The same old argument between christians, pagans, and athiests
By xParanoiax
@xParanoiax (6987)
United States
April 3, 2007 2:48am CST
Pretty soon I'll be known as "That girl who only talks about religion" but people enjoy arguing so much..
Lets see..where to start.
The Bible I guess, it's a good a place as any.
Many folks believe that men wrote it, to be literal, they DID. Whether or not it was inspired by the christian God is debateable..and we can all agree to disagree, right?
Many verses in the Bible (review this thread: http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/945544.aspx) can be taken VERY negatively if taken literally. But as I said in that thread if looked out another way, if you think a little bit outside the box..then it's VERY positive.
For clarification I was not saying the Bible was evil in that thread, I was simply trying to point out that people are not perfect..
Everyone views and interprets everything differently. Over time the wording of every old book has CHANGED. Which is why some of us do not put much faith in said books. We are allowed to disagree with certain parts.
People who decide to take the Bible negatively will never win a logical argument because if taken literally the Bible DOES contradict itself. Thinking outside the box of course..
No..we're not saying the Bible's wrong.
What else..
Ah yes, our different Gods and Goddesses..though yes, not all of us worship any one god so much as we revere nature, but in any case..reviewing history not all gods demanded human sacrifices or nasty things done to children. And none of us earth-loving people would join up with one of those anyway. It is unfair to say we eat babies or that we worship Satan in drag just because we view the ultimate powers of the universe differently than you do. History may have turned out much differently without christianity, with its share of troubles, but I don't know how much worse it would be without it. No one can know since we are not all knowing and history when it comes to it's timeline is one of the trickest things to guess or predict.
Athiests. Just because they don't believe in God does not mean they're going to hell..because most of them are looking for proof and backing for things. They're trying to be rational..you don't see any of THEM going about murdering people in the name of anything..and you probably won't. Just because they don't believe in God does not automatically make them evil or that they're going to hell.
History is sometimes the best judge. Many religions are stained in the blood ignorant people reaped from innocents. Most of paganism is violence free..of course we have bad apples just like everyone else, but the factoid that we've never felt the need to convert or sway people to our way of thinking is a big factor of how few bad apples we've had compared to the larger religions -- and no you can't argue that our smaller numbers are why, because we may be slightly smaller than other religions..but we've always been around. The number's only smaller by a small amount compared to how large our population is.
Christianity has been taken the wrong way a few times. More so recently only thankfully no country-wide bloodshed..just hatred. To look back some we see the Crusades and the Witch Trials.
A few famous villains in history were athiests (by the definition that they didn't believe in God) but by comparison you didn't see them with enough power to sway a whole world to their way of thinking.
Anything can be taken the wrong way. ANYTHING. The most beautiful belief system in the world can be twisted into something perverse and evil. To point fingers at other religions which have either learned from past mistakes, admitted them, or else are still peaceful is stupid. It's not up to any one human being to judge what's right and what's wrong for the world over. We are simply too diverse. And actions and intent are often too complicated..because there are many factors contributing to all of this. All we can do is decide how we think about things. All any of us do is what we think is right. That should be enough for God or the Gods..if they exist at all. All of us could be right, only some, or maybe we're all wrong. Religion, spirituality, is just a way of seeing things, of helping explain them..a lack of it is also a way of seeing things and explaining them.
Someone can believe in no God or Gods and still be spiritual. Please, don't generalize, folks. Try thinking outside the box and try to see if you can meet someone else's point of view.
Thanks.
((A Note: This is just something random I felt the urge to write. I'd appreciate any points of views on this subject, though you don't HAVE to comment on anything I said if you don't wish to..so long as you stick inside the subject. There are no wrong or right answers, I won't minus your post just because I disaree with you. I like disagreements. Everyone has an equal chance of getting the best response when this month is over. I'd also like to say sorry if any of you are getting tired of hearing me talk about religion lol)
7 people like this
10 responses
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
3 Apr 07
"It is unfair to say we eat babies or that we worship Satan in drag just because we view the ultimate powers of the universe differently than you do"
I agree! and I have to admit that I get so sick and tired of ppl (generally Christian fanatics in my experience) claiming and worse yet spreading lies like that to others (like their children!)...
and I also agree that ppl need to start thinking outside the box which IMO also means thinking for THEMSELVES rather than simply reciting passages from a book they've been taught to believe is true, the only truth for that matter in all the flipping world! Not only is that narrowminded, trapped way of thinking damaging to that person but its also damaging to their children, and so on....Such negative narrowminded thinking has NEVER done anyone any good...Isnt it time to let it go?! I think it is
GREAT topic paranoiax!!! Excellent!!
