Families...can we talk about fathers now?
@Perspectives (7131)
Canada
December 8, 2007 10:20pm CST
After posting a discussion on mothers it felt only right to open the floor to discuss father's and their role within any family dynamic. My mother always said that mothers are the first women little boys know and fathers have the same effect on their daughters. I am very pro-women's rights because I still see a lot of inequality in a variety of cultures today. However, even more than gender based thinking I am 'pro human rights' and after writing and researching an article on men's rights and resources my eyes were opened to the fact that men often need more support than they are receiving. For example suicide rates are much higher in men. Growing numbers of men are disappearing and leaving home because they have no where to go to receive help when they need it.
While conducting interviews for my article one counselor at a men's resource center created a light bulb moment for me when he said, "What many women think ar men's anger issues are often deeply embedded hurt, disappointment and frustration that has no outlet. Men and their perception of manhood is a precarious thing...one where we often feel that we never have completely mastered. Loss of a job, inability to provide for the family, illness...all that can threaten our perception of ourselves as men and it can and often is a heavy burden to carry."
I had never thought about it that way before because no man had ever shared that kind of awareness with me. When I asked other women about this idea it was an epiphany for them as well.
So having upheld mothers in my other post I felt the need to uphold men and the invaluable roles they play in all our lives. For those fathers who work long and hard to make sure their families needs are met and are then condemned for being tired and not meeting the spouses and kids emotional needs I applaud you. To all the sons, brothers and male friends who do care enough about the rest of the world to go to war, fight crime and become firefighters I honor and uphold everything you do to add to the quality of life of people you will probably never meet.
Even though growing up my father was never there for me. He was an alcoholic and my mother and I lived with a lot of abuses. However, it was only after I embarked on my healing journey to health and wholeness that I came to understand and accepted my father's wounded-ness. To his dying day I never knew what made him do what he did...but when I began to understand that people do what they know I could grasp the fact that my father had been treated badly and he did not know how to show love and respect when it was obviously foreign to him.
In our work as life coaches we hear many heartbreaking stories about how father's shaped sons thinking and were role models whether they understood it or not. For me my father's abuses led me to the work I now do...so in the end his direct influence was not so good...but the outcome has been something that worked for my greatest good. For years I sought my father's approval and never got it...now I live live according to spiritual values that involve respect and a deep sensitivity towards those who are still within the circumstances that are thankfully behind me. So in my case my father's role had an impact...just not one I would necessarily have chosen...but I still learned a lot through our precarious interactions. From years of working in the self-development field I know from experience that this is so for all of us in varying degrees.
So...at this time of year when families come together to celebrate and share their history together I would be interested in hearing about your father and what his presence or lack of it did to contribute to your view of the world. There is no denying that our parents or lack of them contribute to our sense of self. Would you be willing to offer what your experiences were...or are with your father? Thanks in advance for those of you who decide to contribute...much appreciated!
Raia
4 people like this
7 responses
@theprogamer (10534)
• United States
9 Dec 07
My dad was always there for me. Period end of story. Not much to say on it. He supported me and he taught me things (like working damn hard for a family). I'd definitely be different or not even here without him.
As for fathers in general, Raia, there are so many attacks on fatherhood and so many examples of reducing fathers to walking money-machines... or they are reduced to oppressors... or they are reduced to abusers...its crazy!
I'll post a few examples. Pay note to comments too.
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1252
http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/10/ask_dr_helen_5.php
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1246
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1220
Just esamples. Plenty more out there.
3 people like this
@munhozmib (3836)
• Sao Paulo, Brazil
28 Dec 07
Hello, my friend.
I am more than willing to share my experiences. Thank God my father is still alive, he is the most important piece of my family, if we see it as a chess table.
When I was pretty young, he called my brother and me to the living room and said: "I want you both to grow. To grow and become more than I am right now. More than what I'll be. You understand?"
