emergency needs covered immediately
univerdsal versus private health care
weighing pros and cons
what if they were not
Do you have an opinion about universal health care verus private health care?
@Perspectives (7131)
Canada
July 6, 2007 2:33pm CST
This came up as an idea for me with the release of Michael Moore's movie Sicko. He is doing a comparision on Canada's and other countries who have Universal Health Care and why the U.S. does not. It appears that the U.S. is one of the few privatized health care countries left I would be interested in knowing what your experiences and views are on both systems. I am not saying either one is superior..just weighing in on the pros and cons. Besides I do not have anything to compare...with the way things are run here.
In Canada we have universal health care and the government pays for most everything except perscription drugs. When we listen to the U.S. media they often tout the party line and say Candadians have long waiting periods to see some specialists. That may be true depending on the severity of a condition. However, in emergency situations services are immediate...and fully covered. My husband and I are self-employed and do not have additional health care service such as Blue Cross. A few months ago he contracted a severe staff infection in his eye and needed to be treated with two rounds of antibiotics through and I.V. for one week. No questions about it...or he could have lost his eye and if it had spread maybe even his life. The combined cost of the intravenous treatment was $800.00 per bag. That did not include anything else...doctors, nurses, hospital time etc.
We were very thankful our Universal Health Care program was there and have no idea what would have happened if we lived with privatized health care. It is a scarey thought...and wonder if any other Mylotters have any views on this timely topic?
4 people like this
9 responses
@rosie_123 (6113)
•
7 Jul 07
Well I am from the UK where we have our own National Health Service, which I believe is the same principle as the Canadian Universal system, and I would support it every time. Since joining MyLot I have been horrified by the many posts I have read here from American posters who talk about not being able to afford a simple visit to the Doctor. To me this is disgusting and unforgiveable. We are all entitled to good health, and good health treatment, regardless of whether we are young or old, rich or poor, or whatever. I know some people tal about the long waiting lists here, and I know ome Brits who can afford it, do join rivate schemes to speed this process up, but if there is an accident or emergency, or if you just have a cold and want some antibiotics, a British citizen will be seen the same day for free which I feel is how it should be. To me it is indefensible that one of the biggest and the weathiest countries in the world, can find thousands to spend on war and weapons, and yet not respect it's own citizens enough to give them decent medical treatment.

@rosie_123 (6113)
•
7 Jul 07
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them. And thanks for starting such an interesting discussion here.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
12 Jul 07
I appreciate your acknowledgmnet on the topic. It has been most interesting to see hear how others view this rising social problem. Your comments are greatly appreciated...as is your empathy for those who are not given the dignity of being properly cared for in their time of need. I so agree with that as well.
I also love your ginger marmalade cat...we have two of our own. Pictures of them are listed in my photo section.
I am sure we'll connect again.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
Right on!
Your feedback is the kind I was looking for...looking at both sides of the issue and weighing the pros and cons. I am aware of your national health service...my family of origin on both sides are from the U.K. My husband's family is from there as well.
Your view about basic human rights and the entitlement of good health and proper treatment is excellent. Your are right...it is becoming 'indefensbile' the way a country that claims to provide so much for its citizens is failing them in such a crucial area. The inhumanity of it astounds me too!
I appreciated your emphasis on war-mougering while refusing to address the lack of medical services. It does make me wonder how this approach will affect U.S. society in the years ahead? This is of special concern because the baby-boomer population is heading towards their 'senior years.' More elderly...greater need for compassionate care within health services. If they are not being given decent medical treatment now...what lies ahead?
2 people like this

@lloydanthony111 (4698)
• United States
7 Jul 07
I think it's ashame that we have over 40 million uninsured people here in the United States.
The same corrupt politicians who opposed Universal Health Care receive the best health care in the world on the backs of the United States taxpayer.
They work for the insurance and pharmacuticle companies instead for the American people.
I can't tell you how hypocritical they are. I hear conservative talk radio hosts blast universal health care. They have nothing to worry about. They are covered or can afford a $500 to $1000 per month health car insurance policy.
I could care less if there are long lines. Any health care is better than none at all.
Hopefully the right administration will be put in office and finally address this shameful situation.
Lloyd
3 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
Hi Lloyd, Good to hear from you again.
Your overview on the U.S. and their health care system is well stated. You are right about the conservative media like Bill O'Riley. He claims to have a centerist polical viewpoint although I don't buy it. Anyway, he is always sounding off about Canada's system with all its problems. Yes there are some areas that need reform...but at least we are covered more than the U.S. and I am grateful.
I wish your citizens could have what we have...it is a lot more than what the U.S. provides. Maybe if enough of your citizens make a loud outcry in an organized way...you will get an adminstation that will create a system that serves the greater good.
