Socialism: Charity for the Lazy

But the people of those countries aren't getting full coverage either. And when you hear of 10,000 people dying from a heat wave in the US come talk to me. I'm not talking about pure anything here though since, as you point out, it doesn't exist. In fact, I do support private socialization. I've known devout socialist who moved into communal living situations and loved it. What I'm talking about is how forced socialism robs the human spirit and dictates who is worthy of help and who isn't.

To be honest, the PURE socialism never existed - it's an utopia and can never become reality. And what Lenin & stalin tried to apply, and what we, for example, had here in Poland... God, never again. Really, socialism is not a good option to choose.

True. In fact no economic system can exist in its pure form. As pro capitalism I am, I do see the importance of government intervention when it is needed... but only as a fix, not as a permanent situation.

Yes, Atlas Shrugged and Anthem are both great books warning about the dangers of socialism. From one who lost everything in the name of "equality".

Actually, there are millions of dollars in private organization funds available to the needy. No one need go without treatment because of money. The objectives of socialism will always be hijacked by those placed in charge of deciding what is "excess" for someone else. I am a big supporter of private communal living situations where the people involved have the choice to participate or not. However, government socialism robs the people of the freedom to choose.

Actually in the US there are many organizations that do just that. Billions are available to people in need. I'm not saying we shouldn't be donating our money and time to help other people, in fact, I'm saying the opposite. It is OUR job to take care of each other. Sitting around demanding the government do it is just plain laziness. One of the many problems with government handouts is, as soon as people get on them, they lose a lot of the private donations they have been recieving. Another problem is, people who do see the need to help often stop helping once the recipient is on government assistance. It is assumed that the person doesn't need their help anymore. The fact is, the government is the worst at putting dollars to charitable use. The programs that exist are bloated with layers of bureacracy and only a small fraction of the dollars allocated for aid actually make it to families. You also make the very false assumption that crime is linked to poverty. Sorry, but reality doesn't support that. Criminal behavior is a personal choice, not a result of income.

Actually there are many organizations set up to help. Some of them even end up with a surplus because not enough people applied for their aid. When given the choice we are actually very willing to help.

My bad. The government and others have to do this because if it were left to regular people, there weren't be as much money to give out, Why? We are too self centered. Crime is partly choice and partly necessity.

When I see a socialist society create opportunity instead of hold people down, I might start agreeing with you. Under capitalism, the U.S. does have poor, but all but the extremely poor still seem to gain weight and have a few toys to show off. On the other hand most our super rich were middle class just a couple of decades ago.

Yes, the government does tell me what I can and can't do, medical care wise. Actually, I am disabled and on both social security and VA disability. I have no problem excepting social security, since I paid into it. I have no problem accepting VA disability because it was part of a contractual agreement between me and the government when I enlisted. What I am talking about are government programs that require nothing from the recipient. Something or nothing is caustic to the human spirit.

Well, the US is far from unmitigated capitalism. It was a lot closer during the industrial revolution, but then again, we don't want pure capitalism anymore than we want socialism. That's my point, it is the responsility of the people to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Socialism robs the individual of that opportunity. The powers that be take the excess from everyone and THEY decide what to do with it. It may surprise you that Americans donated over $260 Billion in charitable contributions last year. Much of that money ended up as surplus for charititable organizations because not enough recipients came to use it. I do think of all the people who CAN'T do it for themselves and can't help but wonder something. If we just put the $260 Billion towards those who can't, and let those who just plain WON'T fend for themselves, there would be plenty to go around. Yes, we are free to give what money we want (or choose to not give at all), but much of what we would give is taken away in taxes. Right now, in Wisconsin over 1/3 of a mortgage payment goes to taxes, and it's going up. Let us keep our money and you'll see how much we are willing to give!

There are always strings attached to government handouts, both in the areas of privacy and activities. The government wants to know everything about your finances as well as a slew of other information that is none of their business. You may be suspicious of the agendas of private organizations for some oddball reason, but I am suspicious of government agendas and more specifically the agendas of the liberals in government who are determined to control every aspect of individuals lives. Since you obviously are not aware of it, this country was founded under the ideals that individual freedoms mattered above all else, and any attempt to undermine individual freedom is un-American, as are any ideas about incorporating Socialism into American life. You may not see individual liberties being eroded, but I and many other Americans DO see it. You claim Socialism is needed to raise our health and education standards, and that we are behind other countries that are more communist (socialist)than we are. You have it backwards... the reason our county has slipped in education is because of the liberals and their social engineering schemes tampering with our educational system. As a result, our children are not as well educated as they should be. We used to be among the leaders in education until the socialist liberals started their tinkering. Socialism is what destroyed our educational lead. As far as the standards of our health care compared to socialized health care, our system, with all of it's flaws is still much better then those "enlightened" countries that you speak so highly of. The government has proven time and again that it is nowhere near as adept at handling anything as what the private sector is. Why do you think the private sector has so many government contracts?... It because the private sector does a much better job then a bunch of bureaucrats can. I read the book Brave New World back when I was still in school, and I find your use of it quite interesting. It tells me just where you are coming from.

Oh well. We're not going to agree. I think your position is more extreme than mine. I'm not really a communist sympathizer - just supporting socialist policies such as have been supported by a large part of the population for many decades. FDR's New Deal policies, for instance, successfully addressed very real problems, and were not an attempt to erode individual liberty in any cynical, underhand way. There seems to be an irrational reaction by some to any type of socialism, as if it automatically makes the US akin to an eastern bloc authoritarian state. When in reality some degree of socialism is just sound government. At least that's my opinion and that of the majority of people in this country, including Republicans. There'll always be many different opinions as to how much socialism is beneficial, and which specific policies are counter-productive. But to say all socialism is evil, or that the government will only use socialist policies to control the population, is as bad as saying capitalism is evil, in that it erodes individual liberty by exploiting labor and makes wage slaves of the masses. The truth is some where between these extremes.