I said "yes", even though I had no idea about the world as I do right now. Those words, they really made me feel the want to grow, to be able to show him that I can accomplish the most important mission he has even given me, up to today. I am still under eighteen, you know?
I started to ask myself why sometimes, when I said something, nobody would believe me. And then, when I was trying to explain something to my mother and she didn't want to hear, he said: "Grow and appear". Those words burnt like hell inside me. I felt anger, I thought: "Why do I need to grow, we are a family!". Still, after putting a little thought on it, I saw that it was better to keep quiet and understand the lesson. That's the World the way it is, nobody will believe you if they do not have respect for you. Grow, and appear. Those words will be inside me forever.
Respectfully.
2 people like this
@munhozmib (3836)
• Sao Paulo, Brazil
28 Dec 07
Hello!
Thanks for the nice words. It feels nice to be chatting to you again. About that girl, I learned a lot from the situation. She doesn't love me, and sometimes we have to accept life the way it is. I tried to insist, but it was a mistake by my part. Sometimes, it's better to let the loved one free from pressure, and see how does she feels. She got a boyfriend, and in the meanwhile I think I made no progress, only inside me.
Do you have MSN or any other place where we can chat? It would be nice to share the news with you. Really.
Also, I am checking your blog right now. And don't worry, I never would stop using myLot because of that. I hardly get offended.
Respectfully.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
28 Dec 07
Hello...and how wonderful to hear from you again. I thought you were unhappy with my comments to you on that site where the husband was involved in some unsavory activities. After that you dropped off my radar. What a lovely way to end the year and to have a chance to catch up and chat again.
As I mentioned to you when your first came to share your perspectives on this site..I believe you are an 'old soul.' Your wisdom and insight goes way beyond the chronological years you have been around the sun. Your understanding and grasp of the larger spiritual realities of life are clear indications of that. If the wisdom your father...and indirectly mother have contributed to that...then they have done a good job. However, you are also to be commended that you are taking what they offered you, integrating it and making it a part of your own value and belief systems.
I often wondered how things worked out with you and the situation with the girl you love. If you'd care to share where you are with that I have often wondered about how you worked that out and how you are doing now. Hopefully you found a way to harmonize things.
Hope to hear from you again...but in any case I sincerely wish you a new year full of more of what you wish for yourself.
Warm regards,
Raia
I don't know if I mentioned it to you or not...but I have a Blog where I post ideas and previously published articles...your comments would be as welcome there as they are here.
The address is:
http://pohl-perspectives.blogspot.com
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
29 Dec 07
Yes, it is good to be back in touch...and you are welcome for the words...I say what I mean...and mean what I say. On sites like these I accept that people drift into each other's lives and away..and then drift back in again. Good to know you were not offended. What you have probably picked up on by now is that my soul path and work that I do is based on spiritual principles of truth, understanding, compassion and respect for differences. When I validate people that is the truth as I see it....when I do not agree that is the truth as I see it. Not that I am right about anything...but I trust my right to speak as I see fit as long as it is done within the 'respectful dialog' framework I mention so often here.
Thanks for your interest in my Blog and I appreciate you checking it out. I do have an on-line chat address. With my work I am not always able to chat when people are on-line and their message pops up. If you want to try and I am available I'd be happy to chat for awhile. My address is raiastar99@hotmail.com.
In regard to your approach to your love interest I must commend you on showing a lot of emotional maturity in letting go and moving on. No one can force another and if they do force their will they are breaking the God given right to choose. Having free will is an amazing gift...and it is up to use to learn to use it wisely and accept responsibility for the cause and effect of our thoughts, words and actions.
So I have to run now it is my birthday new year's eve and my hubby David and I are heading back to our old home town to celebrate it and the ending of the year with close friends.
Talk when I get back..celebrate life...it is amazing thing!
Raia
3 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
20 Dec 07
wow its been 2 weeks since you posted this and I have been wondering what to say about my dad that I havent put in other posts. WHere'd the time go?!
