The Virgin Mary: a raped girl or a Mother Godess?
By missak
@missak (3311)
Spain
July 8, 2007 11:28am CST
Both this thoughts are denied by the Church, but have existed or still exist and I find it is good to think on them.
The idea of a Virgin getting pregnant and giving birth to God is wonderful, whether it is true or false, literary or metaphoric...
This idea have given lot to talk about and discuss...
On one hand, there are skeptical scholars that claim Mary was a 12-14 year old girl that got raped and got married by social rules... this is what claims some atheistics and some religions other than christianity.
On the other hand, there are "semi-pagan" believers that basing on this wonderful fact, has given Mary a status of Godess.
There have been many secret societies that follows Mary's cults, worshiping her as the mother of us all. Once this cults were not secret, in early christianity, and thus were openly spread out and wrotten in some Gnostic Gospels. Maybe this societies are related with many of the greatest christian art pieces, built in her name, such as Notre Damme Cathedral.
There also have been peripherical pagan communities that have heard of the chritian story by unnoficial tellers such as pirates, and then have formed an original sinchretic cult. This is the case of The Virgin of Candelaria, appeared in Tenerife (Canary Islands) before the spanish conquering of the island, and Guanches (the natifs) started worshiping her as a new symbol of their Mother Godess religion, as the Virgin Mother of the World. It is thought that holland pirates left it there and told them the story.
Althought the Church don't like this topics, there are much more misteries related to the Virgin, such as images that cry blood tears, or miracles made in her name.
Most christian villages have a Patron Saint or the Virgin herself, and thoose are given offramps, personal sacrifices, prayers and wishes, so I think this is a manner of worshiping, very popular whether the Church accept it or nor.
So where do you stand in all this? Do you pray to Mary the Virgin? Do you think it is just idolatry/superstition? Do you think She protect us as our Spiritual Mother? Do you find this ideas related to other "pagan" feminity cults?
12 people like this
25 responses
@sunshinecup (7871)
•
8 Jul 07
Personally I never really gave it much thought about Mary. I don't pray to her because she isn't the one that stated she was the way to God. I find it strange those that do, it's a real head scratcher to me. Is it related to pagan beliefs, oh yes, but so many other Christians things are as well, it's not the first by far.
5 people like this
@BethTN81 (564)
• United States
8 Jul 07
Ok, the Catholic church looks at Mary more higher than the Christian church. In the Christian church Mary is looked at as the mother of Jesus. We worship God. NOT Mary.
For Jesus to die for our sins he had to come to earth and be born and God chose her.
Mary was NOT a product of rape. She was a virgin until she was with Joseph.
4 people like this
@edigital (2709)
• United States
8 Jul 07
Not only in Christian religion Virgin Mary became mother by spiritual blessings of God, in Islam or Muslim religion too virgin Mary became mother by spiritual blessings of God. In Islamic religion Jesus is known as Hazrat Issa (Alaihe Assalam)and Allah or God ordered to believe Issa (A) as a prophet who got the devine book. So there is no confusion about Virgin Mary was holy and became mother by wish of God as God shown whole human that He is supreme power and can give bring baby in this world without father. He is sole and alone for worship.
3 people like this
@herrbaggs (1308)
• United States
9 Jul 07
You know it is possible that the worse thing that ever happened to humans, was they learned to comunicate.
3 people like this
@naokokensaku (529)
• Malaysia
9 Jul 07
As far as I know, Muslims, like Christians, hold the Saints (including Mary for the Catholic Church) in respect, but they don't pray to her. She's a holy figure.
3 people like this
@revdauphinee (5703)
• United States
8 Jul 07
i beleive in the words of the bible that mary was a virgin until the birth of Jesus!however I also believe we are not to pray to her for there is only one way to accecss God and that is through his son
Jn.14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. ((No one))) comes to the Father except through me. )
note it says no one not even his mother nor the saints so to pray to them is futile!
