Is there any atheistic?

In ancient times, "pagan" was used to mean both "country-dweller" and "non-Christian". In modern times, the word "Pagan" encompasses a whole group of religions. Among these religions you would find ancient beliefs of many peoples: Egyptions, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Celtic, and many others, as well as newer religions that either mix a lot of old ideas or are entirely their own thing. Most pagan religions are nature-centered, polytheistic (beliving in more than one God) and involve beliefs in a spiritual world and ritual practice. However, these are HUGE sweeping generalizations. My personal "Pagan" religion is Celtic Reconstruction, meaning that I follow a modernly reconstructed version of the religion of the Celts (who most notably lived in the British Isles, but also spread across much of Europe). I believe in many Gods, in personal responsibility for your action as opposed to salvation, and in a spirit world that coexists with our own world. =) Sorry if my explanation ran a little long, but it's a very complicated subject.

WOW don't say you're sorry!!! It is very interesting and I love long answers. I try to learn all I can about any religion, and I try to believe in them all. I have a pretty good collection but I didn't heard before about european religions reconstructed, and this sounds very interesting. I want to know more. I'll research on that, but I also appreciate if you help me go deeper on that. It seems similar to what Tolkien wanted to do, right? I've heard he was inspired by things like that. Very nice post!

Very interesting... what is Pagan? I thought it was any stranger religion for romans.

I've read the response you put in that discussion, my friend, and what's more, I don't agree with it. You say you have a way of converting everybody? No go, I'm afraid. You need a far better argument than that, to prove one single superbeing called God, which isn't a name, anyway. In my book, there are many Gods, Goddesses, Icons and Animals worshipped in different religions. Are you going to deny them this right? I am not going to preach, like some, but the World would be a far better place for more religious tolerance... from all quarters of the Globe.

I agree with you darkwing and I am an athiest when it comes to controlled religion. More tolerance is what is definately needed.

there is not a real prouve, just a mind trick that cannot be replied, because anyone has at least one belief (in reality, in truth, in life...) so I use their beliefs as they use religious one to confuse them and make them take it in a new point of view. Check out my answer there in a similar discussion : http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/810779.aspx

There are exceptions to every rule and all religions are not the same. I am a Buddhist and an atheist. There is no contradiction in this. In the words of the Venerable Dr. W. Rahula; "Man's position, according to Buddhism, is supreme. Man is his own master, and there is no higher power that sits in judgement over his destiny." I love nature as much as anyone. I see incredible beauty in a sunset but that beauty is not diminished because I understand that the colours are produced by the refraction of light caused by dust particles and water vapour in reaction to the angle of the light. The natural beauty in this world dose not require a supernatural explanation when a simple one will do. Buddhism has it own moral code, found in the teachings of the Buddha, which can be summed up by "do no harm." There is no need for a set of rules imposed by a supernatural being.

Ok, I am a theist who does not base my beliefs in faith, so the discussion with me will be different. Perhaps I don't convince you, but I'll give you things to think about and none has given me a correct refutation for them. I'll post them later.

Ok you're taking the discussion to a higher level, interesting. I already knew about atheistic buddists, and I know what they mean, it is one of the most logical atheisms for me. But you say beauty is not diminished because of its scientific explanation, and I have a lot to ask about that: First, I said you're diminishing some way science, and you didn't answer, so if beauty is related to science, this still doesn't mean this science is not God's hand. how otherwise could it be so coherent? I mean, man can imagine a mechanical system like nature is according to your cold scientific vision, but can he change universal minds so that everyone loves his invention? Second, what is your scientific explanation for the beauty of woman body? Does it also come from water vapour and opctical effects? lol Third, you didn't say your opinion on the religion I found with some scientific "predictions", things tha were discovered mostly at the begining of the 20th century and are still in scientific discussions. Isn't it what you asked for? I have one more question, related to moral code. Cannot your god be some kind of global conciousness, similar to karma (osogbo in the religion I was telling you)? I never said god must have a human form, or even a life form. Some say an energy form, and I would sya it also can be an idea form, all this forms are metaphysic. At least you accpt metaphysics, rigth? Ok, I just mean that moral code is over man, I think. Anyways, nature or science or whatever, is over man too. I think you have to admit my discussion is not like the ones you criticised on your web, I'm seriouly taking into account your arguments. I'll build a list like yours, with the things I would like to be prouved to become atheistic. But for me it is a mind thing, and I think I have already thought all kind of arguments for and against, so it won't be easy. Thanks for your post and your challenge, interesting. But now is your turn to explain your refutation longer and clearer, or should i take this "exceptions to every rule" as a surrender? :)

I read your first two responses to Chiang_Mai_boy.I disagree. Faith is enough for some people. They don't need proof to believe in G-d. And religion doesn't have to be proven to be true. Even if it is false , some people will still believe. This reminds me of the scene in Crimes And Misdeanors where a character is asked if given the choice he would choose G-d over truth.

