"God fearing?"

*nods* See, that's why I don't get "God-fearing". If this God loved humans so much that he sent Jesus to take all the burden of sin and you don't have to worry about him actually punishing your for your sin, then why would "fear"? Even the parental metaphor no longer works when you look at it that way, because it's as if your parent punished himself (or your sibling, if looking at Jesus as a separate entity), instead of punishing you. So Christians who repent their sins even though they might still have consequences in this world aren't being punished by God. Like I said, I'm not really trying to be rude here, it's just something I don't understand about your religion. It's strange sometimes trying to figure things out from the outside, when you aren't a part of that religion, but I love to learn about other people's beliefs.

I can understand that for children who have abusive parents or grow up without experiencing true parenting and parental love, that it's harder to conceive of God's relationship to us as Father, since that term doesn't have good connotations. There is forgiveness but that forgiveness means that God won't look at your wrongs, He has put them aside if you have chosen to put them aside and leave them with Him. However, we know that all actions create reactions, and so we can live out the consequences of our actions, regardless of whether God punishes us for them or not.

Its a tough on Lecan and I can't really explain it. I do understand it from Rollo's perspective though that part of the fear is a respect. But also, the fear of punishment is there at least that's how I usually hear it. Thinking about it Lecan you've brought up a great point of discussion. From one perspective its fear of not obeying the commandments, from another its respect commanded by what God has done and what God can do (I can see it from both perspectives and yea I use both faith and science when I consider it). I do like though how you revealed a little more of your gods and their love, rather than their wrath/punishment. Many other theisms claim this and that their gods, goddesses love but do not punish. Again, I revealed that there is some love and mercy in God too, but I'm gonna settle on the fear being a respect of acts and a fear of what can possibly happen. As you say, don't be offended by the post its just what I believe and my interpretation on your posed question. Oh and don't be too surprised if I don't respond as much as I usually do. Watching stuff and talking with my bro, so my attention is a bit divided ;p

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

That is pretty much it, but I also feel the love of God too. It's a bit hard to describe since in plain sight its a paradox. But remember it is faith and doesn't always need a full explanation. As for the last point I agree with a lot of that, but personally, I also suffer and toil for others [just cause I want to :)]

Darn! I answered from email and was so sure I would be the first poster to answer. Well sorry about that, seems there a few that have an answer here. *blush*

I'm glad you answered anyways! I was hoping to hear from you, because you always have interesting perspectives and explain things in ways that I can relate to. =) I think it's great that you have a personal relationship with your God rather than the "fear" relationship I am used to hearing about. It sounds like a much healthier faith! I have known many Christians (especially growing up in Kentucky) whose beliefs seemed to revolve only around fear, and I have never understood how people could live that way. It's great to hear that you don't. =)

Dear lecanis, it's strange to me that you know your Gods...a wonderful strange...:) I want to look further into this and am not sure where to start but I have an interest in things Celtic and also for some reason Egyptology. Can I choose my Gods or do they choose me. I also feel an affinity with Nature...plantlife, animals weather, seasons. It seems as though my eyes have been opened since meeting different people here and I believe I've been searching for "something" all my life.

I'm glad that you said "a wonderful strange". Usually people just kind of seem to think I'm crazy. lol In my case, my first Goddess came to me, but I was also in a situation where I had a teacher of this religion available (my great-grandmother) and where I severely needed help (because of my abusive home life). I do know some people who find their deities just through reading, and just "know" when they read about a particular God or Goddess that they're going to be a part of their life. I think honestly it's a little of both, you choosing them and them choosing you. I don't think the Gods really force anyone into following them, and I've never really seen anyone who was really conflicted over which Gods to relate to within the Celtic pantheon, it just sort of naturally happens are you read the lore. If you're interested in more than one different pantheon (you mentioned Celtic and Egyptian I think) then you're probably going to wind up following more of an eclectic path, and that's okay. Having Gods from one religion and Gods from another at the same time is something that I know a lot of people who do... it's all about who you connect with. I happen to be "strictly Celtic" kind-of, but I've also explored other options, and I think anywhere you go within Pagan communities you are going to find people who have interesting individualized paths. =) To be honest I'm a little conflicted on where to tell you to start looking into things. For "reconstructionists" like me, we're big on reading history before starting into any of the neo-pagan books out now, but honestly for beginners it's probably easier to do it the other way around. Actually, you might start a post on mylot asking Pagans to give you resources... since I learned from a family member first, all the books I can think of to recommend are a little more on an advanced level, and I can't think of much online that I've really been into recently. But I know some of the other pagans here would have some good ideas. =P