@susieq223 (3742)
• United States
8 Jul 07
Like just about anything having to do with religion, there is a lot of literature as well as speculation about Mary. As you say, most Christians believe she is the mother of God in Jesus. The idea of her young age (in her teens) comes from the history of the times, because most Jewish girls were betrothed at that age. I don't believe she should be worshiped as a goddess, but certainly revered for her role in history. I think God used her to help elevate the idea of women at a time when culture put them as second-class citizens.
The worship of Mary as a goddess is probably related to pagan worship.
What I find fascinating are the many stories about miracles connected with her statues and with her appearances to individual people, like at Fatima and Lourdes, just to mention two.
4 people like this
@SEOGUY (906)
• United States
8 Jul 07
The concept of Mary the Queen of Heaven, or the mother of God didn't appear untill after Constantine. And in fact many of the titles and atributes go way back before Christianity, many other cizilisation had mother goddes, mothers of god and even the title of Queen of Heaven. I find it interesting that the first centry writers are totaly silent on this as well as the Appostals. You would think that Paul the most prolific writer would have addressed the position of Mary. So in their silance I can only come to the conclusion that she had no exalted position, Only that of given birth to the Christ. And the fact of her being a vergin whether it ment she was a young woman between the ages of 12-14 or was a literal vergin, Why could she had not been both? People must realy free their minds abit. A vergin haveing a baby is very easy to do. How? Atrifisial insemination is always a possibility. Go back and read the story again. It helps to understan a few of the hebrew sayings, It says the sprit of the Lord "overshadowed her" Overshadowing was a term of copulation. Where the Man would lift his robe and from behind the woman cover her with his garment. Now if this would have been phisical then she could not have been a vergin, so this had to be metphoricly speaking, the angel telling her that some how the seed of the Lord would enter into her. This could not be done "spirituly" if had to be a phisical seed, as a child could not have been made with a spirtual seed. What is flesh is flesh and sprit is spirit. So the only way the seed could enter her phisicly without the act of procreation would be artificial encimination. Now the fact she was chosen was a great honor, but did not make her the mother of God, indeed she was the mother of Jesus, but God or The LORD was his father so how could she also be the mother of the father? She was also the espossed (ingaged) to Joseph, So she was not even the wife of God or the LORD, therefor she can not be Queen or Goddess, She could have no possition at all in the higharchy of heaven only the Phisical moter of Jesus on earth. Now it is writen or hypophisised that Jesus was the result of a rape of his mother by a roman soilder, although again even if this did happen there is no evedence of this. Even though judia was occupied at this time by romans, one charge against a soilder for the crime of rape still would have had strong consiquences aginst that solder. Much myth has been made around Mary, even when faced with historical writings of the bible, And other writings, some still have trouble letting go of the myth of Mary,
3 people like this
@herrbaggs (1308)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I must ask, do you really believe all this storytelling or do you just like to talk about it. Also what does all this myth have to do with real life?
1 person likes this
@polachicago (18716)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I have heard about possible artificial insemination by Aliens/Angels/God....or....
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I beleive that people backthen was very wise so would think it was doctor?
That might of had a vision? to do this to a young girl and then it took and they had to find her a husband so she wouldnt be flogged or what ever the did to girls backthen that became PG with out a hubby
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
9 Jul 07
Missak,I truly wonder if you are really 22. If you are, my dear, you are most certainly an old soul.
The thing that I most love about you is your tenacity. You post the most thought-provoking posts, you don't espouse a right or wrong answer, you state some what appear to be well researched facts; and then you sit back and take HOLY crap from so many people just for asking for their opinion.
This is but yet another in your series of questions that I doubt any one person is able to answer Factually. There may be those who can answer it according to the belief system of their Chosen Path; and for them, it is their Fact; but that doesn't proclaim it a Universal Fact.