I hope you like Crimes And Misdemeanors.

I am sorry I took so long to answer, sarahruthbeth22, I didn't noticed your post until now :( "Faith is enough for some people." That's ok, but is not the case of this kind of scientific atheistics, and if I can help them with a scientific demonstration, isn't it some kind of evangelization? I agree religion doesn't have to be proven to be true. Even if it is false, it is still valuable as a culture and a human manifestation. I have not seen "Crimes And Misdeanors", it sounds very interesting, I'll try to watch it. Thanks for your post!

That is the right sentence, but perhaps not the good explanation. what I do is take it from the end and get the story back, you'll see if some of them answer. They usually don't really convert, but they can't refuse me :P.

That's a typical Christian thing to say Rev. I'm not a Christian, but I'm a believer... it's just that my beliefs are slightly different to yours! Can you not handle that different people think differently? If we were all the same, this would be a mighty boring world, don't you think? I don't feel any one religion has the right to dictate who or what anybody should believe in and when it comes down to the nitty gritty, you would probably find that most beliefs have a base, and in that base, there is an element of the belief which agrees with all the others. They just have a different way of doing things, like anything else in this world... even the same job. I am of the firm belief that if people were more understanding of their fellow men and women, their religions, their beliefs and their gods, goddesses, etc... there would be a far more peaceful world than there is these days. God is a general term as well, not a name. What name do you have for Him? I can name all mine! Why must we argue, and try to convert... no one of us is that self-righteous in our beliefs surely, and we certainly can't prove whether we are right or wrong until our time on this Earth is finished, so please, give us a break. Brightest Blessings, in love and in light.

i agree however when one faith begins to kill in the name of there god i must speak out against it if we could all coexist in peace i would remain silent comfortable in my own faith and allowing others to make there own choices however as long as there are people dying in the name of someone elsed God i can not keep silent !

I also do not care what God someone believes in except they always seem to pick one that demands retribution and blood sacrifice. I am so tired of religion and all the blather that goes with it I could just close one eye and fart.

Of course I won't hate you for your atheism. My beliefs are also weird and many believers wouldn't accept them. So no sword, just sharing of ideas, what do you think?

You are wrong, I only close one eye and fart when I can't figure out wether to crapp or go blind.

i just want to correct something in my post , there is only one not the sun not the fire not the cow , thank u

i am not sure that i understand your words , or maybe you didn't understand me well , yes GOD is above but all the spirituality forces is also come from GOD above , every thing move or change with him order , and you didn't understand me too when i said : i realise my self , that mean i tried and tried to do the same as you do , but i discover something very important , that the change come from the inside of the person not from any one else , GOD will never change people until they change what in them self , not me , not you , every one is so believe in what he believe and he will stand against any one who try to change , and the only thing that can change his mind is his spirituality inside him , the only thing can effect him that him , that in one moment think right , analyze his thought , maybe then he will see the truth , maybe not , but whatever i say or argue about i will not change his mind , he is the only one that capable of doing that .

Thanks for your post. I agree, but I think you are a little bit forcing. Why couldn't theere be a God above and then the spiritual forces of the nature? they will fight, ok, but that is what they do actually: you see the sea fighting with the earth, the fire eating everything, the herb growing everywhere, storm, the time... and life in constant change... I think that is also a positive idea of the world and religions on this line could also be right.

Hi missak, I enjoy an exchange of ideas too. I'll start off by saying that I have no argument with people believing in God subjectively. I can understand how upbringing or personal experience could lead to beliefs in God and an afterlife, and if those beliefs make sense and bring fulfillment to the people who hold them, then I see no value in disagreeing with them (unless the way in which they practice their religion infringes on the rights of others). On the other hand, if someone wants to have an intellectual discussion about the OBJECTIVE existence of God and an afterlife, then I'd be happy to participate. So, I agree with you that it can get a bit ridiculous to try to think of heaven (or the equivalent) in terms of one's earthly desires being satisfied. Yet, the idea of happiness existing independent of the usual sequence of events that leads to it (e.g. a person feeling hungry then eating, or setting a goal then achieving it), sounds equally unbelievable to me. Our positive emotions strike me as great motivators for engaging in activity that keeps us safe, comfortable and alive (in addition to activity that leads to us producing offspring and keeping them safe, comfortable and alive) while we're here on Earth. We have also begun to understand how various processes in the brain work to produce our emotional states. Again it seems like wishful thinking to me, to pick the emotion that feels the best, and think we're going to get to experience it without the usual biology that gives rise to it, after we die. I can anticipate some of your objections to what I just said, based on your exchange with Chaing-Mai-Boy, but I don't want to make this too long. I'll just wait for your comments and then respond.