4 people like this
@CinderInMySoul (4717)
• United States
3 Apr 07
very nicely put. without being rude or insulting to anyone.
and the fact remains that none of us will know what the truth is until we die. and end up in heaven/hell, with virgins, as a flower or just poof into nothingness. lol
we can always consider the "theory"(lol) that Southpark has recently introduced....that earth, and its variant lifeforms etc...are all part of a hugely popular alien Reality TV show!
so...guess who's going to be voted off the planet next!!
(please take note of the "tongue in cheek" attitude this was written in! hehe)
3 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
3 Apr 07
Haha, that's very much like my theory that we aren't really real...just characters in some artist's book. Here simply for the 'real people's' amusement..either way though, it WOULD explain alot, wouldn't it? Lol.
Anyways, thanks ^_^
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
3 Apr 07
Once again I have to tell you how awesome you are! =p
Personally I really just want to say that I find it amazing that these beliefs (or nonbeliefs in some cases) can't live together online when they so often do offline. I can't count how many people I deal with on a daily basis whose beliefs are different from mine, and it's very rarely than any of them argue with me over it, even when discussing religion!
I'm so glad that you pointed out that Christianity (and the Bible) can be positive as well as negative. I know a lot of people who think that because I'm pagan I hate Christianity, which is just silly because I married a Christian! In fact, there are quite a few people I know that follow the Christian faith that I honestly believe that religion is the proper place for, just as I believe some other people are in their proper place being atheist, pagan, Buddhist, etc.
3 people like this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
3 Apr 07
"I find it amazing that these beliefs (or nonbeliefs in some cases) can't live together online when they so often do offline"
ahh but do they REALLY live together offline? I see so often and have experienced it far too many times along with my kids, some of our family and friends etc that those who CANT think or live outside the box generally widecircle and when possible completely avoid those of us that do....See where I'm goin with this? Sure we co-exist but i honestly dont think that we live together (in harmony or with compassion in some cases)...
"I know a lot of people who think that because I'm pagan I hate Christianity, which is just silly because I married a Christian!"
LOL Yea I get a little annoyed and quite frankly find it rather insulting when Chrisitans (or anyone for that matter) assume that because I am Pagan I:
- hate Christians
- am abusive to my children
- am full of hate
- am sad, depressed and suffer from self loathing etc
- am uneducated when it comes to Christianity
to name a few....because all those assumptions are WAY off base..
- I dont hate Christians at all...I hate arrogance, narrowmindedness, hatred, discrimination, fanatics and so on...but I dont hate Christians OR Christianity
- the last thing I am is abusive to my children and to attempt to connect my personal spiritual path with child abuse is just sick and twisted and I think that the ppl who have that attitude need to take a closer look at the skeletons in their closets
- I'm not fully of hate at all..in fact Im a very loving, compassionate, kindhearted, empathetic woman and always have been
- though I have and do suffer from extreme depression..my spiritual path is NOT the cause IN FACT when I was a believer in Christ my sadness was enhanced sometimes to very dangerous levels...
- wrong again...I've read the bible from cover to cover...I was some time ago a very devoted Christian...just because I no longer am doenst make me uneducated (in fact it IMO makes me MORE educated)..it doenst mean I "lost my way" etc etc...it means...I know better for me personally...
3 people like this
@arcadian (930)
• United States
3 Apr 07
On this page there's a spinning cross of many colors and the words hobbies that I enjoy and religion. I really had to chuckle- because the absurdity of placement with your searching statements.the word anthropromorphism is almost never tossed around and yet its something we misguidedly do- attributing human characteristics to non human beings. It seems the more casual a person is about life and the quality of living the more complex their willingness to create soap operas that star their personal pets. Which unfortunately includes god. The story of Jesus whether a wonderfully contrived myth or a historical entity is a deeply moving one. While the story of Paul is another matter entirely. Jesus, brilliant, compassionate, funny- human and powerful, eloquent- this man has been featured in calendar art floating in air beside a man in a suit with a briefcasee in his hand. Is there any need for me to add LOL or expound in anyway on my point. Christians seem remarkably unmoved by the Jesus saga, while they are ready to open a vein all too often over Paul. Well...,if anyone gives a r--a-- here's what I believe (or imagine with a lot of feeling) there's a core of energy whirling somewhere. We are part of it. Everything is. part of our energy is experienced as consciousness by us. It is a limiting factor and enables us to feel separated. With it as a filter we attribute density and other measurements to ourselves calling it a definition or identity; and have created a symbol structure to confine what we consciously exchange with other identities as language, display, whatever. I suspect some have a thinner filter than others and caught a glimpse of this more clearly than mine- and can be identified as mystics (or allah, or hp's) and that they have attempted to convey to people who anthropromorphize a concept to enable their far flung sparks of energy to come closer to the center and these efforts become The Word. Koran for Muslims, Talmud for Jews, Bible for Christians,and so on. Beautiful and mysterious writing all of it, creating an image of the core of being as human but majesticand the way to be alive in that whirl of energy takes on the structure of stories and instructions and laws. We return to spirit being whatever we've created intentionally or not of ourselves, and lose our selves.
