person likes this
@taurus54 (317)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
Some churches teach that our works somehow make us acceptable to God.Nothing could be further from the truth.Isaiah64:6; "But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteounesses are as filthy rags;" Eph 2:8-9; " For by grace you are saved through faith;and not of yourelves:it is the gift of God:Not of works,lest any man should boast".Titus 3:5 Not by work of righteouness that we have done,but according to his mercy he saved us".
Sound simple- right? Is grace a free ride if we say we believe?
How about works?
Are they important if we can to heaven on salvation and grace alone?
1 person likes this
@tanyakapler (146)
• United States
1 Mar 07
I believe what you believe once saved always saved...I have talked about this situation with my mother-in-law and sister-in-law. They question a certain person, in our lives, salvation. They express that if this person at one time confessed Christ as thier savior and no doesn't give it two thoughts. Doesn't live his life the way he should...does that mean he is still saved. My answer to that was I have no clue...expect what the Bible gives us.
God knows where this person's heart is...so I guess He is the only one that truly knows.
1 person likes this
@imadriscoll (2228)
• United States
1 Mar 07
Tanya, I firmly believe that no one can know the heart of a man, except for God. Our hearts are deceitful and wicked, so I believe that it is very possible for some people to think that they are saved, without really experiencing a life changing relationship with Jesus Christ. God knows the state of the person. I think that you are responsible to love this person with the love of Christ, expose them to the gospel and let the Holy Sprit do the rest.
@snc911 (5)
• United States
1 Mar 07
The Bible says you will know a Christian by his fruits. The fruits here are the acts he does and how he follows the great comission that is found at the end of Matthew and Mark. If someone receives salvation, but there life does not change I would be suspicious of their conversion. But that does not mean that they will change instatly either. The Holy Spirit does not drag you kicking and screaming to change you life. The Bible compares the Holy Spirits leading in your life as a whisper in your ear. If you do not listen and do not allow him to lead your life won't change.
1 person likes this
@luzamper (1357)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
"Once saved, always saved" is the Calvinistic view. That is not in the Holy Bible. Belief is just one of the requisites of salvation. Confession of Jesus is another. And so you are not saved by just believing and confessing. All those to which Romans and Ephesians, etc. are spoken of to be saved are all baptized into Christ - baptism into Christ is a requisite of salvation. You become a child of God upon baptism into Christ. Obedience is another to be considered. All those who are saved OBEYED. All these things are in the New Testament. Study the Holy Bible as a whole to understand the whole counsel of God so that you will be saved and not thrown to hell.
@mobyfriend (1017)
• Netherlands
28 Feb 07
It would be nice if you put down some scriptures in favour of the discussion.
I'm saying you are already saved.
1 person likes this
@mobyfriend (1017)
• Netherlands
28 Feb 07
And what kind of baptism do you mean? Sprinkling water over the head, Baptism through the watergrave or baptism in the Holy Spirit?
1 person likes this
@mobyfriend (1017)
• Netherlands
28 Feb 07
Oh i truly love that answer but I'm sure that that most people would think: I'm not bothered by this since I will be in the presence of the Lord and they deserved it.
@tecklebuggg (209)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I have always believed once saved always saved. I've been questioned about it lots and lots. Here is what i base my belief on... its simple.
John 3:16 says for god so loved the world that whosoever believth in him should have everlasting life. that statement is followed by a period... Theres no conditions following that scripture.
1 person likes this
@tecklebuggg (209)
• United States
28 Feb 07
that scripture is paraphrased. I missed some of it sorry, I beleive it goes... for god so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son so whosoever believth in him will not perish but have everlasting life.
2 people like this
@taurus54 (317)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
John 15:1-2 Jesus said, "I am the true vine,and my father is the vinedresser.Every branch in Me that that does not bear fruit he takes away....obviously,if we are to believe in OSAS,then unbeliever In Crhist as well as believers.because it says here that every branch In Me that does not bear fruit,He takes away.they bundled and burned.I can say that,because believers that cannot ever bear fruit and be cut off.
1 person likes this
@sweetsue (758)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
if you may,let me impart my views on this matter.