My dad was the oldest of 6 kids. HIs mom left the family when he was 13 and he took over to help his dad raise the other kids. He learned to sew cook and shop. at the age of 14 he was working in the copper mine in Utah.
as was his dad . and they worked in different areas but when grandpa found out he raised heck with the foreman The forman thought my dad was 21 at that time lol after that he had to saty above ground and do the layout of tools and equipment.
He was a very serious thinking person most times didnt know how to relax and have fun we could pull no jokes on him as he would get mad.
That was while we were growing up. Later he loosed up some and pulled some funnies himself.
He didnt want me to be scared of anything like when I was six and a horse threw me he made me get back on and ride. After that I always wanted myown horse never got one tho lol.
I can say I was daddies little girl I was everwhere with him under cars ,working in the yard,helping him when he added 2 rooms on the back of the house ( I could drive nails better than my brother lol)
I was the only child that he told that he had been married before (thats when he didnt want me to marry A***ole)
Never remeber him really giving me any advice other than that about life. He was hard working and provided for us.
With a 10th grade education he ended up beening a Jet Engine machanic. also modifide a tool for the F-16 that the Air Force took and patents it but he never got paid for it . That sort of mad me upset . He taught me alot of things to be dependent on my own and not anyone else. Said one time thats the only person ya can count on really is yourself.
I could go on and on of what he did but that would take a book. He passed away in 93 of a massive heart attak in the hospital the very day he was to come home from the hospital I think they shouldnt have gae him that extra dose off potassium!
this is it hugs
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Dec 07
You are so right about the, "Wow where does the time go" comment. Couldn't have said it better myself...especially at this time of year. I can barely grab a few minutes to check in here, do some comments and a few responses and touch in with valued friends like you.
It is really good to hear more about your relationship with your father. It sounds like a good one and that he had a good influence on you and your outlook on life. I love to hear about daughters who were 'daddy's little girl' because I had a small taste of that when I was younger with my dad...but then when the booze became a higher priority in his life all that changed.
Your father sounds like an admirable man, hardworking and capable of applying himself and moving forward towards the achievement of his goals. His teaching about learning to count on ourselves is true...when all is said and done others may assist us...but the choices we all rest with us.
Good hearing more about your family history...fills in more blanks as our friendship continues to grow.
Will be looking for news of how you made out at the doctor's yesterday. Will be checking e-mails after catching up here.
Hope your holiday plans are progressing well. We are doing good here...David says hi and so do I.
Love and biggies hugs, still gentle of course! (smile)
Raia
2 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
21 Dec 07
well I just wrote ya an email and then I look in here and get this so I wont say any more about the ddoctor here lol
. I think my dad might have drank before he married mom I know he quit smoking before he married her.
I dont rmemeber even seeing a drunk person till I was a teen and then a bunch of us would go park on the street where all the bars were and watch them throw the drunks out the door of the bars they were so funny to us for they all thought they were really straight oh my.
I am the only one in my family tha smokes and drinks dont know why I just like it lol I picked it up after leaving home.
am goin g to go lay back down as i am still sleepy its @ am hugs and blessings to you both
3 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
29 Dec 07
I wish your father hadnt been that way but some just cant handle it.
myself I never had trouble with drinking .untill this operation I have drank almost every night since 1985. Still had no problems with not drinking but I do want to party new years lol and I will just dont know how much!
hugs and blessings
2 people like this
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
9 Dec 07
Hi Raia,
After a long time. I saw your discussion topic in my mail and here I am.
I was always close to my mother, and never could relate to my father. He was very affectionate, generous and extremely large hearted, to everyone. He was an amazingly intelligent man, and was a very successful professional--so successful that the district court in our place decided to honour his memory by including his photograph in the court chamber as a mark of respect to his genius and contribution to the field of law and in admiration of his career.