2 people like this
@Willowlady (10658)
• United States
6 Jul 07
I am glad his eyesight was saved.
We have not had health insurance since hubby lost his job about 4 years ago. We cannot afford to get our own. Fortunately we are healthy people and do not know what would become of us if something did. We work and don't make alot of money and cannot get health insurance for ourselves through the state agency til we can get on our feet and get our own.
I fell during our recent housefire and had some burns and was transported to the local hospital about 8 miles. There is a 400 dollar bill for the ambulance, 510 for the emergency room xray and bandages with medicine on burns. And they wrapped my knee, which I still hobble around a bit. Was on a cane. We also have a 50 dollar billing from the doctor that just read the xray. We are not sure how to pay it and are seeking remedial billing through the uninsured program. Wish us luck. We will be fortunate to pay for our rental house now that we have not house since it was burned down.
Health care has become only for the rich or those that are fortunate to have it provided by the company that they work for. Universal health care should be implemented however I am afraid the the government would ruin that with too much paperwork like they have done with everything else.
Something has to be done though. Too many in this country is doing without and illnesses are becoming worse than they need be.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
Each time you offer something to my discussions I learn more about you and your family have been through. I am sorry to hear about your various challenges and sincerely hope things improve.
Your situation if a very good example of what happens when countries do not have universal health coverage. And I do wish you luck. Can you apply for social assistence until you and your husband are stronger? If you injuries and illnesses are considered chronic or long term isn't there some way to apply for support through a government agency? We have those types of systems in place in Canada...and would hope the U.S. has something along the same lines. There are disability claims people can apply for if they cannot return to work. Have you looked into something like that?
I do volunteer work at a shelter for women who have experienced domestic violence and there are a number of programs available to help anyone going through difficult transitions. I do hope you will keep in touch and let me know how things are going. In the meantime my thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.
Thanks again for the interesting views you add to the talking points here.
1 person likes this
@ladysurvivor (4746)
• Malaysia
10 Jul 07
To me private health care is able to give better service, however they demand for more money and seldom care for the public. However public health care is mainly established for the concern of the public. However they do no have enough fund so their service is not that good. Which way is which, I would not say one is better than the other. Both is equally compatible, in their own way.
2 people like this

@anniepa (27955)
• United States
28 Sep 07
The fact is with private health care the insurance company executives rather than your doctor makes the decisions as to what testing and/or treatment you can have. In some plans, including mine, you primary care physician can't send you for an MRI or prescribe certain treatments himself, he must instead refer you to a specialist or go through some other requirement a CEO who knows nothing whatsoever about medicine has determined to be "cost effective" for their insurance company. People love to say if the U.S. had universal health care we'd have long waits for doctor's appointments, etc. but guess what? We already have long waits to see a specialist that we probably don't even need to see but we must to get treatment for something our family doctor could treat us for just fine! It's all bureaucracy and the almighty dollar. People say they don't want their taxes increased to pay for someone else's health care but I'll bet most of all would actually be better off financially with universal health care than we are without it. Great discussion!
Annie
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
10 Jul 07
Yes, sometimes private health care can provide better service...if you can afford to pay the premiums..or from your own pocket.
In our experience universal health care in Canada meets the needs of its citizens...most of the time. Not always...but it sure beats those who are dying or not able to have the tests, treatments and whatever else they need.
If you read over some of the heartwrenching stories of Lecannis and a couple of others...it gives one reason to pause and consider...both sides...as you have.
Thank you for contributing to the discussion...it is always a pleasure to hear from you my new friend.
1 person likes this

@Yatayee (117)
• Australia
12 Jul 07
I am in Australia, and I believe that Canada modelled its health care system after ours. We are truly blessed to have the philosophy that every person, regardless of who they are and who they were born to, has the right to health care and an education. Yes, there are queues for some things, but anything that is an emergency is as you described. Free, and for the most part, a private doctor could not have given better treatment.
I also shudder at the thought of a supposedly civilised society that will let a poor person go without medical care, or let even a middle-income family fend for themselves when someone gets sick. What kind of people can turn their backs on their neighbours like that, and where is the collective outrage to demand that these people receive what they need? It is all well and good to say that everyone should support themselves, but are we really fair to say that about a child whose mother can't afford an operation? Is it the child's fault, and aren't we obligated as humans to make sure they're looked after?
Something that many people choose not to want to hear, is that the cost of a specialist is related to the fact that most people have private cover. They charge whatever they like because they have no guilt. The bill usually goes to an insurance company, not a person. Mechanics do the same thing with your car, the price is much higher if they know an insurer is paying for the repair! This is the truth.
