Entry Points to the Spirit World
By Leca
@lecanis (16647)
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
February 29, 2008 5:32am CST
Most religions that believe in travel into the spirit world or between the spirit world and this world by either humans or other entities have some version of an "entry point" into the spirit world. It can be a physical place (like Celtic barrow mounds) or a mental image (like climbing, falling, following a path), or a spiritual place that is believed to exist between realms. I know there are at least a couple of others on this forum who practice some form of shamanic or spiritual journeying, so I was hoping to have a discussion about these entry points.
The most common traditional entry point I can think of is the idea of a "world tree". There are several different versions of the world tree from different cultures, but most seem to share the idea of being able to move to the Upperworld by climbing the tree or the Underworld by following the tree's roots.
When I first started learning shamanic journeying, I used images like spirals and stairways. I've also used the "world tree" image, like many. However, I was given another image as well... a sort of personal spiritual sanctum that could be a stepping-off point into the spiritual world. My version of this is a forest, with many paths that lead to different spiritual realms and places, and a clearing with a temple in it. When I say this place was given to me, I mean that it originally was used by someone else, who took me there in a guided meditation and invited me to use the same imagery in the future.
So for those of you who do some form of spiritual or shamanic journeying, what is your entry point? Is it a traditional one from your religion, one passed down to you by a teacher, or something entirely of your own devising?
7 people like this
12 responses
@sudiptacallingu (10879)
• India
29 Feb 08
Wow lecanis, when I started reading this discussion, I thought it was about the regular entry points between the two worlds which all religion speak of, but it turned out to be something totally different and very interesting. Well I have no idea of any shamanic journey or anything like that. All I know about is that according to hindu beliefs, there is a river flowing between the two realms and after the end of the soul’s journey in this world, it has to cross the river to gain entry to the other world.
3 people like this
@sudiptacallingu (10879)
• India
3 Mar 08
Well after reading your discussion, I goggled for shamanic and what I read was (I feel) somewhat similar to hindu tantric beliefs. Such beliefs and practices are still to be found in our obscures villages and are dismissed as superstition and regressive influences and to be very true, people practicing them do tend to do more harm than good by virtue of their ‘supernatural power’. While people like you maybe searching for such old religious beliefs by personal choice, in underdeveloped areas of the world, such beliefs are more like a curse on the unenlightened people than a means of soul-search. Anyway, just goes to show that there are so many hidden similarities between all the races throughout the world. I also likes this discussion coz I learnt something new.
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
3 Mar 08
There are a lot of similar beliefs throughout the world when you can look at different cultures side-by-side objectively like that. I've always found that really interesting. That's part of why I started this discussion: it amazes me how many different cultures have some form of spiritual journeying or spirit world, and how similar some of the beliefs involving them are.
You have a good point about the problems of superstition. There are a lot of places in the world where it does a lot more harm than good, and often people keep from getting medical or other care they need because of it, as well as bowing to ridiculous laws or leaders who abuse such fear to stay in power. When similar beliefs (such as mine) are "reconstructed" within a modern context, a lot of those things wind up changing to a certain extent, thankfully.
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@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
1 Mar 08
From what I can tell, everywhere and everything is an entry point... seriously.
Many natives used drums and mental canoe's. There is the tunnel, or the hallway. The thee u mentioned and I could go on and on.
I think really the best portal is yourself. What you are talking about, to me sounds like an inward journey. At least you are using your own mind/body/spirit as a gateway to somewhere else which is much different from an out of body experience.
Interesting topic.
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
3 Mar 08
*nods* I've had out of body experiences as well, and I can get what you're saying there. I guess I was looking at the "inner journey" thing you were saying as saying that it is traveling into one's own consciousness but not into any kind of spirit world or plane. It makes a lot more sense now that you explained it that way.
Out of body experiences are harder for me that shamanic journeying. :P
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
1 Mar 08
You have a good point... everywhere and everything is an entry point, or can be.
