I am gay, so I know I am going to hell...

I did actually ask him, and I thought I heard him say something about a practical joke. But that could have been indigestion. I had a bean burito for lunch and the sour cream did taste kind of off.

Well G♥d doesn't have an answering machine, just because He doesn't answer right away, doesn't mean he didn't hear. Take time and be serious, if you want the truth, then ask and you will get the truth, but don't expect an outright answer like man gives you...

yes, but i got his answering machine and i really feel uncomfortable leaving messages on answering machines.

Maybe Hell isnt a bad place? Maybe its like a spa where we all sit around in bathrobes and get massages and manicures and sip little drinks with umbrellas. Maybe the church knows this so they tell everyone its bad so there is more room for them. I will say one thing. I can only HOPE I get my neighbors next to me in hell. She is a very sweet lady and I love her dearly. Hopefully Hell really is warm so I wont have to shovel her driveway anymore. Not that I mind, of course.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. I'll save you a burning pile of sulpher right next to me! God bless, Tee

Your selfishness with your own time is further evidence that you are damned and doomed to go to Hell. Congrats! See you with boat drinks by the river Styx. It's kind of smelly, but if you just take a sip you'll forget all about that.

I dont understand....... .....huh?

Oh yes. The bible says that women shouldn't teach in church and that they should obey their husbands.

If you are a female, then yes I would be concerned about your soul. We just cant have free thinking woman walking around. Does this look like the 21st century to you?? For shame. I'll bet you even wear pants sometimes. Boooo.

I cant take all the credit, Cyntrow showed this to me in another discussion and I just had to post it because it bears repeating. I find it funny (but not surpriseing) that none of my "adversaries", the bible thumpers, can come up with any retort. By the way, is that you in your icon picture? It looks like yoga to me, and my boyfriend is very into all that eastern thought stuff. He tries to get me to do it with him but I usually end up laughing and ruining the mood. Not that I dont respect it, I really do, I just like to make him laugh while hes trying to inhale his ohms.

Yeah thats me. I've been doing it for a very long time. Its a wonderful lifestyle. Sounds like you have an Interesting Bf.

It's called sarcasm. Did you read the whole thing? And for the record I wont be going to hell since I dont believe in it. I was merely pointing out the blatant hippocracy in people who take the bible word for word as the undisputed truth. Thanks for the reply! Tee

But in judging gays, they always refer to leviticus. So it's ok to ditch the rest of the Levitical laws but not the ones that may or may not pertain to gay men. How's that for hypocracy.

Agreed friend. Sure enough if you wish to see hell go no further than your local Drag bar. Hopefully I'll get a townhome in the classy distict of Hell with Davinci, Socrates, Ghandi and all the other educated heathens.

I have to admit, I'm curious about the challenges of being gay. When do they put you on the spot? In the real world (as opposed to online)? Do people just come up to you and tell you that you shouldn't be gay, and why? The rudeness of people just blows me away sometimes. People do that to other..hmmm minorities as well... can't think of a better word right now, but I mentioned up above..sorry i'm posting in two different places on this discussion now. I did that once before, it gets kind of crazy. but it just amazes me that people think they have the right to tell other people how they should live their lives.

Thank you for the response! My mother is a "recovering catholic" as well, so I know how that goes! I hope you read the discussion. Its actually very interesting to watch people try to defend their bible. It feels good to not be on the defensive for once. I'm so used to them putting me on the spot for being born gay. Its fun to turn the tables on them sometimes. God bless!

