Socialized Health Care: Are Democrats Right? Is This the Answer?
By mehale
@mehale (2200)
United States
January 21, 2008 5:13pm CST
Are Hillary and Edwards right? Is socialized medicine the answer to America's rising health care costs and problems? I have to admit that I don't like the idea of the Government being able to tell me I have to go to a doctor or do something with my body. On the other hand, health care is a rapidly growing expense that more and more Americans can not afford. I am not sure what the answer here is...however, this did not work in England, so what makes the Democrats so sure this will work in America? Is this just one more step in moving America closer to a socialist / communist government? What are your thoughts on this issue?
2 people like this
8 responses
@bravenewworld (746)
• United States
23 Jan 08
I don't believe the proposal is for a system like Britain's NHS. There would be no new government-run health care provider. However, there would be universal health insurance coverage, in the form of new plans providing affordable options.
For many people that cannot affort health insurance the emergency room is their health plan. Providing affordable insurance will encourage preventative health care, which should bring down health care costs, as well as making for a healthier population.
'Socialized health care' is just a phrase coined by conservatives as a scare tactic. They would rather spend money on fences, bombs and tax breaks for their cronies.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
21 Jan 08
First class medical care free at the point of contact is the mark of a civilised country
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@mehale (2200)
• United States
21 Jan 08
While I agree that everyone does need medical care and insurance, I am not so sure that any plan that requires you to go to the doctor - even if you are not sick - or requires you to have tests run, etc is a good one. After all our bodies do not belong to the government.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
23 Jan 08
Well, it's a bit odd if they tell you that you have to go to a doctor, certainly it doesn't work like that in UK.
Secondly, I am appalled by the level of ignorance displayed by responses to this post.
The National Health service worked well in UK for a long time till Tory Governments deliberately ran it down over a number of years. This coupled with introducing a stupid culture of the internal market that multiplied bureaucracy caused immense harm that the NHS will take a long time to recover.
It has been claimed here that nationalised health care doesn't work in UK or elsewhere, well the NHS has its problems but even as it stands it works better than the awful US system, that leaves a huge number of its population with little or no health care or lumbers them in debt.
The French health system works well.
That it should be viewed as a move towards communism demonstrates a laughable and tragic distortion in the perception of the American citizen.
No amount of sophistry along the lines of freedom of the individual, free market economics, etc. cuts any cake here. Without health care you are not in a position to look out for yourself.
From a European perspective it makes America look like a backward third world country.
all the best urban
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
23 Jan 08
I am quite shocked too. But clearly, whoever named it 'socialised' health care must have had the intent of scaring the Americans away from the idea of a universal health care system. Whoever/whatever it was must be also feeding these people these odd and interesting lies about universal health care.
@Lindalinda (4111)
• Canada
21 Jan 08
You are not going to like my answer, but since this is a discussion forum I feel free to express my opinion. I find it totally shocking that the richest nation in the world cannot provide affordable health care for its citizens. I think Hillary and Edwards are on the right track. I also notice that in the state of Massachusetts it is now mandatory to carry health insurance. You say it has not worked in England. I am sure there will be glitches and pitfalls but there is a safety net for all people. Don't you find it odd that most Western countries such as Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway Sweden and a few others have a health care system and yet they are not communist countries. I live in Canada and we have universal health care, are not about to become communist, are your friendly neighbour and largest trading partner and do not feel our freedom is threatened because when we get sick we know our hospital and doctor's expenses are paid for. By the the way the Government does not tell us when to go to the doctor, in fact they are glad if we stay away because there are long waiting periods for some procedures which we can get done in a flash if we have the money to go to the USA and pay for it ourselves.
1 person likes this
@Lindalinda (4111)
• Canada
22 Jan 08
I am sorry I cannot be of much help to you. Each province in Canada (like you have states we have provinces) run the health insurances. For instance I live in Ontario so for me it is the Ontario Health Insurance Plan. Since I am retired I am automatically covered. I can go to any hospital or emergency room or walk in clinic and show my health card and get treated. People in the work force either have the premiums deducted or the employer pays it for them as part of the company's benefit plan. We do have to pay for certain things like eye exams and co-pay for physiotherapy but I believe the fee for physio is very small. The last time I had physio a few years ago the co-pay was $5.per session. By now it must be more. If you want a private room or semi-private you pay the difference yourself which can be expensive.
My son is also a private contractor so he pays the premium directly to the Ontario Health Insurance Plan. I don't know how much it is but since he is not complaining I guess it is bearable. On the other hand his wife is going back to work in September after the baby is a year old. She gets employment benefits for one year and job protection for one year. After she is back to work she can insure her family through her employer.
Sorry this is no help to you since we live in different countries. Best of luck to you.
1 person likes this
@mehale (2200)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Actually, in a way I do agree with you. My husband and I are independent contractors and therefore do not have employer provided healthcare - we are considered self employed. On the other hand, we have checked into several different insurance companies many times, and really cannot afford the coverage. I do agree that insurance should be made redily available and affordable to all Americans. I am just not sure how to go about it. Plus I have heard rumors that Clinton does have socialist ( and possibly communist ) inclinations; I am not sure if that is true or not but it does make me wonder. Did not mean to offend you and sorry if I did...:)
Since your country DOES have a government healthcare plan, could you tell me more about it? Also what would be a good thing to look for in a candidates healthcare plan, and what would be a red flag to avoid them? Thanks for the info...
@mkirby624 (1598)
• United States
22 Jan 08
I'm confused about the socialized health care's details. Would this health care be required for everyone or would people who already have health insurance through their employer be able to keep that insurance. I have blue cross/blue shield state insurance and it is excellent. I wouldn't want to give it up for anything. I have my deductible that I pay if I ever need to go to the doctor (and I rarely do), I have an excellent prescription plan. I only pay $18/month for it (I teach in public schools) for myself. It's excellent, there's really no beating it. I wouldn't want to have to give it up for some crap job health care by the government. I want the choice to choose better health care for myself and my family, like BC/BS.