Whatever role Mary, The Virgin Mary, Mother Mary has in your personal life, it IS the true one for you. Although I am pagan, I adore statues of all Mary's and their babes and have since childhood. Just because I was drawn to them didn't make me Catholic, it just made me drawn to a beautiful, mystical woman, that I somehow felt could be called upon to help with healing. Even today as a Reiki practitioner, I still find myself silently calling out to Mary from time to time when I have been working on someone during a particularly difficult emotional session.
I envy you, young sister. I only wish that I had been burdened with seeking the type of knowledge you have at your age. I believe that you are one day going to come to some astounding conclusions.~Donna
2 people like this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
9 Jul 07
Missak, Please forgive me for making you my sweet sister instead of my dearest brother. I did have some hesitations about that. I went to the link you provided on your home page yesterday to see your art and was not able to view much of it. What I saw I loved. Being an old soul does not "necessarily" have to deal with reincarnation; although it could. It could also have to do with living life simultaneously on different planes of reality in different time spans across the Universe. I really think you would enjoy reading the series of books titled "Seth Speaks". ~Donna
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
9 Jul 07
Hi kitchenwitchoftupper. I truly have 22 since last May, but I am a boy, and happy to be your "young brother" not your sister :P
It is not the same time someone tells me that I must be an "old soul", does that mean that I have to be reincarnated? My next post would be about that, I have my doubts on reincarnations/rebirths or whatever...
I am very happy to hear about your drawn to Virgin Mary, this is what I call a synchretic belief and I think the world would be more peaceful if we all follow the goodness of each other, that is why I try to follow all religions.
Well, there is another hidden reason lol: I have been a lot of time alone with my thoughts and my books... I can tell you it is really not enviable! ;)
1 person likes this
@tombiz (2036)
• Philippines
13 Jul 07
I was once a Catholic and a faithful to the doctrines of the Trinity, Mary and other unique Catholic symbolisms. When i was in high school, while studying in a Catholic school, I began to be subscribing to different free magazines and literatures of other Christian faith, and that was where i realized that the Catholic Church, while claiming to be the true church, is never following the teachings and doctrines of Jesus Christ as could be perused in the Bible.
The idea of Mary being the mother of God and the mother of us all is one of the greatest satanic deception ever devised. Now, don't get me wrong on this. I always respect other faiths and religious inclination. I thoroughly believe in religious tolerance. I believe in freedom. This is my own personal conviction. And you all have the right to believe whatever you want to believe.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
13 Jul 07
This is not a dogmatic post, I just want to know about different opinions, so yours is very interesting also.
But to understand it, I have to make you some questions, if you don't mind.
If you say "the idea of Mary being the mother of God and the mother of us all is one of the greatest satanic deception" does it mean you believe in Satan?
If so, who is Satan and what is his entity/characteristic in world and life?
I suppose maybe you just wanted to mean "evil deception". If so, why is it evil according to you?
I am also very tolerant and just want to understand your point.
2 people like this
@Galena (9110)
•
9 Jul 07
well back then any woman was considered a virgin right up until the birth of her first child.
and there's certainly a lot of Mother Goddess parallels, but not surprising, as Jesus Christ is one of many dying and resurrecting Sun Gods.
there's more I've come across, mostly associated with Sea Goddesses, who often have names that resemble Mary. (from the same root as Marine, I expect)
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
9 Jul 07
I knew about several similarities, but I didn't knew of thoose resurrecting suns until Seoguy mentioned that here. The Guanche's Mother Godess I mentioned a mistycal Mother of the Seas also... All that "coincidences" are very interesting. Do you have more information or lines where I can research further?
@SEOGUY (906)
• United States
9 Jul 07
Not to be suprising at all as the Moon godess also has pull and hold of the seas of the world, And from the seas were all men spread across the earth. The moons gravitalional forces sway the tides, More often than that the title of godess of the sea, she is know as the mistress of the sea, as the seas domain is under anothers realm, Here she is close to the godess Diana or Herra. It is no wonder many of the sea going nations of the earth held the mother Godess in high esteam. Also consider this, When impregnated Of what is the child to be bourn suspended in? Water of course!