*nods* Those threats are everywhere it seems. Sometimes they even sneak up on you, when you are reading a story that seems really nice, and then all of a sudden it turns into "God will get you!" like God was some kind of boogeyman or something. My Gods are the Gods of the Celts from pre-Chrstian Ireland, Britian, and Wales. Some of the deities have slightly different names or stories depending on region, so trying to give you a comprehensive list of Celtic Gods would be very hard. However, the ones I "know well" and feel very connected are: The Dagda (which means "the good God" ,something of a father God), Danu (who is mother of the Gods), Brigit (mostly a healing and child-related deity, but also associated with fire), the Morrigan (my primary Goddess, because she was first to appear to me in dreams, a war diety but also associated with protection), Lugh (jack-of-all trades God), Taliesin (the greatest bard, a human who became a God sort of), Cerridwen (a crone deity, also inspiration), Arawn (an underworld deity)... agh already I feel I'm leaving Gods out, but my post is getting long. Normally I just say that the Morrigan is my primary deity when people ask about my Gods, because she is the first one I knew and I've called her "Mother" since I was a small child. I suppose this is why I don't get the "fearing your God" thing, because Morrigan (who is a "scary war Goddess") came to me as a child and offered me strength to get through a situation I was in, and told me to call her "Mother" (which I didn't call my physical mother until I was an adult), so I just can't be scared of her, or any of the other Gods following her lead me to.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on this with me! That is much more positive than the way I am used to hearing the phrase used! =)

But if all you have to do is ask to be forgiven, why would you fear his wrath? That's the part I'm not getting here I guess. What's the need for fear if you know you'll be forgiven if you ask?

Oh, okay, so is it really fear of going to Hell rather than fear of God himself? Fear of the idea that God could send you to Hell?

You won't have to fear His wrath if you ask for His forgiveness but only if you're truely sorry. However, if you don't then it will be God fearing for then the person could be sent to Hell. In other words, I'd fear God's wrath if I did this or that but if I'm truely sorry and ask for forgiveness then I'll go to Heaven. But it's not a good idea to know it's wrong and do it anyway and then ask for forgiveness. Only if the person is truely sorry will he/she be forgiven. Not the ones who just say "I'm sorry" but feel it in their hearts as well.

Thanks for sharing! I am glad to get many responses reaffirming that not everyone thinks of it as actual fear, because it makes me have a more positive view of your religion. I'm happy that people have not been offended, because I do so love to learn about the beliefs of others, and I feel it leads to greater tolerance. =)

Thanks for sharing, sigma77. I really loved your response. I agree with you that if your heart is filled with love, you can do no wrong. That's a beautiful way of stating it. =)

I really liked the post Sigma, I just wanted to add some comments. I completely understand what you are saying and I believe plenty of it. Live life with love, kindness and compassion and acts thereof and one has nothing to worry about. The only thing I would add is that those that do not live in this matter and if they act out, trespass on others, they are punished.

So it's not supposed to mean actual fear, like you would fear someone who is going to harm you, but rather respect, right? That makes a lot more sense in the context of a God who is supposed to be loving than the way I was thinking of it, as "fear" like "terror".

Thanks for explaining. It helps me understand your religion a little better. =)

Exactly! We should not be afraid of God, but be in total awe of Him and respect Him because of Who He is.

That's not so. Why would a person fear something they don't believe in? Most Southern Baptists refer to themselves as "God fearing Christians." I don't agree with the fear aspect. I hold a great respect for God and I feel no fear. But people who fear God are afraid to not believe in him or follow him.

It seems silly that one would fear a God they don't believe in. I really doubt any of the Christians on this discussion fear my Celtic deities, just as I don't fear the Christian God. Like Cyntrow said, most of the people I heard this from were Southern Baptists actually. =P

*nods* That seems to be a popular answer, that it's mostly a translation issue. That helps me a lot with being tolerant towards Christianity, because sometimes that has been part of what makes me angry about it. I do know some people who seem to really fear their God, and basically live their lives based on the fear rather than any kind of love or positive emotion. So it's great to know that there are many Christians who are not like these people. =)

Nope. I appreciate your concern, but I'm not going through any conflict over my own religion. My faith is secure. It's just a matter of trying to learn more about other people's beliefs in order to be more tolerant. I brought the "God-fearing" thing up because it's one of the things about Christianity that has always bothered me most, and because honestly I've always felt sorry for the people using the phrase, if that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your opinions!

