Table of Elements
By BourderHouse
@BourderHouse (749)
Philippines
March 4, 2007 7:45pm CST
I am into science but some things since my memory got screwy I get messed up on, well today I was watching a special on the Table Of Elements and it was actually on something else having to do with it. But on the the show they mentioned every element has to do with HEAT. If it wasn't for heat we wouldn't exist, same as the elements. So if it wasn't for the Big Bang nothing would be around.
So while I don't know if thats correct from a science (non religion) aspect it got me to thinking....
If all elements in the Table of Element need heat to exist,
and that why everything exists. And they claim everything got here from the Big Bangs heat...etc. Then wouldn't that mean the table of elements wouldn't apply to christians then?
I see christians use it all the time and that doesn't make sense. How can we use something that says everything comes from heat, and if as such we came from the big bang! That would conflict with our belief that god created everything.
Or is this show just wrong and not all elements need heat to exist?
5 people like this
6 responses
@poom2007 (93)
• Mauritius
5 Mar 07
frankly speaking i do not properly understand your discussion. For me a table of elements represents what i have studied in chemistry at school where the elements are classified in groups and periods.if i'm not mistaken i think there are 101 elements in the table of elements which is also known as the periodic table.
2 people like this
@nairdaleo (104)
• Mexico
5 Mar 07
Yes, the table of elements is much more known as the periodic table.
The religious dispute... science is not a belief system. You can't "believe" in what science says.
Science is a categorised compendium of knowledge obtained through years of objective experimentation. Of course, there's always the dilemma of how objective something can be if we're so limited in our perception (and the abstraction of our minds)
That's the very 1st reason science isn't restrictive. But to what's already proven, it says: "prove me wrong", and to what isn't proven it says: "prove me right". And that's the scientific method, making that right and wrong through experience.
Seriously, you can't "believe" in science, it is what it is, but there's always room for doubt in it (Descartes - "I doubt of everything, even myself")
@aries_0325 (3060)
• Philippines
5 Mar 07
Orthodoxy and Science
Orthodoxy has neither a textual nor a doctrinal basis to reject evolutionism. Neither does it make sense for Orthodox Christians to indulge the current fashion of irrationality (since any irrationality, in the end, will favor occultism and will work against the Church). Before beginning, it should be said that it is more a novelty than a tradition among the Orthodox to disclaim evolution.
First of all, according to the views of the theologians of the very traditionalist Russian Church Abroad, "the Days of creation should be understood not literally ("For a thousand years in Thine eyes, O Lord, are but as yesterday that is past, and as a watch in the night.") but as periods!"
Secondly, the idea of evolution, given its separation from its atheist interpretation, is discussed quite positively in works by Orthodox authors. Prof. Ivan M. Andreev, having rejected the idea that man evolved from monkey, says: "In everything else, Darwinism does not contradict the biblical teaching on the creation of living things because evolution does not address the question of who created the first animals."
Professor of the St. Petersburg Theological Academy, Archbishop Michael (Mudyugin) writes: "The process of evolution of the organic world belongs to the category of phenomena in whose description in the Bible and in the pages of any biology textbook it is easy to see an amazing degree of similarity. The biblical terminology itself fits into the same surprising coincidence — it is said: "Let the water bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life." "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping things, and beast of the earth after his kind." Here the verb "bring forth" points to the link between distinct phases in formation of the animal world, moreover, to the connection between nonliving and living matter."
Professor Alexey I. Osipov, of the Moscow Theological Academy supposes: "For theology, both the creationist and evolutionary hypotheses are permissible, in principle. That is with the condition that in both cases the Lawgiver and the Creator of the world is God. All existing species He could create either by "days," at once and in final form, or gradually, in the course of "days" to "bring them forth" from water and earth, from lower forms to the highest by way of laws that He built into nature."
Professor of St. Vladimir’s Theological Seminary in New York, Fr. Vasili Zenkovsky also emphasized the biblical "creative potential" of the earth: "It is clearly stated in the text of the Bible that the Lord gives an order to the earth to act with its own strength . . . This inherent creative activity of nature, "elan vital" (in the expression of Bergson) — the aspiration to life, helps to understand an indisputable fact of evolution of life on earth."
One of the leading authors of the Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate in the 1960's and 70's, Archpriest Nicholas Ivanov was in agreement with the idea of evolutionary development: "The act of the creation of the world and its shaping are manifestations of God’s omnipotence, His will; yet, for Nature, the realization of His will is a long and gradual process, an act of maturation that takes place in time. Numerous transient forms can appear during the process of development, sometimes merely serving as steps in emergence of the more advanced forms, that are linked to eternity."
2 people like this
@Eskimo (2315)
•
5 Mar 07
I am not sure exactly what you mean by every element requiring heat, they all require temperature, some elements (like nitrogen) boil at -210C which is pretty cold, and absolute zero is -273.15C which is even colder, so nitrogen only exists as a solid below -210C.
I am also puzzled where religion comes into this. The earth itself is around 4.5 Billion years old, so any 'Big Bang' would have to have come before then. I don't think this affects in any way whether god created everything or not.
@nairdaleo (104)
• Mexico
5 Mar 07
I'm going to make this as short as I can. I'm a physicist, by the way.
The idead that everything comes from heat is the current one, and it's not "heat" itself but energy, without getting much into the foundations of that, if a particle doesn't have energy it can't do anything at all; this just to describe the periodic table thing above.
Think of this, when you feel exhausted (seldom energy) you don't want to do anything. That's how particles work; without energy, they don't do anything.
And of course, we know now that matter is made of certain particles interacting with each other. If they had no energy, they wouldn't interact.
Now, why heat? There are several kinds of energy, all at the end the exact same thing, but heat has the property of being easily transferred and transformed, and the least energy you spend transforming or transferring the more energy you'll have for everything else. Therefore, energy, assumed to be most times in the form of heat, is what keeps us from falling apart into little quarks.
As for some comments I've read about the "randomness" of the universe, it's completely off the line to define it like that. That sentence above, of preserving the most energy from every transfer or transformation is what defines this randomness making it specific. So, it isn't as much as everything will be all the time whatever it can be, but to BE they need to preserve energy, and to preserve energy, matter works itself in the form of the laws of Nature, which define how they will react. But in essence, they could work however they'd like, if they weren't after keeping the most possible energy. How is this proven? There are some elements in outer space that are not interested in preserving energy, such as (guessed it already?) the black holes, or the quasars or pulsars.
In the religious topic, I'm an atheist, but I consider the possibility. And I do think many things christians do are ironic to their own "superstrong" belief, and this is just one of many examples.
@NatureBoy (493)
• Singapore
5 Mar 07
Whoa .. This is such a challenging topic, that we have some experts in the field in the responses. Basically, I know that scientist have studied back to the time when the world was created by the Big Bang. But to me, these are just hand-me downs. Information that people have researched and passed down. As for God creating the world, linking it together, maybe he must have seen it as the most wonderful thing that he did, so he decided to do it with a blast. Research on brains have shown that the subconscious mind is able to travel, and maybe some of these researchers that came up with the 'big bang' theory actually traveled back in time and saw the making !
@emiliano75 (680)
• Italy
5 Mar 07
Mendeleev's periodic elements table.. i remember it when i went at school :-)