Bring Back the "Good Wars"... not these Evil Wars like Iraq!

Arguments about why it started are all acedemic now. The war in Iraq isn't the same as it was then. Iraq isn't an exception to the war on Islamist Terrorism, it is the Epicenter of it. Bush Sr. made the fatal mistake of accepting a ceasefire, which he never should have done. Unconditional surrender is the only real end to war. The second Bush Sr. was suckered into that ceasefire, future presidents were doomed to finishing the job.

I agree we should have never got involved. In the eyes of the terrorists, we are no better than how we see them. We may have democratic nations, but how can we convince them that is what we want for them with our tract record. They think the US is there to control, just as Britain had done for years before. They will never accept us, and no war will change that. I did agree with the Afghan war, but every single thing we do just gives them more insentive to fight back, cause more terrorism so if this war is meant to erradicate terrorism it will never work. More and more young Muslim men want to join the fight against us every day, influenced by their clerics and parents and teachers to make sure we don't take control of their land.

That is why we must be prepared to fight them for as long as it takes to defeat them.

Yeah, well, it has been a long time since we have even trained for "Front line" conventional warfare. It really is a thing of the past. Don't be so quick to paint all our troops with such a broad brush. Yes, some of our troops have done some horrendous things that go far beyond the bounds of war, but when they have been caught, they have been tried for their crimes. That should speak volumes for us as a nation, unfortunately the incompetent press chooses to show their total bigotry here. Instead of using it as an example of how the system still works, they act as if every (or even a huge number) troop is just waiting for their chance to rape and pillage. The thing that makes me the most sick is, when the enemy does it, the same press and people make excuses for it... forgetting completely that not only did the individuals commit these crimes, but video taped them, and bragged about them. So, remember that while not all our guys are as honorable as we'd like to think, to the enemy horrendous acts are career enhancers.

Oh yeh, sorry that's not what I meant but I see how what I said seems like that. I was drawing comparison with the way the Islamic Fundamentalists fight and how the Nazi Germans fought. I may be wrong because I wasn't there but at the risk of sounding neive or ignorant the way we are tought about the war makes it sound that both sides, even the Germans, fought with some credibility. Not all, ofcourse the higher ranking Nazis were terrible people. But just like ours, their soldiers were good people, just caught in the next attempt to build an Empire at the time. When we look at what we are up against now, they don't seem to fight with such dignity. Bombing cities and planes and trains packed with innocent people that have welcomed them into their societies - handed out benefits to them and their families. These people are vermin and bring shame on Islam and the billions of other decent people who follow it. Our men have done some terrible things but 99% of them are decent people and like you said it would be wrong to paint them all with the same brush. With regards for the ones that have done bad things like making the detainees pose for pictures and so on, I don't make excuses for their actions but it's so easy for anyone who has never been in their postition to condemn their actions. War is a terrible place that only I can imagine - it's bound to make people do things they wouldn't normally do. Despite whatever I think about the powers that took us to Iraq and the decisions they have made, I would never speak bad against our brave troops that serve out there, and have served us in the past. I know nothing about what they have to experience so I wouldn't have any right to.

Yup, back in the "good wars" bombing cities wasn't considered a crime, it was expected. The general policy for bombing a single factory was start dropping bombs 100 yards before the factory and quit 100 yards after the bomber cleared the factory.

To paraphrase Mr. Miyagi in Karate Kid... "Either you war do "yes" or war do "no." You war do "guess so," SQUICH... "just like grape. Understand?" The other side is fighting a total war...

Exactly, leadership has nothing to do with figuring out the popular thing and doing it... In fact, there is NO leadership in the kind of person who does so.

So we should have just allowed Hitler to carry out his goals?

then you are wrong for the holy Jihad is in order to obtain a muslim world and it has nothing to do with iraq it is what mulims aRE TAUGHT TO DESIRE AND AIM FOR

I don't believe that Islam wants to rule the world......perhaps they just want to rule their own little bit of it. Aftertall it was america that went into Iraq to 'liberate' it from its dictator.

War is like any other innannimate thing. War is niether good nor bad, it just is. Was the U.S. Revolutoinary war a good thing? 2/3 or the colonists didn't think so... but a lot of us are glad it happened. Was WWII a good thing? Ask the people who aren't living under Nazi tyrrany. People say "peace" is a good thing too. Is it? Nope, just like war, it is neither good nor bad. There is no war in our worst ghettos, but is there peace? I repect anyone's right to be a pacifist, but every pacifist needs to accept the fact that they enjoy that right because someone else is willing to defend it for them.

Oh, I know what's going on in the ghettos of this nation. I ran ambulance in Atlanta and Milwaukee. Yes, there are shootings and the occasional bombings, but my point is, there is no "war" there, only crime... but is there "peace"?