Immigration and American Indians

I am part Native American and no I dont think it has anything to do with the native americans we are here have been for centuryies Way before any outsiders came in to take away the land that our forefathers fought to hold and they were brave to be sure. But no immigration started in 1492 when columbus founded the americas. Not sure when every one got to Ellis Island that goes without saying the way alot got here . BUt the ones that are coming across our borders now are way out of line and they DONT need to be taking care of . We dont NEDD to give them anything. The american families now cant get by on welfare why should we you and me have to suffer for feeding and giving hospital and health care and free food too ones that come across the border thinking the have a free road ?

Well, maybe your people didn't boot the Indians off their lands, but your people DID give the boot to countless hundreds of thousands if not millions from the tip of Portugal to the Middle East to Africa! Rotten stinkin' Romans! See, you're not so innocent, after all! I joke! Actually, my family came here from Italy through Ellis Island as well. I just figured I'd play a little devil's advocate and poke a little fun at the twisted logic some people try to employ. Here's a little bit of irony that seems to be lost on most people who try to use those tactics in this debate: They mention the US government's treatment of the American Indians as some sort of rebuttal against tougher immigration policy, mainly in an attempt at evoking some sort of latent racial guilt. Yet...the very people at the heart of the debate - those from Latin American countries - are decended from people who committed FAR worse atrocities against the native people of the Western hemisphere than the US government ever contemplated. Now pointing to bad behavior is never an excuse for other bad behavior, but there is this old saying about a pot and a kettle and some namecalling that seems relevant here...

It does not. The American Indians were here and there is another point. We whose ancestors came from Europe, advanced until at the 1600s we already had a fairly advanced society, could smelt metals, build stone buildings, paint, etc. Except for a few nations, the American Indians lived as they did when they first crossed from Asia into the New World. And even those nations did not utilize the ore into making weapons, tool, etc. Even in isolated parts of Europe, people had bronze tools at least. Why did not the American Indians? The only way that we got to stay here, at least in the States, was to take land that had not been utilized. Of course in Canada, the government of Queen Victoria at the time assumed us white people were going to stay just a while and take beaver fur back to England, which is why there might be a danger that our land does not really belong to us but to the Indians.

There is a similar feeling in the UK, and where I live we have a huge immigrant population, with all it's attendant problems. A large number of *illegals* are swamping the welfare system, and are being regarded as going to the head of the queue for housing, welfare benefits, etc. The resentment is obvious in some areas, and from what many of my local friends have said, people are feeling that enough is definitely enough now. Our system is at breaking point, unable to look after our own, much less help out yet more.

I am not even sure where to begin on this topic. I don't believe that they American Indians are part of our immigration issues as they already for the most part live here. Whether we did it or not, agreements were made that now are and should be honored. An agreement is an agreement. If I make a deal with your family and something happens to me tomorrow, I would still want my family to honor it..make sense? Our country definitely needs to get a handle on immigration, but I don't believe that the American Indians are the place we need to start. However, each to their own opinion...

Immigration has nothing to do with American Indians. In reality an immigrant is treated better then any American Indian. Most American Indians live like the immigrants from Mexico. Do we help the American Indian? No but we hand everything over to people who don't deserve it.

Surley the point of the question is not to keep going over the past, but to query the right of the US to deny to others what it has asserted for itself, that is freedom of movement to other countries. It is ridiculous to assert that there were no laws, therefore everything was legal. All societies have rules of behaviour. The settlers simply declared their own rights over the land, and increasingly denied any rights to the Natives as they got stronger. Of course the past can't be undone, and the Indians were not pure and innocent; and today's Mexicans are in part descended from similar settlers. But we could try to accept that there is nothing new about migration, and that immigrants are motivated by the same human desires that inspired the Pilgrim Fathers

I can't see any connection between the illegal immigrants and Indians. After all the Indians of North and South America were immigrants from Siberia before the Bering Straights were formed. Seven of my people got off the boat in Plymouth. Maybe we should call them illegal immigrants since the US was in the hands of the Indians. It's another version of which came first....the Indian or the British "illegal" immigrants.....they didn't have work permits when they arrived.