No, you didn't hurt my feelings. Don't worry about it. =) I just wanted to reassure you that I wasn't going through some kind of faith crisis. When I ask questions about other people's religions, it's because I want to learn about them, not because I'm having problems with my own. I'm completely happy with my own beliefs, but I believe that by learning about the beliefs of others I can become a more tolerant person and understand other people better.

hi lecanis i guess i hurt ur feelings because of my some wild guess ,i'm sorry if that is the case may be

*nods* That's a good example, the one about grades. "I would be a little leary of any diety who had nothing but love. Granted I need to be picked up when I fall, but I also need a shove in the right direction once in a while too..." You don't think a shove in the right direction can be done with love? =p Honestly, it's hard to explain to me because I only know abuse and not-abuse, fear and not-fear, no inbetweens. I know that makes me the dumb one and not other people. It's not the fault of the people using a term I can't get that I don't get it. There are many things I don't do because it's not the path that my Gods want me on, but I don't see it as fear of their retaliation if I don't. I see it as wanting to walk the path they have me on to see where it goes, because I know it must be somewhere wonderful, if they in all their love are sending me there. =P

I think the other of the two Abrahamic relgions are more fearful in the literal sense of fear than Christians are. Christians of course have a "get out of jail free card." They can do pretty much whatever they wish, ask for forgiveness and be welcomed into heaven no matter what they've done or how they have lived their life. I don't think it's that simple, or that illogical. There is healthy fear, and that's the Abrahamic relgions try to encourage. Another analogy: If a teenager gets bad grades in school they are going to be afraid of being grounded, not seeing their friends and being forced to study. The punishment of course, it probably just what they need to get better grades, and be more productive in life after school. I would be a little leary of any diety who had nothing but love. Granted I need to be picked up when I fall, but I also need a shove in the right direction once in a while too...

Great response! I was going to throw in the idea of language and cultural context as well. When Scripture (or anything) is translated, it may change just slightly. "Fear" in this context, doesn't necessarily mean "fear" as the contemporary English language would define it. Which also brings me to the concept that most religion has her own "language" as well. Actions, rituals, worhsip-- these can all be a very symbolic language, depending on the denomination. Also, the cultural context. I'm Catholic and sometimes the words we use to worship just get my goat,"All Powerful and Everliving God," "God of Power of Might." It is not the Power and Might of God that makes God God. It is not the "fear" of God that makes God God. Now, I'm not denyg God's Power or Might, or stating that we shouldn't fear (be in awe w/ great respect). I just mean to say Catholic liturgical language is in a different cultural (Catholic culture) context in and of itself. In Spanish we often pray, "Dios Misericordioso," or "Dios de Amor." (Merciful God / God of Love). My point is that culture, and the original cultural context in which the bible was originally written, can have a bearing on what certain words mean. OK. . I'm rambling now. . . Sorryy! But I just love talking about The Faith!

Thanks for the response! You have some really good points about language. I really enjoy learning about other people's beliefs, and how they are affected by them. It makes it so much easier to get to know people if you know what they believe, and to be tolerant if you learn.

Thanks for your response! I appreciate you sharing your opinion. =)

*nods* Thanks for sharing! I think a lot of people who say "God-fearing" and mean it as "fear" have suffered greatly over mistranslation then.

Navtech, you don't have to feel you have to prove anything to me. I have Hindu friends, and have studied some about Hinduism. It's an interesting belief system. It's not my belief system, but it's interesting to me. I didn't really ask this question because I fear any God, but because I grew up in a place where many people used this phrase, and it was always something I didn't understand about the Christian religion. Since I am a Celtic Reconstructionist Pagan myself, and looking at it from the outside, I have to ask questions in order to understand, and understanding leads to tolerance. Thanks for sharing your opinion with me! I appreciate your response.

Thanks for your response. =)

*nods* That's kind of why I was asking people's opinions on this. As a non-Christian myself, I've never understood this, and always felt a little sorry for anyone whose relationship with their deity seemed so negative. I'm glad to hear through the responses here that not everyone really feels that way. =)

That is a very interesting way of putting it, and one I'm not sure I've heard before. Thank you for sharing!