I see it more as using myself as a gateway, given what you're saying. I don't see it as an inward journey because I actually believe the things I encounter in the spirit world are separate beings, some of whom have actually been human beings I know who talked with me about the encounters later... meaning we met in the spirit world and both remembered it. Also, I do actually feel like I'm no longer in my body once I'm there, and attempts to rouse me fail, even physical ones that should be painful.
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@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
2 Mar 08
I totally understand what you are saying, and really I think we are saying the same thing just the terminology is getting in the way.
A lot of the journey's are inward, basically using yourself as a gateway.
OOB's are a bit different (i've done both) where you essentially are still in this world, just not in your body. Like you leave you body and are looking down at it and then go where you go, do what you do but it's still this plane and not a different one... Catch my meaning?
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@scammerwear (1433)
• Singapore
4 Mar 08
I use a bridge to get into err... 'home base', if you will.
For others, I create a door and draw a symbol on it, representing where I need to go. I don't really like that method though, its a little tricky cause you can't really see what's on the other side till you're halfway through. Not very pleasant if you are stepping into 'hostile country'.
Been a while since I stepped over though, don't really find the need for traveling, save visiting the boss. Maybe I should start again :)
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
4 Mar 08
It's interesting how you have one method for getting to your home base and another for going other places. I hadn't thought of that, though when I'm in a hurry and going somewhere familiar I don't visualize or create anything, just "step"... only to the most familiar of places, though.
I was reading the bit about the doors and thinking "wow, that's great" until you pointed out the flaw with it. Not a good thing to suddenly wind up in hostile territory, no. That's one problem I have with a lot of the modern pagan authors and such... they often say everything in the spirit world is happy to help you and kind, which isn't necessarily the case. Being careful is a good thing.
I don't know how much I need to travel, but it's a major part of my life. I might be a little escapist in that way, but traveling helps me deal with my mental and physical problems better by being able to take time away from them.
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
5 Mar 08
Okay, you've lost me a little here. G.D.? Maybe I'm just sleepy, but those letters aren't ringing any kind of bell with me. Could you explain?
Heh, I tend to walk around shielded, but I don't have enough ego to think my shields can take care of everything. I've met things in the spirit world that could squish me like a bug. :P
Oooo, that's a very good idea for something for the authors to do! We'd definitely either have a lot better books or a suddenly much smaller pagan community. *giggles*
The temple in my forest sort of serves that way for me. I'm the only living person that goes there anyway... the guy who showed me that forest in the first place sometimes shows up, but he's a nice ghost. :P
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
6 Mar 08
Duh, now I feel stupid. I've known a few people who were Golden Dawn actually, it just didn't pop into my head when I was reading for some reason. Like I said, I was sleepy. ;P
I tend to shield to some extent because I do have a bit of a bad history with wandering in the wrong places, and some of the more prankster spirits I deal with get me in trouble sometimes. Still, I know what my limits are, and when I get in over my head, I know who to call on, and when to bail.
I did some zen type meditation when I was younger. I still do it once in a while, but it's pretty rare for me these days, unless I really just need to clean things out.
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@theprogamer (10534)
• United States
5 Mar 08
My entry point is just a world, but I've seen trees and lakes or oceans serve as the point. The few times I meditate I see it, and I get to see it in dreams sometimes. Whenever I'm near it, I either remember something I almost forgot in my past, or I'm shown something completely unknown. Now why is this important? I believe higher aspects of the mind and the spirit can be responsible for certain dreams, thoughts, perceptions. I've actually had multiple instances of "future-sight" deja vu. I don't call it the obvious due to the fact they happen either in the meditation/dream or in the real world only seconds or minutes before the event happens. I find the spirit/higher-mind can access such things. If its not that believable I get it, but remember I also access long hidden memories too in such a fashion. Things I thought were completely gone, somehow back. Other things I failed to remember, somehow brought back. The events are rare, but they happen and some imagery does happen (world overview, tree or lake, along with the memory/event at hand of course). I will drawback and bring up the rational though. Its possible that the whole thing is just the result of dreaming (or meditative sensory dep) only and its all just coincidential. Still, I consider there maybe something else going on here.