1 person likes this
@mkirby624 (1598)
• United States
1 Feb 08
Well, after watching the debate last night, Obama's health care plan sounds better than Hillary's. His is a voluntary one, and quite frankly, if people say "We don't want insurance" well so be it. When they go to the emergency room, tax payers shouldn't have to pay for their medical care, those people should be put on a payment plan like the rest of us!! When my insurance doesn't cover everything, we pay the rest off in monthly payments. If you choose NOT to take advantage of the health care, that is your own d*mn problem. Be that way.
I don't like Hillary's because she cleared up my question up there. She said "If people already have insurance, they won't have to participate in my program right now if they don't want to" which makes me think that EVENTUALLY, we will ALL have to use the government health care plan...maybe not right now if we are already insured, but eventually, they'll abolish private health care and we'll all have to switch over to socialized. No thanks.
1 person likes this
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
22 Jan 08
Since socialized health care is not working anywhere else except in Scandanavia why do they think it will work here?
The plan Hillary has, will basically bankrupt the US if we aren't already. Medicare and Medicaid have been ripped off by other Government programs and been given IOUs which is ludicrous.
Where do these geniouses plan to get the money to finance these medical wonders? It will just give the corupt doctors and hospitals that many more chances to rip off the system. HMOs are bad enough.
Shalom~Adoniah
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@4ftfingers (1310)
•
23 Jan 08
May I ask who told you that socialised health care doesn't work in any countries except Scandanavia, where is this information coming from? Because my information says otherwise.
If you look at the World Health Organisation's ranking of the World's Health Systems:
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
And then look at a map of countries by their health care system:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/WORLDHEALTH2.png
You will notice that that of the 36 countries with better health systems than the USA, most of them are European countries. On the map you will see that almost all European countries have socialised health care.
So to me that says universal healthcare is working, and privatised health care is not
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@urbandekay (18278)
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23 Jan 08
Yes, have to say I couldn't believe it when I read that about nationalised health care only working in Scandinavia, where does that fiction come from?
France for example has an excellent health care system
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@mehale (2200)
• United States
22 Jan 08
You are so right...HMO'S were a joke from the get go. I also have been wondering WHERE they plan to get the money to fund this program. After all social security, medicare, and medicaid are already almost broke! I wonder if they have even considered this...
@DaFatalGigabyte (16)
• United States
22 Jan 08
Socialism is an economic system where the means of production are owned by the society. Communism is a social organization where wealth is shared by the society. But these are petty sentences. Socialist is also used to mean for the people, rather than the private. Liberal can mean the movement against the stealing performed by the conservatives, capitalists, religious right, whatever. This is done with social programs designed to help the poor and the workers. The poor, those not bought by a pompous capitalist, are helped with programs that hand them money after taxing from the richer. The workers, who are shanghaied into ownership by a capitalist because of economic conditions, are helped with demanding better conditions, higher wages, and absolute benefits. The land, wealth, power, and the people's liberty was stolen a long time ago. Liberals are those trying to take it back. Like Anarchists are trying to take back that last one, most liberals these days are trying to take back the first three.
I'm an Individualist Social Anarchist. I want to see the state go by evolution, not revolution sort of. I think all our revolutions have led us to a better world, so picture a spiral of revolutions going down to a point of a finally prosperous Anarchy. Socialism is inherently for the people. The socialist programs that distribute wealth properly are doing their job no matter what: taking back what was already stolen and is still being taken away. In that case if socialism must come, so be it. I know all revolutions are evolving us closer to a beautiful world in the future. Later we'll find that 1/535 control over our own life(at least 535, maybe add all those rotten capitalists), and with direct democracy at least 1/300million control, is just not enough. But I don't worry about that now.
A little insight: We want universal healthcare, a better tax system(BTW the FairTax is going to be more stressful than what we have now), an improved social school system, and less corruption in politics. What order do you think the government bogies in Washington will do these in?
1 person likes this
@DaFatalGigabyte (16)
• United States
22 Jan 08
I'm not good at explaining myself fully lol.
If we have universal healthcare, the nation goes bankrupt, period. If we go bankrupt, we lose our freedom. So what I'm saying is that it drives us to revolution. So if you don't want revolution, try your best to lose the laws. That's where I get my 'I don't care' position because of my views of revolution and evolution. It's going to happen while we're controlled by politicians.
I know most people don't want to hear about revolution and the idealism of an Anarchist. I also use weird meanings for liberals and conservatives. There's so many definitions for them.
So my position straight up is "I don't care. It's going to happen while idiots run the country." My views on how society should be run, decentralized, is against universal healthcare. It's merely a means to an end, haha.
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@4ftfingers (1310)
•
22 Jan 08
I don't like the phrase 'socialised medicine'. I think it's a phrase that was probably coined by a Republican, because socialism is a dirty word in the US.
I'm not American but I think nationalised healthcare is a necessity for any democratic nation. This way no price can be put on peoples lives, and big insurance giants can't profit from people's wellbeing.
I don't think it is at all necissary for people to have to go and see their doctor on any sort of regular basis. But I think the fact that if I wake up one morning feeling unwell, and I can go and see my doctor and he can give me a diagnosis just like that and I don't have to concern myself with any sort of costs is a big credit to my quality of life.
1 person likes this
@mehale (2200)
• United States
22 Jan 08
You do have some very good points there. It does have a good side to it. However, I can't help but wonder HOW they would manage to pay for such a healthcare plan when our buget is already in serious debt. I have yet to hear any of the democrats mention how they would finance their health care plans. This does bother me.