I am sad because I have written a great long post yesterday and then my computer crashed and I couldn't fix it until now :(. I'll try to rewrite it now, but I am not so inspired. First, I talked about the Cibernetic Theory of the Mind. I joked about I was planning to make the next discussion on that, so the ways of God are inexcrutables lol. I think this theory (which claims the things you are talking about your mind and biology) don't take into account some widely documented mind powers/feelings which are called paranormal. Also, according to this theory art couldn't exist, since you can't invent nothing (so no inspiration, no creativity) if all is based on chemical-electrical stimulations. Finally, I talked about the human eager for eternal life, at least for trascendence, which is one of the needs that religions try to fulfill. This feeling don't seem to be related to survival instincts, but to some kind of relation with a spiritual world, what do you think? I can also anticipate some of your answers. I should have made this more original, but as I said, I am not too inspired (or perhaps my brain biology lacks some ingredients now, lol). So I'll try to make it better next time and I hope to surprise you then. :)

I am also enjoying a lot this discussion, and learning from your view!! But now I have to take a while to reflect on what you said and specially on the link you gave me... I am a little sceptical about cybernetic arts, but I'll try to understand, as you are trying with my things. So meanwhile, you can come to my cybernetic discussion :). Be Inspiration with you ever, Randy Missak

Bah! It didn't work. It must be some cache issue. I see it bumped up in your list but not mine.

Hi Tanya. It is a good idea to post here, but it won't bump up in your "discussions I've responded to" since there just count the first time you answered. So it is better to keep somewhere the link for this discuission so that you don't have to search for it. You can call me Randy if you like, I don't want to be anonymus for thoose who are not anonymus to me. In that discussion I was just talking about first impressions. I'll take longer than I expected with your "free will" comments in that discussion, they are long and interesting... I'll answer as soon as I can. Sincerely, Randy

I think we should move the discussion here, it is a bit of scrolling to find an answer in the other post! I have already defined methaphysics, as things, beings and facts that comes from a concious subject (ego/soul). I mean, methaphysical facts are not ruled by action-reaction or physical rules, but by the decision of a person (in my opinion originated on his/her soul) or a decision of god, of a ghost, of a spirit, of an Orisha, of an angel... anything that comes from free will, that is totally subjective and cannot be defined by an empiric rule. Methaphysical beings are thoose who have this subjective capacity of decision/creation (thoose who have a soul, and the already listed).

Thanks! I also think that most atheistics are like you said, and just they don't like or agree with the religion of the place where they have been rised. But it was funny here to find some good reflected atheistics to discuss with...

I'm afraid you're mistaken hockeygal ... most atheists, at least the ones willing to discuss religion and the like, were RAISED religious. If you were to do a little research, you'd soon find that the bible has been most often read and devoured by atheists, so we know the material. Most of us were raised in conservative religious households that played a big part of our lives. I'll give you a quick example. I was raised christian. I was part of the youth group, choir, sunday school, you name it. My family was at church every weekend, had lunch with the parish priest, and ran the church retreats. My aunt was the church secretary and my grandfather it's biggest donator. I promise you we were not cafeteria christians. I lived that life for 20 years. I'm now a militant atheist. I write articles and blogs, I'm a member of the RRS (Rational Response Squad). I'm well researched and very well educated when it comes to biblical studies, historical studies that coincide, etc. I read everything and anything I can get my hands on regarding the farce that calls itself religion. And you know what? Out of every other person I know who calls themself an atheist (and there are many, when you consider my articles, groups, forums, communities and whatnot) .. only 2 that I can think of offhand were NOT raised religiously.

