What's wrong with conscription?
By 4ftfingers
@4ftfingers (1310)
December 11, 2007 2:04pm CST
I strongly beleive that we should bring back conscription, or rather national service. Conscription is quite military specific and a lot of people protest militarianism. But there are many other ways to give back to your community, ie nursing, teaching, working for the council, or working in the trades.
Many countries do have national service, one example would be Germany, where I visit quite often. It doesn't surprise me that the kids here in the UK are generally more bratty, lazier and more self-centred. It could be down to many reasons but I reckon one is the fact that they have national service and we don't.
I know people who have come back from university in the summer and are still on benefits now because they don't know what to do with their lives, or they're waiting out for the perfect job. They would rather claim benefits and do nothing, than do a job that they concider to be below them. And it's our system that allows them to do that, as long as they are seen to be seeking work they still get their money each week. So the system should be changed, but also I think some forced labour wouldn't go a miss.
So much crime is caused by bored, jobless youths. School is not for everyone, many would just rather not go. If that's the case, make them do plumbing or mechanics or another trade and they might find that it actually interests them. But you can't ask them nicely to do it, there needs to be a system where it is mandatory.
What are your feelings about national service?
4 people like this
6 responses
@Sungolian (377)
• United States
11 Dec 07
The conscription is unnecessary in many countries. In the U.S., there are already very many people in the armed forces even without a draft. The military here offers to pay for people's college education and gives good health insurance and retirements, etc.
Why would we have a draft if we don't need to have one? Maybe if World War III ever broke out, then we would have to revert back to having a conscription military.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
12 Dec 07
I'm not just talking about military service my friend, this is about serving the community. Military service is just one option. The idea is to give more youths direction and purpose.
@Sungolian (377)
• United States
14 Dec 07
You said CONSCRIPTION in your title. Not public service.
This is the exact definition of conscription from www.dictionary.com
conscription
1. compulsory enrollment of persons for military of naval science;draft.
2. a compulsory contribution of money to a government during a time of war.
You addressed conscriptions, so I did. What else do you expect?
@lordwarwizard (35747)
• Singapore
12 Dec 07
I am not trying to be personal here but I can't believe I am hearing this.
I am a victim of conscription. I served 2.5 years in the army and have to be called back every year for weeks to months in all. All because of the barbaric, uncouth, deplorable practice of uncivilized slavery.
From the government's point of view, conscription is a thumb-up. I agree with the many merits it brings. But how about the victims who don't have a choice? Not everyone is sheep who like to be led around like a cheap w-hore who pays to be whored.
Pardon my strong language for I have the most abject disgust for this sub-human policy. I am a victim by birth and having suffered the days of hell, I have every right to say what I said.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
12 Dec 07
You absolutely have the right to say how you feel and your view is valued just as much as anyones, so thank you for it. I'm sorry to hear you feel yourself to be a victim of conscription.
But I think my use of the word 'conscription' was a bad choice. My focus is NOT on military service alone, and that is why I chose to use the phrase 'national service'. As I said, for those who could not serve in the military, there are many many other waya to serve your community!
And I don't know what military life is like in your country. But it must be very different to what it is here, because I have a number of friends in the military, as was my father and they would never describe it as uncivilized slavery.
1 person likes this
@lordwarwizard (35747)
• Singapore
13 Dec 07
Hello pal :)
Yes, they call it national service here. But what's in a name? You can't hide the truth. :P
You are in the UK? Those you know joined the military voluntarily - they were not conscripted right? If I was given a choice and I agreed to join it 100% voluntarily, I think I would love it as much as them too.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
14 Dec 07
Yeh I see how I've made it confusing. By national service, I'm talking about serving the nation, in not just the military sense. Jobs such as working for the local council - for example, gardening and maintaining public land, working for public transport etc.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Dec 07
Hello 4thfingers,
It would seem that we are actually talking about mandatory community service, rather than a military draft. I will gladly share a USA perspective on this question.
I support mandatory community service, as long as serving in the military remains a voluntary option to fulfilling one's obligatory service. There is no question that an all volunteer military is a superior choice. If I were 'in the trenches', I would definitely want a volunteer covering my 'six', rather than a draftee. Viet Nam taught us unforgettable lessons about the dangers of a draft.