If anyone wants more on my thoughts I have a discussion of the self
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1360501.aspx
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
5 Mar 08
I like the way you put that: "future-sight deja vu". I've had that as well, and I think it's a very good descriptor for it.
Your experiences make sense to me. Thanks for sharing!
Oh, no, not drawing back and bringing in the rational, pro! *laughs* I should have known you'd have to do that. I suppose since my spiritual stuff has been a part of my life for so long, I no longer stop to think about it in rational terms, which perhaps I should more often. I just think that there are parts of the human mind and spirit that science hasn't explored enough yet to give proper light to these phenomena, so it becomes hard to be scientific about. I can't accept the idea that these things don't happen because I've had enough personal proof, but I figure other people can just make up their own minds.
I glanced at your discussion, but I'll have to delve deeper in it when I have more time. Have to get ready for work now!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
1 Mar 08
I have no idea but I will be watching this discussion. I really want to learn about this topic. Thanks for posting it. By the way, it's on the way to you. :)
2 people like this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
1 Mar 08
I definitely understand what you say. I have read some books and it's just better to hear things from real people who have experienced things.
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@winterose (39887)
• Canada
1 Mar 08
I am sorry I do not know anything about this but it sounds so fascinating I look forward to this discussion.
2 people like this
@humbleme (1004)
• India
1 Mar 08
Hello lecanis,Thanks for your interesting discussion.The
entry point varies from person to person according to his/her levels of meditations achievements(not in certificates from any spiritual schools in papers but in his/her practice and achievements in reality),there are basically two sort of meditation the first that is common and popular in mass is for mental relaxations breathing etc, and the second is spiritual meditation that you have written about , and this stage of meditation actually is the begining level of advance meditation done after several years of scientific training and practise from a Master spiritual guru/teachers under his strict continous supervision as this sort of meditation needs multiple combination of techniques during this journey, also you need lot of restrictions in your diet menu and lifestyles,yoga sitting postures and a lot that your teacher is definately guiding you now.I wish you best of luck and wishes from my behalf.
For other readers I just want to say please
dont try yourself these things if you dont have proper
spiritual meditation training history under any Master/Guru/Monk.You can have two effects, the first one"You wont achieve anything and your time will be
wasted for no reason just by dreaming in illusion." and Secondly " You can experience severe damage to your own mind,health as well to your destiny!" So visualise easy happy images and incidences that gives you mental happy soothing feelings along with deep breathing exercises,and this will not harm you anyway,therefore always follow the popular mental relaxation meditations and courses and its best to keep you mentally fit all the time.
Please please dont get me wrong anybody my intension is not to discourage or scare anyone, but this is my opinion, also I will not debate on this with anybody further,please do what you feel right,and I respect everybodies opinions,experiences regarding this post.Thanks
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
1 Mar 08
Humbleme, I find it interesting that you think I have a master or guru. I first learned my spiritual methods from my great-grandparents, and also another relative, but none of these people are alive to guide me now. I have spirit guides and Gods, but definitely not a "guru".
I don't think any of my teachers would have called themselves a "guru", although one of them was a medicine man, and another a very talented herbalist and witch.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
2 Mar 08
I am glad you are so willing to offer other perspectives to things. I think I mentioned to you before that my grandfather was born in Wales and was the 7th son of a 7th son. His 'channels' were very open and my mother was the same way. He was also a member of the Rosicrucian Order and assisted mom in opening her awareness to spirit realms. She was a gifted clairvoyant and I grew up feeling the veil between other realms was thin. Thanks to my upbringing and genetic roots contact with the spirit realm was not something I have had to work at...it was always just 'there.'
When I do want to go somewhere other than where I have been before I always ground myself through breathing and centering. Sometimes I use my drum when I want to take a Shamanic journey. Other times I go deep within my own energy field and then begin walking through mountain passes until I reach a domed Crystal temple. There are other techniques that I use depending on where I want to go..or what my reason for journeying actually is. There are times I have journeyed to offer assistance during catastrophic events globally...other times it is by request for someone who is asking for energetic support...
