The Noble Lie

Canada
March 5, 2007 12:45pm CST
This is similar to Gnosticquest's thread "What should not be discussed?" Is it OK to lie when the Truth is harmful? For instance, the Truth claim that there is no such thing as Morality and God doesn't exist could, potentially, cause a lot of harm to a lot of people. Or to use a simpler example, you could tell your wife that she looks ugly in that neon green dress, or you could lie to her and spare her feelings. Which would be better?
1 person likes this
2 responses
dravenwriter
@dravenwriter (232)
•
18 Mar 07
The underlying assumption that needs to be questioned here is the definition of morality. In my view, morality is a secular phenomenon brought about through a combination of personal, interpersonal, community, and sociocultural values. Morality is subjective and changes, even if only subtlety, in every situation where it is judged. Your question can not be answered in a "universally true" manner because there is no absolute truth, especially when considering morality. If the scenario and the people involved value expressing honest opinions higher than placation, the answer will be to tell the truth. The magnitude of the scenario in the context of values and many other factors contribute as well. For instance, it could depend on things like: What kind of day has she had? Is she sensitive about how she looks? How important is the dress to her? Is she looking for emotional support and validation? Is she looking for a fight? How much do you value truth in the relationship? How much does she value truth in the relationship? Did she ask this question, or are you providing unsolicited feedback? I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point. I wrote an article on what I feel is the nature of morality, located here: http://www.helium.com/tm/215138 Draven the Respectful Atheist http://dravenwriter.blogspot.com
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MadOvid
@MadOvid (67)
• Canada
19 Mar 07
I agree with yo to a point. The morality of telling her that her dress is ugly may change according to what type of person she is, and what kind of day she is having. Yet the morality of holding her down and raping her, is something that most of us would object to. But if we do not believe in morality, then why shouldn't he? If it is true that there is not Truth, then it cannot be true that it is wrong to rape, or kill, or do what you will without any restrictions. (Please keep in mind that I do not believe people should rape other people. I am intentionally taking an extreme position here)
dravenwriter
@dravenwriter (232)
•
20 Mar 07
MadOvid, your assertion that most societies and people hold certain acts in common, especially the more drastic and devastating ones, is spot on. You seem to also assert that a lack of a absolute moral standard equates to a lack of any morality, a point on which I disagree vehemently. I believe these more common and widespread examples of bad/good morality and actions come from their close relationship to the basic needs, instincts, and societal health that any civilization requires to thrive. The further you get away from those basic similar needs, the more differences you will see in the definition of morality between varied groups of people. My views on morality and why the idea of a god is not necessary, and in fact can hinder true morality, are located here: http://www.helium.com/tm/215138 Feel free to comment, I love these conversations. Draven the Respectful Atheist http://dravenwriter.blogspot.com
2 people like this
MadOvid
@MadOvid (67)
• Canada
20 Mar 07
It may be true for those of us who are willing to go beyond morality, to travel those dark waters of philosophy beyond belief or good and evil, that they will be able to find the Truth and be better off because of that. They will be made stronger by what they discover there. But what of those who are not equipped to make that journey, or decide to go only half way? Would that journey make them stronger or weaker?
Odin27
@Odin27 (63)
• Australia
11 Mar 07
There are different types of truth, subjective and ultimate. A subjective truth such as your opinion of your wifes dress may not actually reflect wether she looks ugly in it or not, only your view of it. If you develop empathy for anothers feelings or wisdom and insight into the affect certain things said could have, you can better navigate what input you give so that it is more beneficial than harmful. I don't think rigid rules for conduct are useful considering the range of possibilities we can experience. Best to develop insight and a good motivation, a positive outcome should then arise. Considering the divide between the state of all-knowing and ignorance is so vast, we should have as much compassion and patience for everyone on their path to grow in their realization. Most people also won't abandon an idea they hold strongly to no matter the logic involved if they don't have something better to replace it.