Many studies have shown easily, that if everyone were entitled to free care, and the taxes slightly raised to cover that, then the "middle people" would be much better off than being in private cover. That money goes a lot further if it is pooled and managed properly. If your job no longer had to provide cover, you'd get paid more in hand overall, even with the small tax increase! The public system would be properly funded and cost less than all those specialists paying an insurance agency. All the middlemen would be knocked out along with all the waste of administration fees...
It takes guts to make that kind of change and it requires that people challenge their own selfishness... so I don't think it will happen in countries that don't have it. Sad really. You have so much to gain.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
13 Jul 07
I am very pleased to have input on the topic from Australia..thank you. The more varied the responsed the easier it is for others to make informed choices. I believe you are right about your system being modelled after yours. However, we have been noticing some movement towards a two tier system and that is giving cause for concern. However, in the meantime we are still much better off than countries that have a privatized system.
Your explation of the 'fiscal' end of the system is very informative...ever thought of running for office? Your understanding of the 'politics' behind the system is quite revealing. I am sure the average person doesn't understand the levels that are being 'paid off' rather than providing for those who need it most.
I like you question whether the U.S. would ever change their system to universal heath care. The bad PR their media puts out about universal health care allows makes it difficult to create changes. As long as the system is lining the pockets of the HMO's and the lobbyists there will not be much incentive for them to change. I agree with you the system very corrupt. If you have a chance to see the movie Sicko I think you'd enjoy it. It is very much in line with your viewpoint.
Excellent talking points...thanks again.
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
14 Jul 07
Thanks for adding to your original post. Your comments provide some valuable perspectives 'from across the pond' as they say. I love what you said about 'sunshine and the U.S. backside'...how true.
It is interesting to me how people in other contries view American politicians and their foreign policies. The American people in and of themselves have generous, giving hearts...but that is not represented by their political adminstrations. After 911 I knew many said...'why do other countries hate us'...well...let me see...look at the political history and how it has affected life in other places. Oh well that is a whole other topic.
I am surprised to hear you might be moving towards a two tier system as well. One of the things we all have to work on is overcoming complacency and standing up for what we believe. In our hectic lifestyles it seems that is becoming more difficult to do. Stating concerns about our health care is a good cause. I hope you will keep me posted about happenings there.
Hopefully your friend who is in need will find a way to have her health needs met. It is a sad statement about political values in the U.S. when these situations are so widespread.
According to Moore's research there are over 35,000,000 unisusred Americans and around 18,000 die each year because they cannot afford to pay for what they need to regain their failing health. Compare those figures to the 3,500 who lost their lives during 911...and the billions being spend to fund a war as a result of it.
I think we are all saying...'what is wrong with this picture?'
One other thing I know Michael Moore does have a website..although I don't have his web address..but I'm sure a few keywords could help you find it. When things are less hectic I am planning to check it out. Will forward it by e-mail. Are we on each other's freinds list? Feels like we already are but I am not sure. Lets rectify that so we can exchange e-mails if we decide to.
Good chatting...come again...and I'll fly over to your site soon.
Cheers!
1 person likes this
@Yatayee (117)
• Australia
13 Jul 07
We also are moving towards the two-tier system. The present government somehow thinks the sun shines out of the USA's backside and that everything they have must be better... they are slowly eroding the public system with excuses that it isn't being used by as many people therefore we can remove money. Once we remove money, if it is not as good as it used to be, it is just inefficient and should work harder with the money it has. (I'm a firm believer that you can't continue to remove money and expect ever-better efficiency just to happen as a matter of course.) The cycle perpetuates itself as more people see it as "not as good" and decide to get private care, resulting in fewer patient numbers in the public system and justification of the removal of yet more funding.
Alongside that anyone earning average wage or more gets a 1% tax deduction if they have private cover. Again, the excuse is that those who can afford private cover should have it, where the reality is, the "compulsory" nature of it keeps the election donations coming in from the doctors. International, independent medical boards have studied the setup and declared it inefficient, and made it clear that the 1% tax break would be better spent if injected directly into the health system and kept as a health system for all... but does that buy votes? No.
The movie sounds fascinating and I would love to see it. I have quite a few friends in the US who have struggled without private cover. It is horrible to see a well-educated, previously well-off lady who cannot go to the doctor for a throat infection because she has been without work for over a month. I know she would move out of the USA in a heartbeat if Canada, Australia or the UK would allow her to stay.