I am familiar with the 'world tree' idea...it is an a common portal for those studying 'tree of life' teachings from Judaism and the tarot. Through our various chats Lecanis I have gathered that some of our views mirror each other. I appreciate discussions like these because they offer ideas other seekers that we are all explorers on a journey through mortal illusion to immortal Truth. Thanks for putting it out there for consideration.
Raia
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
3 Mar 08
Yup, I remember you mentioning that about your grandfather. It sounds like we were both lucky in terms of having gifted family to learn from. My great-grandparents and a cousin of my great-grandfather's were my early teachers in these matters, which was fun for me because then I did get both an Irish/Celtic and a Native American perspective.
It's always just been there for me too, at least as long as I can remember. When I was very young, I did a lot of training to learn to control what I was doing there more, but I never had a problem connecting to anything spiritual. In fact, I have the opposite problem: staying in the physical world and dealing with physical matters is VERY hard for me in comparison to the spiritual. I have some pretty good ideas why, but you probably know enough about me that I wouldn't have to tell them to you.
There are a lot of the "world trees". The ones you mentioned, the Norse Yggdrasil, etc. It's interesting how the same idea goes through so many cultures.
1 person likes this
@lancingboy (1385)
• United States
1 Mar 08
I'm not sure it's the same thing, but when I am sick I imagine myself in a field with a greek style gazebo-type thing in the middle. The back of it is like a recessed room and the front is open with columns and benches. I like to imagine myself with Isis sitting there rubbing the spot that is troubling me and healing me. It takes a while to fall asleep when I'm sick, but I feel a little bit better.
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
1 Mar 08
I couldn't really say if that's the same thing or not, since I'm not you. It does sound like it could either be an inward meditation using Isis as a symbol or drawing on her energy, but it could also be an outward journey where you actually seek Isis. :)
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@Foxfire1875 (2010)
•
29 Feb 08
I'm not sure if it is an entry point to the spirit world but I do have an inner sanctum that I retreat to so that I can recharge my batteries and it is a large Scots pine tree but I've never gone beyond this.
I use a colour/chakra meditation to calm my mind then visualise in all details the tree and surroundings.
I have used guided meditation tapes, which sounds more like what you are suggesting but haven't met a spirit guide yet.
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
29 Feb 08
Your inner sanctum sounds a lot like the entry point idea I'm talking about.
Guided meditations are sort of like what I'm talking about. They do basically lead you on a journey, but don't give you a lot of room to explore on your own most of the time. You might have more luck finding your own guides if you start out with a guided meditation and then continue to explore from there instead of stopping or coming back at the end of the suggested meditation.
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@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
29 Feb 08
*nods* I don't think I've ever used those tapes on my own before, but I've been in groups that used them, and they really don't seem to give you much time to explore. If I'm leading that sort of meditation, I do the beginning part and establish a setting and goal and everything, but instruct everyone beforehand that at some point I'm going to just step out and let them continue on their own. It seems to work well.
I wish I had more time right now. My spirituality has been pretty much at the center of my entire life since I was a little kid, and lately I haven't had as much time as I'd like for it.
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@Foxfire1875 (2010)
•
29 Feb 08
It does have that built into the meditation but there isn't a lot of time given to that part, as it is only 1/2 hour long.
I'll try next time to go further, as I should have no problem returning without the tapes guidance or maybe just take my meditation further and see what happens. I've kinda been neglecting my spirituality of late but as I've no excuse these days, as I've more than enough time to devote to it.
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@sutanhartanto (4122)
• Indonesia
2 Mar 08
I afraid that is just a hallucination. I always think that there is other world. What so called the spirit world maybe only our mind-created. If a man die, yes, his "soul" will leave his body. The "soul" is actually the bodiless mind. Since it haven't found another body to "use", it will be unknown, unseen, unrecognized entity. It cannot do anything, because it need a body to perform an action.
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