Indians or Native Americans if you prefer were conguared by the white man, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with modern immigration problems. Yes the white man and the US governemtn did a lot wrong where it came to Indians. I won't argue that point. However that has nothing to do with people immigrating here now against the laws of the land. The modern immigrant isn't coming here as one group to conguer us. Now they sneak in, take what they can and not give back in return. They are not conguering or even like legal immigrants they are not attempting to live the american dream. It's a very different situation. Now like you my ancestors came here legally about a hundred years ago. Even though they came legally they weren't treated well, the Irish just weren't, however I do not use that as an excuse now to get things or to deny others. It's a part of history but it does not effect how things happen today. The past should be remembered but it should not be used as excuses, exceptions, or causes for what is done today.

Thank you for reflecting my thoughts exactly. As I think you know I came here legally and am very passionate in my feelings regarding the illegals getting freebies from our tax dollars. Rgarding American Indians I have nothing but respect for them and I did think they were unfairly treated at one time but that was 200 years ago and this is now.

Murderers!!! Killing all the American Indians, you did it didn't you, you are scummm!!! And you admit it do you? You don't deny it, how very dare you!!? You shall burn!!! Sorry... got a bit carried away in my little humourous shinanigans hahah, laughs laughs, funny me :D Yea and anyway it was paid for by 'civilized' european governments and companies who didn't care about the Indians or the europeans either (i think?) It's funny though.. I went to America about 7 years ago and I went to a ranch in Arizona and there was one American Indian there and one of the cowboys who was doing a tour goes 'And that's ...(whatever his name was).. he's one of the only Indians left, we shot and killed all the others..' Right in this Indian guy's face. Is that normal?

Well, you know how I feel about the ILLEGAL immigration problem. I put illegal in capitals because I have had people tear into me due to them missing that one meaning changing word. Now, as far as what it has to do with the Native American Indian, I don't see any correlation at all. I understand that what is being said is that our ancestors came and conquered, so they were in a sense illegal immigrants. I can give them that, but I can't and won't be placed in that mix anymore than I will allow myself to be blamed for slavery. Both were horrible and tragic events in our history, but I personally had nothing to do with what was done so many years ago. I guess some could site the bible verse, the sins of the fathers will be visited on their children...or my interpretation, the children will have to live with what their fathers did. But in this instance, the ywo can't be compared at all as far as I can see.

Many Native Americans had keen negotiating skills and existed alongside other nations for hundreds of years. I think a major flaw in your statement is that you view all of these extremely different cultures as one culture. They were all very different and specialized to their own region, and should never be treated as just one big category. That is like saying that Russians and Pakistanis are the same since they both inhabit the continent of Asia. Anyway, what the Native American’s didn’t have, to use your expression and broad generalization, is 1. A healthy distrust of the white man. The American government has made literally HUNDREDS of proclamations granting things to Native Americans which are then reneged on years later. HUNDREDS. Granting them money, land, an education, and public works. 2. An immune system capable of overcoming the white man’s diseases. Most of these diseases came from sub-par living conditions (like smallpox, diphtheria, and TB) which European life was rife with. I understand what you are saying about how some (racist) people see your skin coloring and automatically think that you are some white oppressor, a descendant of a mayflower resident or something. It is frustrating and, frankly, stupid to try to assign blame for what happened so long ago. What we should concern ourselves with now is the fate of those who still experience the blows that history has dealt. Native Americans are still struggling to overcome a system that puts them in the red. Most children are given a poor education not only about school subjects but about life in general. Their ancestral land has been stripped and their culture has been humiliatingly sold as a bastardized commodity. I cannot even imagine the far-reaching implications this has on a person’s psyche. That being said, there are some interesting similarities. Like the fact that much of the southeastern portion of the US was purchased or stolen from spain/mexico. These states have strong historical and cultural ties to the Mexican culture, not just because of current immigration flow but because of history itself. Also, The government denial of the severity of the situation is also very similar. So is the exploitation of the “less than citizen” state of both groups. Native Americans were denied citizenship for a very long time. Now, it is extremely difficult for a Mexican citizen to get a work visa, let alone citizenship. American businesses exploit this to extort work from these people. However, I must tell you, I in no way see these issues as interrelated. In a hearty debate of one or the other, I would never bring up the other issue. It’s like comparing apples to pocketknives. One is the result of the old administration, and involves us dealing with the aftermath. The other I the result of the current administration and is up for change in only a few years. Please, no matter what your view on immigration, vote in the next elections. Vote in your local elections, your state elections, and the national election. VOTE PEOPLE.