Ever since I was in 9th grade it was common knowledge that I was gay, and a common occurance to be targeted for it. I didnt come out of the closet on my own. I told who I thought was a friend of mine, and she told EVERYONE. But that was a long time ago, and the challenges I have faced since then have dimishied the initial betrayal. Over the years its gotten easier, and kind of second nature to block it out. I have also learned alot about peoples personalities, and I'm usually able to detect before hand if someone might have a problem with my lifestyle so I can be mindfull to not make it an issue. Trials? Every day. And I'm not saying that other minorities dont face them... I know they do. As a white man, I feel more comfortable in a room of black people than I would in a room full of white people. Black people I have noticed will be weary of me at first because I come off as a preppy white dude. But as soon as they find out I am gay they treat me like one of the family. Its the most amazing thing and I cant explain it but black men especially, when they find out I'm gay they suddenly relax and treat me like a brother. It's like we have a common wound, inflicted by the same group. The black community is the gay communities strongest ally. They have been down that road of oppression, and generations of humiliation and shame. They have fought the battle that gays are fighting now and they understand what we are going through.... even if we cant possibly understand what they have been through. As for daily trials... oh lets see I could give a couple examples. My boyfriend and I were denied an apartment. The landlord didnt say outright that we cant have it because we are gay but when we called back to tell him we wanted it he said it was already taken. We drove by a couple weeks later and there was still a for rent sign in the window. My boyfriend Brian actually had to cut off communication with his entire family because of the abuse. His mother was the worst. She actually left his a voicmail a few months ago telling him that she was dying because hes living with another guy. I know it sounds absurd... imagine what he thought when he heard that. She was serious too - she really believes that she is is going to die because he is gay. His grandfather called him a failure and said his father obviously didnt discipline him right when he was a child. I mean the list goes on. But at the end of the day we try to focus on the love we share and the love my family gives to us. They have welcomed Brian into the family and a gathering wouldnt be the same without him. I really am fortunate to have such a great support network. But not everyone is that lucky. I think about all the kids and teens who kill themselves, or drop out of school or are homeless... all because of this ignorance and hatred for gays. It's not right... and they need to know there are people out there who know what they are going through, and care.

You missed the point entirely. Levitical law does NOT apply to us. Absolutely correct, but in condemning the homosexual the bible thumper will cling tightly to Leviticus 18 and 20, while eating a ham sandwich I might add. And for the record, God does not believe that homosexuality is a sin. Only man thinks that.

I appologize for missing your point, it is always easy for some hate group to take a few scriptures and twist them to fit their agenda like the anti homsexual "christains". We all have some sin in our lives why some want to focus on other peoples lives instead of cleaning up and worring about their own lives I don't know. At one tim Gahnde read the bible and he belived, he went to a missionary church in africa to be baptised. When he got there he was turned away becouse he was a "black man". He later sateted "I would have been a christian if I would have never met one." Thank about this, If he would have become a christian and went back to India to start his movment what would India be like today? Sorry I missed understood your post, it seemed like an atack on all of Christianity useing old Judaic law. But now I understand that you were just pointing out why do they not live under the other laws that they want to quote from, peace brother.

AMEN, and pass the steak sauce, all this talk about killing bulls and cows is making me hungry!

Remembering the holier than thou christians who are always trying to change you is like remembering the southerner you saw on TV saying "Did you see that UFO?" while the rest of us are just shaking our heads and praying that they won't talk about their cousin Bubba being abducted!

I hear the scales in canada are tipping conservative again, so you can keep the poloticians. However, if you are thinking of any last minute christmas gifts, feel free to ship Bryan Adams down to me with a big red bow!! God bless!

My post is directed at those who feel the bible is the end all, be all, absolute authority with no room for discussion. If you are not one of these people then you have taken this topic too personaly and that was not the intent. You obviously have a good grasp on yourself and your beliefs, and at the end of the day thats really all that matters - for anyone. But you cant imagine the fight I have fought over the years... and continue to fight every day. I'm not saying that People walk up to me and call me a sinner every day (it has happened, though, with some amount of frequency), but the judgment is still there... the obstacles are still there. I say you cant imagine because you really cant and thats not your fault. You arent gay. But my whole life people have hit me over the head with this book... telling me thier version of how God sees my life. Sue me, if I want to turn the tables on them for once, nd hold up a mirror. You are right, acording to the bible everyone is a sinner. This discussion was a way to point that out. So you actually, understand, all unknowing. I meant no offense to yu as a person, but if this discussion hit a personal chord for you, I invite you to ask yourself why that is. Because I dont have that answer.