Sorry if I ofended you, Ciniful, that was not my point. What I was trying to say is that religion is not church, nor even christianity. And what I deffend is not a static organized religion, but a general and variable philosophycal idea. What I was trying to say is that most atheistics (perhaps you included, but not necesarely) are tired of what a religion community does and its lies, specially when that community is the powerful church. I am sure that, althought perhaps you are not that kind of atheistic, you should have found in all those relations you talk about, many atheistics that base themselfs on their repulse for the church, and have not tried to find sense in other religions (specially non abrahamic, which are totally different).

Whoa there, I've been in this discussion for a while (I'm also an atheist), and I'm quite sure he's not asking if you know what the word means. From what I've experienced of his posts, he's very open minded and just wants to have a discussion. He's asserted many times that his initial post about converting us was intended to be humorous. He also seems (in my opinion) to hold a deistic view of God, rather than one often held by people who belong to organized religions. He doesn't see God as a parental figure. Sorry missak, I'm know you can speak for yourself, but I think I've developed a big-sisterly, protectiveness toward you, since we started our discussion - lol.

Oh boy now you have got it too personal and seem offended DONT YOU!!! Yes I do understand Metaphysics..dont think ur the only smarta** around.I did not mean to impose my beliefs on you.I just have rational approach towards life....What God means to you,My parents mean to me...I dont need to go beyond my parents to thank someone for creating me...Get IT.For me they are the world.Religion was created by a group of people for their benefits...I dont mean offence to any of the teachings that these religions has to offer...As i said I respect them all and have learnt many good values from these religions.But somehow people end up fighting over it.I have seen many such instances.For me you dont have to be a theist or religious to be a nice person..It's what you do that defines you...Next time watch what you speak about..If we want healthy discussions then I am never shy of learning new things...anything that you'd like to share is much appreciated even if it's criticism..But spare me ur stupid questions as en do u even know what metaphysics means...Oh man!!!

Hi Darkhorse1311, this seems to me like the marxist argument. "Religion is the opium of the people" Marx said ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_People ). I also respect atheists and the target of this discussion is to share ideas and have a philosophical debat. I like for this Unamuno's reply: we shall let the people have ther religion opium if it give them peace... For me, that means that even if religion is invented, our power to invent it is methaphysical, so it practically exists. But first I would ask, what do you understand for methaphysics?

finally you stopped reading... i just wanted to say one more thing before you start.. dont ask me to read the other examples, lets start fresh. you can copy and paste..

okay, im sorry but i dont understand all 3 of your questions, well the third one i do. but 1 and 2 the grammer is wrong and i dont know how to respond to that, can you say it again? are you asking me "what makes the world go round?" "what makes survival possible?" "are you a deterministic person?" sorry i just dont want to answer to the wrong question, and then we would need to start all over. please explain again =D

I won't copy and paste, there are tons and tons of posts to copy an paste... go reading answer 4 and 14, if you want to see where I go. Thanks for your stupid long post, I'll earn some good money for it unless it gets deleted. So I'll try to post something intelligent here so that they can't delete it. Ok, forget all about the Bible, all you know about God, faith and all that. I'll give you three questions: -What is for you what goes on in the world? (i.e. love, freedom...) -What is for you what makes the world go on? (i.e. evolution, energy...) -Are you dterministic? I think what goes on in the world is love and freedom, and what makes this work is the balance between them, and I know freedom exists so I am not deterministic. Therefore, God exists. But we will discuss that later, first answer to the three questions, and if your answers are different than mines, we will start for discussing that concepts (freedom/determinism, love/perfection, etc). Are you still reading? Do you still want to debat? continue reading. I said continue reading, don't matter if I won't write more. You can find more in posts 4 and 14 so I don't have to write more unless you have new doubts. So continue reading.

First of all, I haven't read anything other than the bible, that was forced down my throat by the Catholics.... So I can't really argue any other writings. But I remember way back in first grade, the priest talked of Adam and Eve and none of it made sense in my head. Nine years of religion later I still didn't buy any of it. And I never believed it was the word of god, I always knew it was just the writing of men, men fasting in the desert who began to see things possibly. It seems to me man has to believe that there is more to their life than just their short life itself. That there has to be a purpose, a deeper meaning to it. Apparently animals are born we kill and eat them and that's the end of them, but people, ah people are so special, there has to be a purpose and after we die there has to be something else. It's just man's way to give importance to himself. So in this quest to find purpose man, wrote some books, and then you have the church which translated and translated and mutated the bible to gain power over the uneducated. I think it's all just man made hype exploiting man's need for meaning and purpose. That's all. Maybe not what you were looking for but that's how I see it. We're just here and when we die we're gone. There might be some kind of energy residue after we die but that's about it in my opinion.