He had a very successful practice with four junior lawyers, and many clerks working under him. He had a wonderful memory and excellent command over the language.I always held him in great admiration but at a distance. Money was not his primary concern and it was the challenge of the job.There were a number of poor people who had a good word for him.Unfortunately, in hindsight I realise that my mother had a big role to play in this- IN MY MENTALLY TAKING UP HER CAUSE AGAINST HIM --she passed on her equation with him to us children and I was not objective and mature enough to cross a few barriers against him. He did try, but I never could participate in any heart to heart chat with him.
His successful career received a rude knock when he was afflicted by paralysis just two years after my brother passed away in a road accident at the age of 17.
My father lost the use of one side of his body and his speech. He recovered and valiantly fought against his illness for 18 years when he was extremely self reliant, courageous and stoic about the loss of his career and capacity, and full mobility.This is a lesson that I have learnt from him. I was fortunate to be by his side for more than ten years and served him to my best ability right till the end. But, even then much of my sympathy was directed towards my mother than my father,[in my heart] She was taking care of him diligently and I gave a lot of moral support to her.
I attribute a lot of my skills, assurance, determination and many good qualities to my father .I always loved to hear about his professional skills and have listened in awe and admiration to the anecdotes narrated by his junior advocates. It still thrills me when someone recounts his photographic memory and extraordinary generous gestures to some of his clients.
I could have definitely seen things from his point of view but I never did it--my perception of the negative vibes between him and my mother made me view him with a jaundiced eye. I was wrong. As a father he was a wonderful man and gave us extraordinary comforts and financial stability that helped me lead a life of luxury all through my young life and even now the significant impact is there. I need not have superimposed my judgement on the relationship between husband and wife. it was their personal problem.
However, I take solace from the thought that I was with him all the time when he was bedridden and sick and when he passed away. I should have spent more time trying to chat with him when he was ill, but I used to say a few words and just spend all the time chatting with my mother. He was totally self contained and did not expect anything from me. I wished to be like him in my profession where I would work for goodwill more than money and I succeeded. I thank him with all my heart for this.
2 people like this
@cwilson26 (2735)
• United States
29 Dec 07
My dad was around but he could care less if I was around or not. I don't hate him for it but instead I have learned from his mistakes. He has always been a bitter person and blames everyone around him for things that go wrong in his life. When I was a teen ager he didn't care who I was with or what I was doing. It was my mom who was always there for me and it was her who was always grounding me for getting into trouble.
Anyway because of my dads actions and the way he has treated me almost all my life, I have learned to be thankful for what I do have and not to worry about what I don't have. I have also learned to take responsibility for my own actions and not to blame others for what happens in my life. So I have turned all of his negativity into a positive in my life. Of course whenever I am around him all I hear is negative stuff but I just tune it out. I still love my dad though and I don't blame him for the way he is. I blame his parents, my so-called grandparents for how he was brought up. The only thing is, I wish he would have learned from their mistakes instead of turning out just like them. Well I guess some people never learn though and I feel really bad that my dad is not happy with his life. I wish there was something I could do to make him happy but no matter what happens, even if it is good, he turns it into something bad. Great discussion, as always. :)
1 person likes this
@bast09 (20)
• Canada
5 Jan 08
Sorry to hear about the rough time you had with your father. I respect your final conclusions about what you learned about yourself and your life from it all. I am not at that point. I also have had a lot of abuse from my father and I have not been able to forgive him or forget. Yet in an odd way even with all the pain I still long for a healthier, more loving relationship with him but I doubt that will ever happen.
@remo999 (49)
• Canada
5 Jan 08
I have pretty much the same reaction to this discussion as the one you posted on mothers. I cannot comment on fatherhood or my relationship with mine because he abandoned our family when I was too young to remember. My wife often asks me about how I feel about not having a dad and my comment is always the same and that is you cannot miss what you never had. I put it to her in the same way she cannot say what it is like for her not to have siblings. She is an only child and has no real framework for what it is other than what the reality is. Not there and nothing to miss.