2 people like this

@vicki2876 (5636)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
I live in Canada and I feel that it is becoming more and more like the states and that we will eventually have to pay out for health care. First off it isn't just meds we have to pay for. I have paid for "booking fees, disposable equipment used in testing, rental fees for mental equipment etc" Never mind anything dental and or eye exams and eyeglasses. If you want to see a specialist it could take 6 months to get in and if you live in a rural area you go through more doctors than tissues.
I think people don't really want to pay out for other people's problems. We are relatively healthy family that has never really needed much services. I do believe in natural healing when possible and home remedies. Why should my taxes go to treat the man who smoked for 40 years and won't quit even though he has cancer, or the 600 pound woman's treatment for diabetes and needs a scooter yet still eat 6 burgers a day? This sounds cold but I feel many people feel that way. I don't want a system like the states but I feel like we are going in that direction anyway so it is time to be accountable when possible for your own health. Try to live a clean healthy lifestyle. That isn't always going to keep you from a doctor and I would like universal care for things that are out of my control. Basically I think there are problems in our system that need to be address.
3 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
Hi vicki2876...and welcome to a fellow Canadian---
Your insightful response is greatly appreciated. One of the reasons I enjoy spending time on Mylot is this...having a forum to present opinions that present different perspectives.
I do agree with you that our system is not perfect...and does need to be reformed in some areas. Your view that we could be heading towards a two-tier medical system is valid...and of some concern to me as well.
Your atttitude about self-responsibility and abuse of the system is also a great talking point and I do not think your comments are cold. My husband and I work in the field of whole person healing and constantly run into those who have difficulity with the idea of accountability. Many do close their mind to the cause and effect of choice in attitude, lifestyle and general health. I am glad you brought all this to be table... it broadens the discussion and I thank you for that.
Another point that your comments brought up for me is that many Canadians see our health care system as 'free.' Consequently, they run to the doctor and ask for tests that cost taxpayers indirectly. If they had to pay they might be more inclined to take the healthy, accountable living approach rather than strict symptom relief rather than addressing root causes.
Having said all this, I am still grateful for the level of universal care that we have. If Canadians created a strong, united voice and made our politicians aware of the shortcomings there could be hope of transforming it. Part of what I observe in all countries is that people become complacent and think their vote doesn't matter...but it does.
When the government wanted to D-Index old age pensions a number of years ago there was such an uproar they shelved it. Where public opinion is involved to the point that a party could be affected they listen. I believe there is 'power within the people' can bring about positive changes.
Anyway, thanks for contributing, hope to chat again.
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@lpetges (3036)
• United States
7 Jul 07
i have mixed feelings about this subject. i just cant imagine how we all have evolved into a country that cant take care of its own. i remember when we were first married, 26 years ago, an office call was 17 dollars. The doctor knew your name without looking at a chart, and most of the time took the blood work, or xrays in his office. now, the office call is 130, unless you see a specialist,, and most of the time if its not just a cold or virus, they refer you over,, so its more, they don't even remember you from your last visit, and you have to make a seperate appointment to get blood work or xrays and take more time off work. and we are lucky enough to have some type of insurance (although it is not the greatest). times are so hard for people these days. i cant imagine not having health insurance. Thennnnnn lets see - you go to prison, and you get free health care, even transplants over regular people (they could sue), a free education, a warm place to sleep, and 3 square meals a day. plus a work out facility. crazy. after reading some of these responses i just wish there was something that could help underprivleged, or even us!
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Jul 07
Thanks for your overview of your medical system. What you said about being a country that cannot take of your own is disheartening...but true.
I know what you mean about the 'nameless/faceless' attitude doctors and specialists have in some larger centers in the U.S. News coverage about the lack of concern for patients is becoming more pronounced and that is tragic. In Canada we rarely experience that kind of treatment. We live in a small town and our family doctor is paid on an annual basis. When my hubby and I go in together we have has as much as an hour of her time to freely discuss our health concerns. We do have to have X-Rays and blood work done at a different lab...but it is all covered by the system.
What you described about medical care does not sound like a country that is living up to its slogen of being 'the land of opportunity." Certainly doesn't apply to health care for those who need it most.
Drawing attention to the benefits prison inmates have is something I hadn't thought about and I appreciate you pointing that out.
I also feel as you do that I wish could do more to assist others struggling under the weight of their health needs and a financial inability to pay for them.
If you have a chance to watch Sicko let me know what you think of it. I hope to catch it this weekend and will post a discussion about it. Thanks for adding some thought-provoking views to this topic.
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@remo999 (49)
• Canada
28 Sep 07
I like this topic and feel strongly about this. I am new here and sometimes my thoughts come after I have posted my response. So here goes again..I am appalled that governments do not hesitate to pour millions and billions into their greed and power mongering...wars...and cannot look after their own. There is definitely something wrong with the picture.
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