You take the hit for being gay, I take the hit for being christian. A few of the gay men I have worked with over the last 20 years would find out I am a christian and automatically be on the attack, constantly telling me why the bible was wrong or why they thought I was a fool for believing in God to begin with. I am just as tired of being referred to as hateful, judgemental, hypocritical and so on and so on...Everyone has their cross to bear. I really did not intend for my original post to come across the way it did, I was in a bit of a hurry. My intent was just to point out that we don't like being lumped into a big group and judged either.

Okay, re-reading my response, I realize it didn't come out as I intended. It is okay for you to believe what you want about God, but don't call me hypocritical for what I believe about God and the bible. Then it becomes you who are judging me. And no you are not twisting the wording of the scripture, but you are using scripture to call us hypocrits. Isn't that your complaint? That people use scripture to against you? I believe that the law is there to show us that no one can keep it, therfore no one can get to heaven without accepting Jesus as their savior. If you'll read my post below you will see a little more detail on that. And no, I can't tell you why believing being gay is a sin without my bible. That is where my belief system comes from and it is how I interpret it. But I believe homosexuality is a sin the same way I think my smoking is a sin. It will not send you to hell, a relationship with Jesus Christ is our salvation, and we can only change the things that He convicts our hearts of. I have many gay friends (I'm a hairstylist and there seems to be a lot of gay men in the business), I don't condemn them or even tell them of my beliefs unless they ask. I have a very close friend who is a gay christian, and he is always on me about how smoking is a sin (thats why I keep refering to it). We are able to discuss our beliefs with eachother without any hatred or calling eachother hypocrites. I agree with you that there are many christians who attack gays and feel the need to tell them they are going to hell, and yes that is hypocritical because we ALL have sin in our lives (pot calling the kettle black kinda thing). But for you to attack my beliefs is basically the same thing. All I can say is don't lower yourself to the same level.

I would take your advice.. but the opposite is so much more fun!

The law is nothing but works, and works won't get you to heaven. I believe the law is there to show us that none of us can make it to heaven without Jesus, no one can keep all the laws. Jesus came to show us a better way (a better way then the law). All He asked of us is to follow Him. Seek His will not your own. You can't find a list in the bible that tells you exactly how to live your life because God has a different path for each of us to take. We seek His will, we change the things in our life that He convicts our hearts of, not the things someone next to you in church thinks you should change. And as far as using common sense goes, I refer to Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and Lean not on your own understanding." It's about a personal relationship with God, accepting His will for your life even when it doesn't make sense or goes against our own will. The bible is not flawed, mans understanding of it is because we are awful busy trying to make the bible fit our lives.

Maths887...I'm curious about your view of the bible. While I don't believe being a homosexual can send you to hell since salvation is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I do believe it to be sin (same as my smoking is a sin). Doesn't believing that the bible is inherently flawed, leave it open to picking and choosing which parts you want to believe? Which basically means you are creating an idol that fits your image of what you want God to be. In 2 Timothy 3:16 it says "All scripture is inspired by God..." yes it was written by man but under the guide of His Holy Spirit. If God is in complete control of the everything then I don't believe He would allow His Word to be corrupted by man.

I have trouble creating a personal relationship with God and strictly interpreting the Bible. I have been seeking a personal relationship with my Lord, and with the relationship I have felt and come to the conclusion that some things in the Bible are wrong. If you believe the Bible isn't flawed then every time your Priest sins, I hope he brings a bull without defect to God as an Absolution-Offering. Because that is what the Bible says. Shouldn't he do that then? If you impulsively swear you must bring as your penalty to God for the sin you have committed a female lamb or goat. You should not cut the hair on the sides of your head or trim your beard. You also shouldn't wear clothes woven of two kinds of material. I hope all your clothes are 100% cotton!

Gays can't change any more than straights can. Why do people insist that this is possible? There are many groups that preach conversion therapy and not a single one of them can document any case of true changing in attraction. All they have is re-closeted gays. So now they go from being honest about their sexuality to lying about it. Which is really the sin?