2 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
4 Apr 07
That's an awesome view of things,hun.
And I think it must be very true. It's very similiar to my views on how everyone's probably right -- there's simply too many similairites between all of the different faiths that I've noticed so far for me to logically discount the theory.
And lol..the religion as a hobby..I wanted people to actually see the discussion..and it does have to do with religion, and even though I had how silly it is to think of religion as a hobby -- though frighteningly enough for many it IS that -- you know lol. I guess I wanted to see how many people would reply if most of the peoples did - did you know there's more peole on here in the 'my hobby is religion' category than there are people who read Harry Potter? It's amazing. Anyway..lol
Thanks for replying, dearie. Much food for though there.
2 people like this
@wachit14 (3595)
• United States
3 Apr 07
Wow! I love to talk about this stuff, but your post was so darn long that I don't see where the question really is. Perhaps if you were more succinct in your posts, more people would get involved. Religion is a very personal thing anyway. The only time I get incensed is when certain groups want to take over the world.
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
4 Apr 07
Two ages lol, I think it's safe to say people are getting involved *smiles*
'sides, it may be a bit mean of me, or sneaky..but I want people to read more. It's good for their brains..XD
Anyway, I did say what the discussion was about at the bottom of my post..it was just something that's been on my mind, and I just wrote it..and I was curious what everyone else's thoughts were on the subject -- long post for something simple, yeah lol.
Anyway..thanks for sharing your opinion.
1 person likes this
@universalsameera (187)
• Australia
3 Apr 07
You have made this topic with an open mind. That is a very good thing. This is my view on this matter. As you have said I agree with that most of the things said in the bible should be looked outside the box in order to understand it. I think the concept of god itself should be looked outside the box. Maybe replace the word god with nature/universe. Personally I don't believe in a god and I'm a Buddhist. I believe in cause and effect, karma. Only we can help ourselves.
3 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
3 Apr 07
I always try to keep an open mind :)
That's a pretty good and very open view of things, methinks.
I believe in cause and effect and karma as well. I differ a little only on the last part..sometimes we need a little help, but most situations we get into we can get ourselves out of.
2 people like this
@lilyruth (723)
• United States
7 Apr 07
My dear friend: I myself do not ever get tired of you speaking about religion for it is a very interesting and debateable discussion. Many things you said I agree with and you are so right about people sometimes reading and making out the wrong meanings. Every mind is its own little private world and each one thoughts are different in many ways even if we agree or disagree with what the person is talking about. None of us should jugde whats right or wrong for in the bible it says let no man judge let he be judge by me. And I think it is only right that the supreme being should be the only one who can truely judge us since he created us.So my friend you continue to speak all you desire about religion because Im one of the people who is always interested in hearing what you have to say. Keep up the good work and always , always Speak whats on your mind cause this is what mylot is all about..
1 person likes this
@Willowlady (10658)
• United States
3 Apr 07
I think that when it is all said and done that we all might have a surprise. Whether is it pleasant or not...who can say.
I think that any of us can have a thread of the truth and be able to learn from one another. Hate and mean thoughts do not add to the discussion they actually stifle any progress and possibility of finding the truth. We all seek that I think. Just my thoughts today.
2 people like this
@sensesfail (2251)
• India
3 Apr 07
yeah i'm one of those whom you mentioned in your final note and i'm kind of tired of your discussions on religion.lol. No offence but you know you get into trouble when you do this then why do it?
I'm speaking as your friend and you know that friends do and say things for your good.So forget about it.You follow your principles and i'll follow mine and others,leave them what they want to be.It like the robber knows he'd get into trouble for stealing but still does it because he wants to be who he is--a robber.
