Enemy Detainees in the War in Iraq
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
July 1, 2007 11:03pm CST
There's a lot of talk about whether to close the detainee facility at Guantonimo Bay in Cuba. People drag out situations that haven't existed in years there as reasons to close it.
The facility at Guantonimo Bay houses the detainees in air conditioned cells, they are fed very well, they are given opportunity to pray, worship and read their scriptured freely. The health care there is better than the rest of the U.S. Military health care system (even Michael Moore used it as an example of some of the best health care available).
Yet, with all that, the U.S. is still being blasted for the mistreatment that did happen, but hasn't happened in years.
The irony of this is, in "my" war (Desert Storm), we were praised for our wonderful and humane treatment of Enemy Prisoners of War.
Our wonderful and humane treatment was, tents in the desert with port-a-pots, military cots, and MREs for lunch. There were no chow halls, medical treatment was a doctor a nurse and some medics.
So why is air conditioned cells and chefs cooking 3 meals a day to Islamic standards grounds for closing a facility, but a few big tents in the desert, with MRE lunches "humane"?
It's all in how it's presented to us. Back in 91, the Iraqi conscript Army was being held at gunpoint by their own officers. If you remember, the conscripts couldn't wait to surrender. 3 meals a day and a cot was luxury to them after living for months in a bunker... oh yeah, and the war was popular, and the press was generally supportive.
Today, detainees are treated much better, but we are accused of atrocious treatment towards them. Why? Because this war isn't so popular, the press is basically unsupportive, and yes, there are a few examples of cruel treatment.
Once again, reality takes a back seat to rhetoric, spin, and how we choose to perceive it.
2 people like this
5 responses
@muppetsnap (229)
• Canada
4 Jul 07
It's a question of right and wrong. Holding people without charge or trial for years isn't right. End of story. We need to be better and cleaner and more moral than our enemies. Because we deserve it. The shameful slick wordplay that tries to make it legal has sullied every one of us.
Even the most cursory of investigations shows people locked away for years on the hearsay of some village feud. It's irrelevant the conditions - a guilded cage is still a cage.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Jul 07
The International Red Cross has a presence at Gitmo.
Yes, there was a declaration of war. Congress was too spinless to actually use the word "war", but they did authorize it and that is all the U.S. Constitution requires.
To tell you the truth, I wish Prs. Bush would just call them EPWs, that way all this talk about lawyers, trials and "tantamount to torture" would end.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Jul 07
So we were just aweful during all those other wars too! In fact, we should never take prisoners in war time, since we can't give them trials.
1 person likes this
@muppetsnap (229)
• Canada
4 Jul 07
POWs are explicitly covered by the Geneva Convention, allowing (e.g.) access by the Red Cross, as well as other guarantees of treatment. Oh - and it requires a declaration of war, and thus some end to POW status at the end of the war.
None of these are applied at GB, in fact the people held there have been specifically denied as being covered by the Geneva Convention. So your point isn't valid.
2 people like this
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
3 Jul 07
I am actually in favor of closing the camp Guantonimo affectionatly called club Gitmo. It has nothing to do with vialations of civil liberties, or inhumane treatment. It is about money. We are spending way to much money on housing these enemy detainees. Also it is too much headache. Now with the possibilites that we might have to try these individuals in civil courts. Our legal system will be bogged down, and the expense of trying these individuals will be too much. I think that we should close club gitmo, and dump them on Cuba. Let Fidel Castro deal with them. Mexico dumps their prisoners on us why not let us dump our prisoners on other countries. LOL
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Jul 07
Glad I was here to see the 0.001% when you were wrong. It is an auspicious occasion. :~D
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Jul 07
Ah, good idea, turn a bunch of anti U.S. terrorists over to Castro.
2 people like this
@youdontsay (3497)
• United States
9 Jul 07
My only objection to Guantonimo Bay and other detainee facilities is that the war criminals have not been tried. We don't get to hear what they have done and why they are there.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
9 Jul 07
In what war did the prisoners get a trial? For that matter, in what war did the prisoners get meals prepared by a chef?
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
9 Jul 07
President Bush has time, and time again, explained what has to happen for the war in Iraq to end.
No, we don't have to lock up everyone... and we haven't.
Do you really think that all the prisoners in any war were uniformed soldiers? Do you know what happened to civilians who were accused of espionage or sabatage in every other war (including our Civil War)? They were executed.
@youdontsay (3497)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I really don't care who prepares their meals or what they are served. But if they are war criminals there are tribunals for that. If they aren't war criminals, why are they there? Are all the Iraqi combatants sent there? Are we planing to incarcerate the entire population of combatants? How long? How much is it costing us?
Why don't we just gather up all the male population of Iraq and lock them up. Kind of preventive warfare. Lock them up from the street corners, their homes, their shops, their jobs. The way the newspapers picture it all of them will eventually be our enemy anyway.
What a mess this is. Is there any way out of it? any way to end the madness?
@LightninStrike (5915)
• Saint Vincent And The Grenadines
2 Jul 07
look, Para, if you are going to tell me that caging a bunch of people (and i don't care how mean they are) with no lawyer, no trial and no rights in a military base, with no visits, no international supervision and ignoring all the international treaties...all that is good, then we don't have much to talk because then it'd be obvious that our concept of what's good and wrong is the opposite.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Jul 07
So why was it so great during Desert Storm but so bad now?
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@LightninStrike (5915)
• Saint Vincent And The Grenadines
3 Jul 07
I didn't say that. Guantanamo is a shame, if during desert storm they did the same then it's a shame too...but something bad is always bad, no matter if it's happened before or not.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Jul 07
That's my point. Yes, there were those cases of abuse, but they have been prosecuted and taken care of. Gitmo detainees are in a much better facitily than what the EPWs in Desert Storm were housed in, yet Desert Storm is used as the example of how prisoners SHOULD be treated, and Gitmo is an "embarrassment".
Btw, In Desert Storm, there was also nothing wrong with how they were housed. In fact, they lived exactly the same way our troops did.
1 person likes this
@sumimasen (644)
• United States
6 Jul 07
I don't know how I feel about this one for a few reasons. CON - Enemy Combatants vs. Prisoners of War. While I agree that we should detain prisoners of war and that their involvement in a conflict causes their human rights to be either couched or put under a microscope, we're America, darn it! We're a world leader, at least while our Chinese credit card is still good. We have to act like it.
PRO - Gitmo vs. Overseas prisons with NO oversight. I'd much rather have a prison that is subject to scrutiny by media than a secret prison camp. As soon as the documents for a secret prison camp become declassified (Congressmen trying to score political points), America lose face. It's better to be upfront, being sneaky makes things look bad.
And, if Castro had only been scouted more heavily by Major League Baseball, it would be a different Cuba today.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
6 Jul 07
Actually, Gitmo has the utlimate scrutiny. Marines who will someday be former Marines and aren't happy with the way they've been treated. ;~D
If there was no oversite, how do we know what went on there in the first place?
3 people like this