Salvation is certain when you confess your sins and receive Christ as your personal Lord and savior. We must love the Lord with all our heart, with all our mind and with all our soul, as stated in the Bible. But being a Christian holds a huge responsibility that is why it is very hard to be a christian or living life in a christian way.This means that you have to be atleast free of sins and follow what pleases the Lord. But we all fall short from God's glory, as stated in the Bible again. From then, we can certainly loose our salvation if we will always allow sin to entice us or even dwelling on it. What is important is that, despite of the fact that human can not avoid himself from doing sins he must therefore confess and work real hard not to commit the same mistakes again.
But I really have this faith, our God is a forgiving God He will always have the heart to forgive us no matter how adverse our sins are as long as we don't fail to ask for his forgiveness.
God Bless!
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I wasn't finished. I am saved. I gave my heart to the lord 5 years ago He has been faithful to forgive me of my sins. But if I decide to start going out to the bars and sleeping with every man I see. I am turning my back on Him. He Is not truning His back on me. in fact The Holy Spirit will be talking to me all the time but unless I listen that voice will get fainter and fainter until I can hear it any more. So then I have lost my salvation.
@imadriscoll (2228)
• United States
28 Feb 07
No one can obtain perfection or holiness until we are in glory... we all fall short of the glory of God on a daily basis. We have sins that we don't even realize! The invitation of Christ is always, "Come".
"This means that you have to be at least free of sins"... if this is true then who can ever be saved? If I have to be free from sin before I come to the One who can wash me of my sin, then none of us can ever be forgiven. If this is true then why would God allow Christ to die on the cross ... it would be meaningless and cruel. And we know that our Heavenly Father is not cruel.
Do I think that every Christian should strive for holiness? Yes, I certainly do. I think that in light of our salvation we need to have grateful hearts and obedient lives. We need to take every thought captive to Christ and live a life worthy of our calling, but when we fall (and we do fall) we don't need to fear the losing of our salvation. Fear doesn't come from God, that is a weapon of our enemy.
1 person likes this
@manong05 (5027)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
A person becomes a son of God through repentance and faith in the finished work of Christ. Being a son, he is assured of his salvation and nothing can pluck him out off God's hands. Sonship is never lost and there are cases that some have drifted away due to several reasons but eventually are called back and were able to restore their good testimonies as children of God. This of course refers to people who have a genuine encounter with God in faith and not just a head knowledge and went through rituals of acceptance. If God will take away the rights of sonship everytime his children sin, nobody will be saved. Salvation is based solely on the unmerited favor of God.
1 person likes this
@sweetaspie52 (2359)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I believe that once a person is saved than they are always saved too but you can backslide if you have disobeyed a commandment than you ask God to please for give you of your sin and to live in your heart again that is what I believe
1 person likes this
@taurus54 (317)
• Philippines
28 Feb 07
Once saved always saved?
What does Jesus mean when he says "All men will hate you because of me,but he stands firm to the end will be saved".
What does paul mean when he says " I have fought the good fight,I have finished the race,I have kept the faith".
1 person likes this
@rajikoshy (741)
• India
28 Feb 07
lord jesus christ is our loving father, he forgives, still make mistakes he helps us not to do it, still gone, he punishes us mildly, you give your heart to him one you are saved, but tests come and go..
@pooksywooksy (1006)
• Indonesia
28 Feb 07
Where there is grace there is forgiveness. That is the truth!
Regarding lose salvation, it's just not true. Once you've been given the salvation, GOD would not take it back. It's not like a child, when they give you their toy, they're mad at you, they could just bluntly say, give my toy back, because I'm mad at you.
So, in my honest opinion, I don't see GOD like that at all. Once you have been given the salvation, then it's yours.
@Dano11 (173)
• United States
28 Feb 07
I agree with the Scriptural support of permanent salvation, even though we can fall away. Sometimes God wil allow us to have our own way and to apparently fall from grace, but I believe those who are truly saved will come back. God will only allow you to fall so far, then He will bring you back, and in that bringing back will use our own weaknesses and failures to make us see that we can really do nothing without Him.
1 person likes this