Once again i like you to know that i'm not angry with this and i know that you wouldn't bothered even if i was but i'm saying this only over the concern i have of you,thinking back of the so many times you've been hurt,arguing with people who are intolerable and not polite to you.
1 person likes this
@sensesfail (2251)
• India
3 Apr 07
btw funny posts by both of us.The topic is something and we're talking about something else.lol.
i should be taking the blame for it i guess.
Talking about what you were saying, what is the "TRUTH" ? And whaterever you said about saving someone instead of keeping mum is totally right.But the fact is you are not saving anybody here cuz nobody's in trouble and nobody asked for help.
Not tryin' to beef though.I just wanted to appreciate you for that for taking whatever i said in the way it was mean to.You know that i like you for the way you are and thats the sole reason I'm here talking to you.No issues i totally understood whatever you had to say.I'll always enjoy and have enjoyed making replies to your posts.Nothing's gonna stop me from that unless you want me to. *smiles*
2 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
4 Apr 07
Lol..that is true. But see I'm not TRYING to save anybody.
My point was that I should be able to say what I think is true..and it's not like I'm going around telling people to believe this or that..I'm mostly defending others who're being told to believe this or that by others. I'm not saving people..just defending them. I was just trying to tell ye via metaphor..lol
And my entire point to my 'truth' is that everyone's 'truth' is different and that it's folly to project it onto everyone else especially when they're not interested. I'm not doing that because I'm not trying to change anyone in here and people have made the choice to reply to my thread..and evene then I'll say "Thanks for contributing, that's lovely..I disagree in factions but you can believe what you do, and I'll do he same."
Anyway, I'm glad some folks do like my discussions lol.
It is funny how our two discussions kinda ran together a bit there.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
3 Apr 07
I haven't been hurt arguing with people over this..no one CAN hurt me simply arguing about it. In situations in my every day life..well, I'll take my chances.
I'd rather get killed telling the truth than for lying or keeping quiet.
Why do I keep sayin' things? Because people are THINKING it, because I'm tired of people dancing around it. Just TALK ABOUT IT already..you know? Besides, I'm not the only one who thinks everyone should get along.
I'm not tellin anyone to follow my principles..I know people won't all like what I say.but I never cared what people thought of me anyway. People can all think of me as they want..they can all believe whatever they want..I just would very much like for people to stop judging others..to treat them like human beings..an that's why I do what I do.
It'd be very selfish of me to not say anything when someone else is being verbally attacked in another thread for disagreeing, just so I wouldn't be scolded too. Likewise it would be wrong for me to do nothing if I saw someone getting mugged worrying about my own safety..you see?
I appreciate that you're concerned though..it's nice to know people do care sometimes. Anyway..I figured you were tired about all my topics on this lol..that's one of the reasons I had the note lol.
I guess I am a bit bold..but isn't sad that we live in a times when it's bold to create a discussion where urging people to treat eachother nicely can land one in hot water? If I didn't mention the conditions of which people mistreated eachother people probably would agree with me..as it is, I tell it as I see it..which I guess is kinda close to the truth if it isn't the truth..it must make pople incredibly uncomfortable then, that I like how they disagree with me..but won't put up with how they treat others..and yet won't force them to change..hmm.
If I have any say at all about it, I won't let it progress to a point beyond that. That's how we give up things..letting stuff slide until it becomes to great for a single person to do anything. I'm not sure if it could ever get that bad..but you know..you see my point, right?
Sorry..I kinda went on there lol.
2 people like this
@Galena (9110)
•
3 Apr 07
I think the problem is, some people can't discuss it without feeling like they have to tell everyone different to them that they are wrong.
you can beleive it. by definition, I beleive nearly all religions are wrong. everyone beleives that every other religion isn't the one that is right, or they wouldn't be following their own religion.
but you don't see me saying, oh, well beleive what you want, but when you die and meet the Gods, you'll realise you were wrong.
because it's childish. no one has PROOF. only beleif.
and we should all be able to discuss our different ways without resorting to childish name calling, misinformation and telling other people that they are wrong.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
4 Apr 07
Yes, Dan but what if the person who believed in the Bible their entire life found out THEY were wrong upon dying?
(O_o this is sounding alot like one of Pangeacat's discussions! Omg deja vu! Lol)
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
4 Apr 07
Once more I'd like to add, I'm not sayig you're wrong Dan. I'm just pointing it out like Galena was. When we die we could find out that NONE of us were right. Or MAYBE all of us were.
1 person likes this