1 person likes this
@kayakalp (272)
• India
12 Jul 07
I just know one thing...A fact has one explanation..
So many explaination just to prove mary was virgin so many explanation too prove she was goddess!!! Isnt it strange?
When You lie and somebody asks you question U lie again to cover it up...third question,again one lie to cover it up..lies goes on compounding...there is no reality only lies and the result is so many lies just to cover up the first lie....
However, if its a fact u have just one explanation!!!
I belive in this simple funda.....
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
12 Jul 07
That is called "The Okham razor", I use that way of thinking sometimes, but for this time I find there is a refutation. Maybe it is not a lie, but a creative idea. Read this: http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1096415.aspx I think you will like it.
:P
1 person likes this
@kayakalp (272)
• India
12 Jul 07
missak
i already had read your discussion in the past....
Wotever theory you call it...for me all the religious books have some stories...they are just parables....with no historic evidence...per you it may be creative thinkin....
truth is we are dividng humanity in name of religion and we blame that GOD had created it....everybody is cut out of same cloth...there is only one universal language of love, fear, sadness, happiness etc. I dont c these emotions vary as per religion..I dont c any catholic or muslim is born in a different way then people from other religion or they die differently....how can these books or stories varies....ultimately they also teach the same thing...but each book uses different examples, different stories, each book on religion takes you to the same destination...however, few people are manipulating it and using it for their own goodness....in the process ignorance is spreadin not the knowledge....
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
13 Jul 07
I agree with you, that's why I try to believe in all religions. "There is only one universal language of love, fear, sadness, happiness etc" This the only religion. All the others are just people's perspectives on them. Then even if they are not historic, we can learn a lot about human being from them (a lot good and a lot wrong). All we have to do is making questions, as you said elsewhere.
1 person likes this
@010878 (303)
• Indonesia
12 Jul 07
I don't think that Mary was raped because she was willing to carry baby Jesus. And raped is when one is not willing to do others bidding. I never pray to Virgin Mary tho I'm a christian not Catholic but I don't have anything against Catholics. I believe God chose Mary so she could fulfilled the words of God that Jesus will be born from the line of King David. And some says Joseph was the descendant of King David. But it turns out that Mary also the descendant of King David. I saw a movie called 'Mysts of Avalon' where the earth mother statue was worshipped and finally no longer believed by the people and the people worshipped another female statue which was Virgin Mary. Generally it's a very good movie. One of my favourites but I doubt if Virgin Mary is the same as Earth Mother tho in early years of Catholics adapted many of the pagan beliefs into the church.
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
8 Jul 07
If you believe it, then its your truth! In reality, the whole story is Myth, Never happened! There no true History in the bible, Absolutely Nothing, has been proven be Historical truth. If you feel protected by any of this Myth, thats Great. God Bless you!
3 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
8 Jul 07
I don't think there has to be a "True History". I think there are some metaphysics in what people believe, in what people create. I think you would like better other discussions of mines such as atheistic one ( http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1169469.aspx ) or "invented religion" ( http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1096415.aspx ).
1 person likes this
@SEOGUY (906)
• United States
13 Jul 07
Dah,,,, what? If so the Romans wrote about this myth as well. So did other HISTORIANS. While alot of things writen are alogory and myth. Mariam and Yeshua were not myth, Get real it's not as if you were to admit thes two were real that you would have to have an epiphany and start worshipping Jesus or anything, but to denigh they even lived is just ignorent of the facts and history HerrBaggs, and there are many truths found in the bible other than religious in nature becouse thats a matter of faitgh, But alot of historical truth, so.... I won't say it. get an education miss university.
1 person likes this
@herrbaggs (1308)
• United States
9 Jul 07
Barehugs, I am with you. Why is it the human race can't seem to function unless they are chasing after some incredible hoax.
2 people like this
@vampoet (825)
• Singapore
13 Jul 07
I think it is easier to belief that she was abducted by aliens and when she came backto earth she became pregnant and thus the powers that jesus has. Besides they saw a light from the heavens and heard angels singing (aliens tokin in esp) and flyin discs and all. Just that people didnt have the notion of aliens or what not back then and decided to label jesus as God instead.