When I say energy, I never said intelligent energy. Heck a rock has energy, an ant has energy. You're assuming I'm talking about an energy with a plan for this world and it's inhabitants. I'm not. For all I know this energy could be going duh all day long if that. I don't believe there's an intelligent anything that can create a plan for us or that is has power over the entire universe.... As far as Adam and Eve, you can explain that one all you want, it doesn't convince me that there is a god, or that the bible is god's word. Still waiting to be converted......

Well, for agnostic I can't say much. But for real atheist, I can share my thoughts as I did on answer 4 and 14, all you have to do is put here your arguments on why you don't believe and what you don't believe. I am not as many, I am myself lol. Just give me a try.

Hi Juline, nice to have you in my discussion! Please explain your point in a new answer so that you get email alerts with my replies. Have a nice day!

Thanks a lot for your answer. I targeted you there so that you read about a religion which accepts evolution (very amazing). I take sometimes religion in a scientific way, althought actually I am an artist, and that means I just trust on creation. I feel towards science like you towards religion, I let it pass and see what happens, to gather inspiration (paraphrasing your "gather information"). That means that I love to learn about science, but I don't look actually for a deep professional understanding of it. I'm proud you liked my discussion.

Hehe, they also say agnostics are people who "sit on the fence"! But being an agnostic is more politically correct than being an atheist, since you offend less people!

i dont believe in anything. lol...how can u speak for others?

Mmmm I have never intended to go against free will! Just I wanted to share my arguments... and if someone finds that I am right and he is wrong, do you really think that this is against free will? I think it is just a knowaledge exchange. I would also be happy if I find I am wrong and someone is right!

That's a copout response believers use regarding non believers when they want to justify why we think differently. I can honestly tell you that I believe in no infinate power. No god, or gods, or supreme being, regardless of names. You can continue to believe that we all harbour some hidden belief and are trying to be rebellious, but you're deluding yourself.

I shouldn't use that word. I didn't want to mean that word, it was just an ironic joke. I would be glad if you come to my Pagan's discussion (look at the link on Lecanis answer here). Or any other one you like. You will find I am very open minded and respectful with different minds.

I am sorry. I shouldn't use that word. I didn't want to mean that word, it was just an ironic joke. I don't want to convert anyone, just share ideas and have a philosophical debat. I have made a discussion about any religion I know, and I thought atheistics merited one also, but I needed their ideas first. I would be glad if you come to my Pagan's discussion (look at the link on Lecanis answer here). Or any other one you like. You will find I am very open minded and respectful with different minds.

That's great! I will be waiting for your view on that Pagan discussion :)

Thanks for your answer. I also respect any opinion, but I like the philosophical debat.

Hi add_im, thanks for answering. I respect your point of view, but I don't agree. God gave me a mind and the eager for understanding. God gave me my eyes to view, my tongue to speak, my brain to think. I don't think debating is a sin if God gave me all the tools, I think it is rather another form of accesing God. I find I help people with my debates, so I think it is a Godly thing. I cannot intrude myself in their personal relation with God, just I can gave them the keys that mad possible my personnal relation with the God.

To have a personal relationship with our Savior doesn't require His people any debations...so if you are one of God's children, you do not need to have a philosophically debates towards others but instead you are going to help them know the Lord personally in their lives and pray for their souls, that's the only key...not debates.

An atheist wouldn't even consider converting anybody Rarrimalion, as they believe that we should all find our own beliefs with which we should feel comfortable, and we should be able to follow them without any interruption from others, or attempts to convert. So, this would not even be an alternative, I'm afraid.

Well, I think what she wanted to mean is if I am open to follow their arguments, and if I would admit I am wrong if their arguments are better than mines... Actually I got good arguments in answers 4 and 14, I have learned a lot.

Of course, if they can find arguments and philosophical answers and refutations to what I said. Do you think they will be able to do that? have you read the long answeres? I think they won't, lol .

That is also my argument. I think I can also learn from people that don't agree with that, trying to understand why, if for me is so clear. Thanks for your answer, and happy to be your new friend :)

I am neither against atheists. This is just some ideas exchange. I guess you do believe in some methaphysical being, such as your "personal values" seems to be...

That's beautiful. But that is not atheistic in my opinion: you believe in something (nature). I think is the same to what I call Mother Nature, which is more like a theistic idea.

Yes, seems to be.. I am a naturalist. :) And I'm proud of it.