Among "The Greatest Generation", or WWII era folks, many were emotionally prepared to marry & begin raising a family in their late teens. I don't see that so much today. In fact, our daughter & son-in-law are 20 & 21 respectively. They've been married for over two years, and have a three month old son. Yet, they face great challenges with their marriage and parenting, not because they're unfit, but because our societal norms are 'out of synch' with life's important values. Our daughter is beating herself up trying to figure out how she can: go to college, work, and raise her young son, all while our S.I.L. is deployed on an aircraft carrier. She might be able to accomplish all of her goals if there were 48 hours in a day. Short of that, she's going to have to establish her priorities and focus her energy. Yet, she's struggling with the reality that she cannot have 'it all' -- right now. Yup, that's the immediate gratification thing that plagues so many of our youth.
Today, teens have an unlimited array of choices, that many are not equipped to make. They're also growing up with very little structure. Case in point: USA High School administrations have undertaken (over the last five or so years) to adjust the daily academic schedule to meet the unhealthy sleep patterns of undisciplined, unfatigued teens. In years gone by, kids would have been exhausted by 9pm. They would have woken up early to perform chores, walked to school, played, then done more chores & homework before retiring to bed. Today, they barely make the school bus because they stayed up too late watching t.v. or playing video games. They get very little exercise, because too many childhood games have been deemed 'a risk to their self-esteem', they have few chores to perform because we have tools to do the work -- like dishwashers, clothes dryers, and vacuums (not that I mind these fabulous accouterments). Yet, the point remains that our comfortable lifestyle has left a void in too many young peoples consciousness about hard work, how it builds character, and offers a real sense of satisfaction when one lays their head on the pillow each night.
There is an unwavering truth in life. It is: Sometimes it's easier to figure out what you do want to do by first learning what you don't want to do.
Many 18 yr. olds head off to college without having any practical idea about what they want to do for the rest of their lives. A mandatory one or two year community service program would probably be a great aid to young people today. There's little doubt that they would garner some ideas about what they don't want to do -- and they would also learn that genuine success requires learning lessons that can only be obtained by starting at the bottom.
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
24 Jan 08
"Forced labor"! OMG! 4ftfingers, you did not suggest such a thing! You do not want to take us back to Capek's "RUR" - "Rossum's Universal Robots", which indeed mimicked social realities in the 1910s Soviet Union!
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
11 Dec 07
I agree, 4ftfingers, that all young people need to be directed toward having a goal in life. This comes easy for some, but it is almost impossible for others. When they had the draft, I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing. Many went into the armed forces and made successful careers from it. Among those who did not wish to choose it as a career, they were assisted in improving their lives once they left the service. It is important that young people live a life of purpose.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
14 Dec 07
Exactly, direction is the key. I'm not too interested in whether the military will gain, we already have powerful militaries. I just think this woudl be the best way to stop yougn kids falling off the tracks, which is a big issue because you hear about yobbish behaviour everyday in the news. It will lower crime, and it will bring ethnic groups together, hopefully that will curb classism and racism. And like you say, there are great careers to be made.
@lancingboy (1385)
• United States
12 Dec 07
The youth in your country get benefits? How does that all work out? That's a new one for me.
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
24 Jan 08
Lacingboy, the USA have similar programs known as welfare and unemployment benefits. All these people have to do is show the Texas Employment Commission aka Texas Work Source (if they are in Texas) that they are seeking work, even if they appear to have been seeking work for years. Funny thing though is that, those who have actually worked or are interested in working and truly need assistance for a while are often given a hard time in receiving these assistance - as if the people are encouraged into dependency or wards of the government.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
12 Dec 07
By youth, I'm talking about the adolescent like myself, from 16years and up, old enough to work. We get job seekers allowance, and all we have to do is send them letters to prove that we are looking for a job. Which makes it far too easy.
@lancingboy (1385)
• United States
13 Dec 07
Wow, I wish they do that in America! If they did, we probably wouldn't have the crime rate we do with teens and young adults. I know that system is flawed, with a lot of the people not searching for a job and just taking the money, but I would've welcomed that allowance. That is better than having to give everything you own up if you can't find a job and end up living on the streets.