Ok...here is the disclaimer. This is not what I personally believe. But throws a new angle to the line of thought doesnt it? :p
@littlefranciscan (18327)
• United States
8 Jul 07
Read the bible..ok? Also ..if someone insulted your mother or made little of her; how would your father feel? Think carefully what intention you had in placing such a topic and remember one day who you will have to stand before.
1 person likes this
@kayakalp (272)
• India
12 Jul 07
Missak...
This is wot u get if ask a sensible question...
If You ask you are offending them...If you want to learn You are offending way...
Catholices follow simple rule...just beliv in bible blindly...live yourlife in a shell and you would definitely end up in heaven...
Littlefranciscan had already made her way to heaven and she alreayd had preaped all the answeres for Gods questions!!!!!
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
8 Jul 07
I do read the Bible. My intention here was not insulting anyone, and I do apoplogize if you feel that way. I just showed different statements that are not mine and asked for people's opinion. If you want to know my personal opinion, I do think of Mary as a spiritual mother, so I would be mad if someone insults Her.
By the way, do you think the Apocrypha Gospels, that were part of the Bible before the Nicaea Concilium in the IV century, are something bad? Actually many popular traditions such as Christmas stories that are not in the Canonic Goslpels, were in the Apocrypha ones...
2 people like this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
8 Jul 07
i guess we have two storys here , the lie or the historical reality. The lie is that the young child Mary was impregnated by the holy spirit, mmmmmm the reality is that she was raped, possibly by a Roman centurian , glutimus maximus, biggus dickus? who knows?
blessed be
2 people like this
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I have always thought of Mary as the first Christian because she had to believe she was carrying The Messiah.I don't think she was raped.I can see Mary being a spiritual mother of Christians. She is the mother of Jesus. Didn't Jesus consider mankind his brother?It fits.I think it is great that there were and are Christians that worship her.
2 people like this
@elshaddai123 (3981)
• Kottayam, India
9 Jul 07
do you have bible man read it. It says in the bible & I believe it too that Mary become pregnant through the work of Holy Spirit.This is because man cannot attain heaven unless he satisfy the requirements of the Law of God.So God came in the form of a man, to save him from his sins.It is nothing wrong in this case.Unless Mary is not virgin people will say He is the son Joseph.If you have bible please read Matthew chapter 2 and Luke Chapter 2
@elshaddai123 (3981)
• Kottayam, India
9 Jul 07
John says nothing about birth of Jesus Christ.Mary is not God that we make prayer to her.It is never commanded in the Bible.
2 people like this
@kumbarn14 (735)
• Pakistan
8 Jul 07
I think the animals will respect the blessed people of God but not human like you. Dont you have any weight in your tongue to utter such words. You have food, shelter, clothing, and whatever a human is blessed for that is why you talk with such pride. God Almighty forgives but also he can deprive all these things in a second. I have visited some of the natural disaster places like floods, tsunami in Sri Lanka. I spoke to some people, they are in a daze and so frightful, some people said it was good because it washed away the dirt and brought fear to the hearts of mankind, though these very people suffered. Please dont miscalculate your thoughts for money at somebody who was blessed by Almighty God. Your learned, but you cannot try to twist and turn things which is securedly in the hands of God. Watch out your steps a straight road may turn out to be 1000s' of steps which you will not be able to climb nor come down.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
8 Jul 07
I don't understand what all this means and how is it related about that topic. It seems that you're somehow ofended, it was really not my intention, all I have done is showing facts I find in day to day life (I didn't say if they are true or flase) and ask people for their opinion. So what is your opinion about Virgin Mary?
4 people like this
@kumbarn14 (735)
• Pakistan
8 Jul 07
Please refer to a holy book or if you are more interested please get the Holy Quran in English Translation, you will read with great love the life of Virgin Mary (Peace be upon her).
3 people like this